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Mr James Kelly.. A Serious Jack the Ripper Candidate?

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by SeventhSeal
 


Oh, well if that's true then my mistake, lol.

I don't claim to be an expert on this case and that image was claimed to be one of James Kelly from more than one source so I assumed it was genuine.

Thanks for pointing that out though! I'll ask a mod to change it as my time limit is up.

edit on 5-12-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by george_gaz
 




However, I will need to see this end of life confession and study it in greater depth. For someone who was quite open about his prejudices and mission I would have thought such a confession would have been more indicative of his crimes.


I'd love to be able to look through the whole thing myself admittedly, not just because I'm curious about what else he said in there which may tie him to the ripper but so I can verify the claims he's said to have made already. Unfortunately though I can't find anywhere online where the entire thing is listed. It's frustrating to say the least.

Now this obviously isn't what you was looking for, and in case you haven't seen it already as it was listed in my opening posts, but there's quite a few references to this "confession" in this documentary here. I've seen it in full and It's pretty interesting so It's worth a watch.











I'll keep searching online for information on the letter he wrote though. I mean there's bound to be some information about it somewhere though, surely.
edit on 5-12-2011 by Rising Against because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Absoutely top notch detective work RA.
Being a Londoner and a big Sherlock Holmes fan, Victorian era crimes have always interested me and the Ripper murders particularly. I have heard all the other theories regarding the real identity of the Ripper and the case you make is very well researched and presented and more importantly - very convincing. I will have to follow the links you have posted and research this very seriously because I think you may have hit the nail on the head.
Thank you for the effort you have put in to this exceptional thread.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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I'm more of a fan for James Maybrick.
a second line, however I'll state that the OP has done a tremendous amount of work for this post, which should be commended highly.

Yours Most Truly.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:20 PM
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Finally got through it all and i must say again well done.. good research and great presentation.


I actually learnt alot about the case that i didn't already know after reading that... And your theory is entirely plausible, you may actually be on the money there.


I dont really have much more to say because the pieces do seem to fit together and although we will never know for sure.. I am leaning toward Kelly being the main suspect..



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 


Another brilliant and thought provoking post.

Your posts truly make ATS worthwhile.

(PS: I knew a James Kelly at school, It was, and is, a very common Irish name).



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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S & F my friend...

In my early teens I grew fascinated by the Jack the Ripper Case . Now in my early 30's I have completed extensive research & have even travelled to London to go on the The Jack the Ripper tour in White Castle. While in London I also visited the British Library, they have I think the most extensive collection of Ripper information on the planet, including original newspaper clippings on the case.

While researching I was introduced to Mr. James Kelly, your research I would say is just as extensive as that in which I read while in London. I also read a phenomenal book called "Prisoner 1167: The Madman Who Was Jack the Ripper" & have viewed the "Ripper in America" documentary.

As stated in your research Mr. Kelly was suspected by the Metropolitan Police however they did not act upon their suspicions. To me there are four reasons to suspect Mr. Kelly; He was a diagnosed Paranoid Schizophrenic. He had shown himself capable of murder with a knife. His reasons for murdering his wife were his belief that she was a prostitute and had infected him with VD, upon breaking out of Broadmoor he would almost certainly have realised that the real source of his infection was the prostitutes of Whitechapel with whom he had consorted.

Personally I don't think this case will ever be solved that is unless somebody comes forward with a blood stained trench jacket & they can pin that back to either victims or to Mr. Kelly...However Mr. Kelly is as prime a suspect as any of the other ten main suspects.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:57 PM
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Great thread as always, though I was always under the impression that Walter Sickert was in fact Jack the ripper, but reading your thread really makes me wonder.

edit on 5-12-2011 by Nobama because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:35 PM
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This thread is absolutely amazing RA. First the usual S&F for another well reasearched and constructed thread.

Now for my take. I have some personal experience with Paranoid Schizophraniacs. These people are capable of most anything especially when they have a cause,either real or imagined. They tend to focus on that cause, especially when the source of that cause is of easy access. They will focus on that to the exclusion of everything else.

The real scary part is that the disease seems to express itself as episodes intertwined with interludes of what seems like complete normalicy. There is usually a trigger. In this case I would say that his escape coupled with his reexposure to the prostitutes in White Chapel would have brought about his desire to complete his heavenly mission.

