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a SCIENTIFIC explanation for crop circles, ice circles, etc..

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 02:34 AM
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When I say ice circles, I don't mean the disks that get cut out and spin freely, I mean 'crop circles' in snow. There are lots of historical reports of them, and the same with reports of symbols on the surface of water. I'm not about to look for pictures of them or crop circles because there is so much BS out there... but at the same time there are a ton of examples of formations that haven't been thoroughly explained.

This is my theory
;

A while back I was looking through an encyclopedia and came across an entry about "Lissajous figures." I'll copy the shortest explanation I can find...


The generation of Lissajous figures on a cathode-ray tube is a common method of frequency comparison. A source of known frequencies is connected to one set of deflection plates and the unknown frequency is connected to the other set. Where one frequency is a harmonic or integral multiple of the other, a stable and recognizable pattern is displayed.


These are a few common lissajous figures, there are obviously a crap-ton more, and it'd be easy to compare them to some crop/snow formations...


My theory is that the earth acts as one deflection plate, and the moon acts as the other, and the crops/snow/water act as the sand does in the videos above.

We know the moon's pull affects tides and gravity and all kinds of other stuff when it passes over parts of the earth, and I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think it would affect other stuff, and occasionally match the frequency/layout of something, forming giant lissajous figures in the sand, dirt, plants, water, etc...


The first thing most people would say is; "But how would that in any way be capable of physically bending stalks?"

Well we know that in some formations, the bends of the stalks show signs of cavitation/heating...

from an article someone wrote on graham hancocks website titled "Is Sound Creating Crop Circles?"...
He's talking about sound being behind the formations, I'm saying it's the moon. Either way, it's frequency/vibrations...

www.grahamhancock.com...

Below 20 Hz sound becomes infrasonic, and such frequencies are directly involved with biological processes, and here lies the direct connection to crop circles. When combined with high-pressure, the acoustic power of infrasound boils the water inside a cavity, in this case the water inside the plants’ stems. In laboratory conditions this action occurs in one nanosecond. As water heats it expands, and a close look at crop circle plants reveals tiny holes in their nodes where this superheated water has blown outwards. With a hollow cavity near the base, and the stems made subtle like molten glass by the heat, the now top-heavy plants collapse into their new horizontal position.

Since this action (called vapor cavitation) creates local temperature increases of hundreds of thousands of degrees for a fraction of a second it is not now difficult to see how millions of gallons of groundwater disappear within the area of a crop circle, or why the plants attain a cooked, malty fragrance. Combine this with Levengood's discovery of microscopic blow-holes in the plants' cell wall pits (indicating the rapid boiling of water inside the plant), and everything starts to fall into place.

Infrasound is also capable of atomizing water molecules, creating a fine mist, and several farmers have described columns of mist rising from within newly-arrived crop circles.

Finally, vapor cavitation is accompanied by a sudden spark of light called ‘sonoluminescence’ This is caused by the production of electrical discharges as the water is ionized. The lower the operating frequency, the greater the effect, and 18 Hz is the lowest safety threshold below which the pressure formed by infrasound is known to produce disruption to chromosomes. Every summer, crop circle plants of every variety are sent for blind tests by Dr. Levengood, and some inevitably show unmistakable disruption to their chromosomes. Yet give him samples deliberately produced by field forgers and he'll find something remarkable — perfectly normal plants!


an example of a different type of cavitation in nature, to show that that premise isn't complete BS...

"incredibly, as the bubbles collapse they momentarily reach the temperature of the sun"


edit on 5-12-2011 by 1825114 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by 1825114
 


Wait...

i thought crop circles were made by farmers with two by fours attached to ropes... and too much time on their hands




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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yeah, all of them are made by really artistic hicks with great coordination/timing skills.

edit on 5-12-2011 by 1825114 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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good theory but i dont believe it to be correct.

many crop circles are extremely complex julia set patterns.

crop circle

i dont see earth/moon vibrations causing anything like that, but i could be wrong.
edit on 5-12-2011 by iSHRED because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 03:34 AM
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Um sand and stalks are totally different.

You put a vibration out or sound, or whatever at a whatever frequencies and i very highly doubt that plant stalks will start bending over and leaving radiation all on their own.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 04:01 AM
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well I'm glad you didn't actually read anything I posted...



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 04:39 AM
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awesome thread.

i had a interesting idea while listening to some really high fidelity music.

everything is vibrational.

the higher the vibrational wave, the greater the complexity of the form it creates. this might explain how portals in dimensions can open up. just have to match the right frequency and you will slip into another dimension.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by 1825114
well I'm glad you didn't actually read anything I posted...


I watched some of the first video, and read your title.

However now that i've gone back to read what you've wrote, I see that you are talking about ice circles.

Title should be changed to just ice circles not crop circles.

However Yes i believe your theory would be plausible, though I do think that the frequency would have to have a high energy output to get the snow moving into formation like that... But still a good theory and highly probable



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by DaRAGE

I watched some of the first video, and read your title.