His original murder of his wife certianly indicates that his fixation with "bad" women was probably his trigger. Then his return to the place of infection along with his exposure to the prostitutes who had caused it, may very well have sent him over the edge.

The fact that he turned up in New York in time to have commited the killing of Carrie Brown is most interesting. Since these people tend to be intelligent, I would think that he would have realized that he would eventually be caught if he stayed in London. Since he had means, moving on to America must have been very appealing.The America of the time would have been a perfect place to continue his depraved pratices. Please correct me If I am wrong but hadn't he been there before? If so then he knew that it would be a fertile ground to carry out his mission.

I think that the key to him being Jack the Ripper is that there doesn't seem to be any logical sequence to the killings. They seem random and for the most part unconnected. This would be modeus operandi for some one with this disease. The episodes come and go . When in the grip of one the mad part of the mind would be focoused on the mission and then the lucid mind would realize that the chance for discovery was increasing with each killing after the episode was over. If his veneral disease was syphillis then it could have added a dimension to his madness that would be unpredictible.

All things considered I think that you have really discovered the perpetrator. The killings and how they happened are exactly the kind of thing that a paranoid skezophreniac would do. I think that his move to America and the resulting killings that seem to follow him around is the icing on the cake.

Since in my experience with the disease the episodes, as they continue to happen can go on for longer and longer periods of time if left untreated. Certianly in those days there was no treatment.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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Superb post, excellent to read, and thought provoking. I have reading about JTR for some years now, and Kelly has come up more than once. I remember one investigator raising the question that if he was suffering from syphyllis he would not have lived more than ten years after the original infection as the cure (penicillin) did not yet exist. This would of course make his 1927 reappearance unlikely, perhaps some of our resident ATS medical experts could shine some light on to this for us. Once again thanks for a great thread.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 12:29 AM
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JAMES KELLY WAS MENTALLY ILL AND INSTITUTIONALIZED DURING THE RIPPER PERIOD... THIS IS DOCUMENTED FACT, YOU WASTED ALOT OF YOUR TIME ON HIM...

THERE IS ONLY ONE RIPPER... WALTER SICKERT // DNA FROM THE STAMP ON THE ONLY VERIFIED RIPPER LETTER, .. MATCHED TO HIS LIVING FAMILY, PROVEN , CASE CLOSED
edit on 6-12-2011 by

HE GOT MOST OF HIS INFO FROM CUTTING AND PASTING FROM HERE.. .THE OFFICIAL JACK THE RIPPER CASE FILE ...ON THE WEB..

JACK the Rippers CaseFile

MY OWN CUSTOM THEORY ABOUT JACK, ....HE WAS A HIRED HIT MAN... HIRED TO KILL SOME HOOKERS WHO GAVE SOMEONE VERY IMPORTANT OR RICH A LETHAL DISEASE...
THIS EXPLAINS MOTIVE, IT EXPLAINS WHY HE VANISHED, IT EXPLAINS WHY HE WAS NEVER CAUGHT, HE HAD NO DIRECT LINK TO THE MOTIVE OR THE HOOKERS, HE SIMPLY ...CAME, KILLED, AND LEFT..
A MUCH RICHER MAN FOR DOING THE JOB....

AS FOR JACK.. HE WAS BY MODERN STANDARDS, ..A WIMP ! ... THERE ARE NY PIMPS WHO KILL MORE HOOKERS IN A WEEK THAN HE DID HIS ENTIRE SPREE.... THE ONLY THING THAT MADE HIM FAMOUS WAS HIS LETTERS TAUNTING THE POLICE..AND THE EMBARASSMENT IN THE PRESS FOR THEM... THATS IT...PERIOD

edit on 6-12-2011 by FRANKBLACKmillenniumgroup because: (no reason given)
extra DIV



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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Mate, well researched! I don't know if you've nailed who the Ripper was or not, but your research is outstanding. We need more people like you contributing threads on here


Also, to people who come in and throw a couple of lines down about James Kelly not being a viable suspect without any reasonable explanation, I'm tempted to call out "pics or it didn't happen", because they seem like the same kinds of people who would use this tagline on other threads. Grow up ATS'ers, respect other people's work and opinions and agree to disagree, but don't become all incendiary about it.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by Rising Against
 

I’m only half way through, but I wanted to take a break and say thank you. I love reading your threads, mostly because I understand it, you don’t over exaggerate or use big words I need to look up, or sentences that need to be interpreted.
And I wanted say thank you very much for that.

love and harmony
Whateva



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 05:13 AM
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the letter recieved from philadelphia matches your theory, when did the murders occur in america? the letter is dated oct 1888 and mentions that he will be travelling to new york and when he gets there he will do a little ripping.

might be worth checking it out if you have not already. i would write what it says but i cannot find a decent link to the letter to confirm a source and the copy i have from the book i have is hard to read every word and i do not want to misqoute it.

good thread by the way, and great work at putting it together.

edit:



A letter from Philadelphia, US, signed 'Jack the ripper' (October 1888). This letter was sent from the USA and, purporting to come from the killer, threatens more murders. It is a good example of the international notoriety attained by the name 'Jack the Ripper' and the Whitechapel murders, demonstrating that the press coverage in the USA was extensive and affected the American public.


yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk...
edit on 6-12-2011 by lifeform11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 06:44 AM
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reply to post by FRANKBLACKmillenniumgroup
 




JAMES KELLY WAS MENTALLY ILL AND INSTITUTIONALIZED DURING THE RIPPER PERIOD... THIS IS DOCUMENTED FACT, YOU WASTED ALOT OF YOUR TIME ON HIM...


I didn't waste my time, I actually spoke about Kelly's illness, both mentally and physical, a great deal in my opening posts. It's what I used to tie him to the ripper killings in fact.


If you get a chance please at least take the time to read the opening posts before commenting (I know it's long but I added a guide to what's being discussed in each posts which can be found in the opening posts). Thanks.




HE GOT MOST OF HIS INFO FROM CUTTING AND PASTING FROM HERE.. .THE OFFICIAL JACK THE RIPPER CASE FILE ...ON THE WEB..


That's a lie. Everything that was copied has been posted in external tags like these below:



Text


I didn't copy and paste anything and pass it off as my own. Feel free to find any other paragraph and copy and paste it into google. You'll see it's my writing.



THERE IS ONLY ONE RIPPER... WALTER SICKERT // DNA FROM THE STAMP ON THE ONLY VERIFIED RIPPER LETTER, .. MATCHED TO HIS LIVING FAMILY, PROVEN , CASE CLOSED


From the website you yourself just linked us to:


Walter Sickert had been tangentially implicated in the Ripper crimes as early as the 1970s, with the release of the now infamous "Royal Conspiracy" theory. But it wasn't until the early 1990s, with the release of Jean Overton Fuller's Sickert and the Ripper Crimes, that the peculiar artist became a Ripper suspect in his own right. More recently, Patricia Cornwell has claimed to have found DNA evidence linking Sickert to at least one "Ripper letter".
(Source)

So no, It's not "case closed" just yet unfortunately.

Looking at James Kelly for example we know he was implicated in the plot right from the beginning in fact. The police was looking for him and actually saw him as a ripper suspect. This among lots of other reasons to believe he's a valid suspect, all of which are highlighted in my opening posts.

Btw I'd appreciate it if you could relax a little, lol. There's no need for all caps like that. I'm hardly shoving a theory down anyone's throat here, instead I found a theory that I personally found interesting and I thought it could make a good discussion so I threw it out there in the form of this thread. There's just no need to get so worked up.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by FRANKBLACKmillenniumgroup
JAMES KELLY WAS MENTALLY ILL AND INSTITUTIONALIZED DURING THE RIPPER PERIOD... THIS IS DOCUMENTED FACT, YOU WASTED ALOT OF YOUR TIME ON HIM...

THERE IS ONLY ONE RIPPER... WALTER SICKERT // DNA FROM THE STAMP ON THE ONLY VERIFIED RIPPER LETTER, .. MATCHED TO HIS LIVING FAMILY, PROVEN , CASE CLOSED
edit on 6-12-2011 by

HE GOT MOST OF HIS INFO FROM CUTTING AND PASTING FROM HERE.. .THE OFFICIAL JACK THE RIPPER CASE FILE ...ON THE WEB..