However now that i've gone back to read what you've wrote, I see that you are talking about ice circles.

Title should be changed to just ice circles not crop circles.

Are you blind?


Originally posted by 1825114
The first thing most people would say is; "But how would that in any way be capable of physically bending stalks?"

Well we know that in some formations, the bends of the stalks show signs of cavitation/heating...

from an article someone wrote on graham hancocks website titled "Is Sound Creating Crop Circles?"...
He's talking about sound being behind the formations, I'm saying it's the moon. Either way, it's frequency/vibrations...

www.grahamhancock.com...

Below 20 Hz sound becomes infrasonic, and such frequencies are directly involved with biological processes, and here lies the direct connection to crop circles. When combined with high-pressure, the acoustic power of infrasound boils the water inside a cavity, in this case the water inside the plants’ stems. In laboratory conditions this action occurs in one nanosecond. As water heats it expands, and a close look at crop circle plants reveals tiny holes in their nodes where this superheated water has blown outwards. With a hollow cavity near the base, and the stems made subtle like molten glass by the heat, the now top-heavy plants collapse into their new horizontal position.

Since this action (called vapor cavitation) creates local temperature increases of hundreds of thousands of degrees for a fraction of a second it is not now difficult to see how millions of gallons of groundwater disappear within the area of a crop circle, or why the plants attain a cooked, malty fragrance. Combine this with Levengood's discovery of microscopic blow-holes in the plants' cell wall pits (indicating the rapid boiling of water inside the plant), and everything starts to fall into place.

Infrasound is also capable of atomizing water molecules, creating a fine mist, and several farmers have described columns of mist rising from within newly-arrived crop circles.

Finally, vapor cavitation is accompanied by a sudden spark of light called ‘sonoluminescence’ This is caused by the production of electrical discharges as the water is ionized. The lower the operating frequency, the greater the effect, and 18 Hz is the lowest safety threshold below which the pressure formed by infrasound is known to produce disruption to chromosomes. Every summer, crop circle plants of every variety are sent for blind tests by Dr. Levengood, and some inevitably show unmistakable disruption to their chromosomes. Yet give him samples deliberately produced by field forgers and he'll find something remarkable — perfectly normal plants!


an example of a different type of cavitation in nature, to show that that premise isn't complete BS...

"incredibly, as the bubbles collapse they momentarily reach the temperature of the sun"




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by 1825114

Originally posted by DaRAGE

I watched some of the first video, and read your title.

However now that i've gone back to read what you've wrote, I see that you are talking about ice circles.

Title should be changed to just ice circles not crop circles.

Are you blind?


Originally posted by 1825114
The first thing most people would say is; "But how would that in any way be capable of physically bending stalks?"

Well we know that in some formations, the bends of the stalks show signs of cavitation/heating...

from an article someone wrote on graham hancocks website titled "Is Sound Creating Crop Circles?"...
He's talking about sound being behind the formations, I'm saying it's the moon. Either way, it's frequency/vibrations...

www.grahamhancock.com...

Below 20 Hz sound becomes infrasonic, and such frequencies are directly involved with biological processes, and here lies the direct connection to crop circles. When combined with high-pressure, the acoustic power of infrasound boils the water inside a cavity, in this case the water inside the plants’ stems. In laboratory conditions this action occurs in one nanosecond. As water heats it expands, and a close look at crop circle plants reveals tiny holes in their nodes where this superheated water has blown outwards. With a hollow cavity near the base, and the stems made subtle like molten glass by the heat, the now top-heavy plants collapse into their new horizontal position.

Since this action (called vapor cavitation) creates local temperature increases of hundreds of thousands of degrees for a fraction of a second it is not now difficult to see how millions of gallons of groundwater disappear within the area of a crop circle, or why the plants attain a cooked, malty fragrance. Combine this with Levengood's discovery of microscopic blow-holes in the plants' cell wall pits (indicating the rapid boiling of water inside the plant), and everything starts to fall into place.

Infrasound is also capable of atomizing water molecules, creating a fine mist, and several farmers have described columns of mist rising from within newly-arrived crop circles.

Finally, vapor cavitation is accompanied by a sudden spark of light called ‘sonoluminescence’ This is caused by the production of electrical discharges as the water is ionized. The lower the operating frequency, the greater the effect, and 18 Hz is the lowest safety threshold below which the pressure formed by infrasound is known to produce disruption to chromosomes. Every summer, crop circle plants of every variety are sent for blind tests by Dr. Levengood, and some inevitably show unmistakable disruption to their chromosomes. Yet give him samples deliberately produced by field forgers and he'll find something remarkable — perfectly normal plants!


an example of a different type of cavitation in nature, to show that that premise isn't complete BS...

"incredibly, as the bubbles collapse they momentarily reach the temperature of the sun"




HAHAHA you will soon learn that people only see what they want to see. that goes for skeptics and the true believers alike.