JACK the Rippers CaseFile

MY OWN CUSTOM THEORY ABOUT JACK, ....HE WAS A HIRED HIT MAN... HIRED TO KILL SOME HOOKERS WHO GAVE SOMEONE VERY IMPORTANT OR RICH A LETHAL DISEASE...
THIS EXPLAINS MOTIVE, IT EXPLAINS WHY HE VANISHED, IT EXPLAINS WHY HE WAS NEVER CAUGHT, HE HAD NO DIRECT LINK TO THE MOTIVE OR THE HOOKERS, HE SIMPLY ...CAME, KILLED, AND LEFT..
A MUCH RICHER MAN FOR DOING THE JOB....

AS FOR JACK.. HE WAS BY MODERN STANDARDS, ..A WIMP ! ... THERE ARE NY PIMPS WHO KILL MORE HOOKERS IN A WEEK THAN HE DID HIS ENTIRE SPREE.... THE ONLY THING THAT MADE HIM FAMOUS WAS HIS LETTERS TAUNTING THE POLICE..AND THE EMBARASSMENT IN THE PRESS FOR THEM... THATS IT...PERIOD

edit on 6-12-2011 by FRANKBLACKmillenniumgroup because: (no reason given)


Care to post some proof of what you say. I went to your link and don't see evidense of what you say. As for now I call fail and stop trolling. extra DIV



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 07:11 AM
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reply to post by lonegurkha
 


Thanks for that great post LG.




I think that the key to him being Jack the Ripper is that there doesn't seem to be any logical sequence to the killings.


Agreed. The killing of his victims don't seem to be chosen, instead most probably random. The way in which he carried out the killings however do seem to have some sort of order to them and it's that which, in my opinion, gave him the best possible odds of carrying it out and then escaping every single time - something which he perhaps realized and used to his advantage.

For example...

- All the killings were in the Whitechapel area of London but all were spaced out still - this can be seen with this image here:



- All the women were prostitutes and with the nature of their job they would've spoken to the ripper and made a conscious decision themselves whether to go somewhere quieter and carry out their job or not. They actually chose whether to go further or not - effectively they chose, unwillingly, what their fate would be.

- All were drunk (I could be mistaken when I say all but we at least know many of them were drunk for a fact).

If the Ripper knew Whitechapel well, which is almost a certainty, then he gave himself the best possible chance of literally getting away with murder. He chose his victims who were weaker than him yet at the same time he let them choose whether to serve him themselves. At the point of attack he attacked his victims very quickly but he gave himself the best possible chance still as his victim was already impaired through alcohol. Tie this in with the fact that the killer knew the area he was in well and his chances of carrying out the murder and then escaping greatly increase.

It seems at least some form of planning was done. I certainly don't think it's a coincidence that all the murders are spaced out as seen in the image above after all. I think he chose the area and then let the rest of the pieces fall into place. Whether this is Kelly we're talking about, who knows for sure, I certainly don't. But we do know he was one of those who knew Whitechapel well, especially the backstreets where prostitutes took their clients.. he used to be one of those clients after all..



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:59 AM
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Excellent thread Rising Against!

I became aware of James Kelly as a serious candidate after watching the documentary you included in your thread a few months back.

Out of all the "Jack the Ripper" suspects he appears to be the most likely in my opinion. The theory that he continued his killing spree in America and that there were at least ten victims seems plausible to me. I also agree with the researcher in the documentary that the victim found with an "X" cut into her could possibly represent the roman numeral for ten, indicating his tenth kill.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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This is one of the best quality threads i have seen in recent times which involves true conspiracy. You have done a wonderful job with this thread and justified the material. Lot of ATS good authors who used to create such good quality threads are no more with us but I'm glad you are still here.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by Beast Of Gevaudan
 


Hey there, thanks for the reply and the kind comments.




Out of all the "Jack the Ripper" suspects he appears to be the most likely in my opinion. The theory that he continued his killing spree in America and that there were at least ten victims seems plausible to me. I also agree with the researcher in the documentary that the victim found with an "X" cut into her could possibly represent the roman numeral for ten, indicating his tenth kill.


See, I'm not too convinced yet to be honest. Ed Norris makes a good case all in all but I'm just not quite convinced that Carrie Brown is, or could be, the 10th victim of James Kelly.. assuming he was her murderer.

I think I'm more inclined to believe it was either an accident (accident in the sense it happens to look like a cross) or who knows what else really. But I just don't see how she could be his tenth victim unless there's other victims we're not aware of... which is certainly possible.

Either way, I do think she was unfortunately a victim of the original ripper, whether he is Kelly or someone else even.



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