Thats the ultimate irony to me. they are both blind to the obvious truth. they are both wrong or right depending on how you look at it .



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by 1825114
My theory is that the earth acts as one deflection plate, and the moon acts as the other, and the crops/snow/water act as the sand does in the videos above.
How would this work if the moon wasn't even in the sky?

Sometimes the moon isn't visible in the sky (say in the US) because it's visible from the opposite side of the Earth (say in Japan).



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

How would this work if the moon wasn't even in the sky?

Sometimes the moon isn't visible in the sky (say in the US) because it's visible from the opposite side of the Earth (say in Japan).


Does the moon stop affecting gravity/tides when it's out of our field of view?
edit on 5-12-2011 by 1825114 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by 1825114
Isn't it daytime in the states when it's night on the other side of the planet?

jesus christ
Yes, but how does this explain how the moon could act as a deflection plate if it wasn't in the sky?. Day or night would make a difference since crop circles tend to appear overnight. But if the moon wasn't in the sky at night when the crop circle appeared, then how could the moon have anything to do with it?



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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So you know of every valid formation there has ever been and it's corresponding moon cycle, and can say conclusively that they've formed at times when the moon was on the other side of the planet?



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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reply to post by 1825114
 


It's not the case for every formation, but it's certainly the case for some of them.So if the moon wasn't there for some of them then it certainly doesn't explain those, right?



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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the tides/gravity on one side of the planet is still affected even when the moon is on the other side, isn't it? One side of the earth isn't just 100% cut off from it's effects, we just can't see it.

It's effects are weaker, sure, but they are still there, and there could still be an arrangement of material/crops that it syncs up with.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by 1825114
 

The problem with this idea is that the crop circles wouldn't have such a confined area if the moon was on the opposite side of the Earth. Yes it affects tides on the opposite side of the earth, and look at how large an area those affect, So if you want to draw that parallel, you'd basically have formations the size of an entire continent, which is obviously not what we see.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by 1825114
 

Scientific it ain’t.

Lissajous figures are derived from sine waves, and however complex they are, their complexity can always be reduced to addition and subtraction of sine waves. This will not, of itself, produce the complex and often meaningful patterns of crop circles.

Besides, if Earth was vibrating like that, we would feel or hear it. The wavelengths involved would certainly be within our physical range.

Then, what causes these figures to form only in fields and snowfields? Why not sand circles? Ocean circles (Lissajous figures are created by oscillations in real time)? Litter circles in dirty city squares.

And what is the mechanism that causes these mysterious oscillations to bend cornstalks?

Finally, and most tellingly of all, any sensible person knows that crop circles are made by human beings, and the only possible scientific explanation for them is a psychological one.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by Astyanax

Besides, if Earth was vibrating like that, we would feel or hear it. The wavelengths involved would certainly be within our physical range.

Earth is vibrating right now, do you feel it? No. It's making a hell of a lot of noise too, can you hear it?


Originally posted by Astyanax

Then, what causes these figures to form only in fields and snowfields? Why not sand circles? Ocean circles (Lissajous figures are created by oscillations in real time)?

They don't only form in snow and crops, nobody said that. There are reports of them in water and dirt. Go scribe something in loose sand and see how long it stays there. And you can't compare scattered litter to tightly arranged crops/sand/snow/dirt...

Originally posted by Astyanax

And what is the mechanism that causes these mysterious oscillations to bend cornstalks?

read the original post.

Originally posted by Astyanax

Finally, and most tellingly of all, any sensible person knows that crop circles are made by human beings, and the only possible scientific explanation for them is a psychological one.

YOU'RE the one ascribing human qualities to ALL formations...

Originally posted by Astyanax

the complex and often meaningful patterns of crop circles.

They're ALL "meaningful?" The shapes that form in sand in the videos I posted aren't complex in any way?
If something has meaning to humans, then sure, it's easy to say it's been designed/done by them.

But you're ignoring a lot that aren't "meaningful" in any way, or explained in any way...



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by 1825114
Earth is vibrating right now, do you feel it?

I think you missed this bit:


Originally posted by Astyanax
The wavelengths involved would certainly be within our physical range.

Earth’s mechanical core resonant frequencies are subauditory, that is, too low for us to hear. You may be referring to the Schumann resonance, which is electromagnetic and not mechanical, therefore undetectable by human senses; our electromagnetic sensors are known as eyes and operate at frequencies millions of times higher than the Schumann resonance.

However, such low frequencies cannot possibly be causing crop circle patterns. A 20Hz infrasound wave travelling through rock moves at between 4km and 9km per second and so would have a wavelength of between 200 and 450 metres, or between about 600 and 1250 feet. If crop/sand/ice etc. circles are produced by the Lissajous method, they and the details inside them would have to be correspondingly huge. Crop circles patterns are nowhere near as big.


Originally posted by 1825114
It's making a hell of a lot of noise too, can you hear it?

If the Earth ever makes an audible noise in your vicinity, I suggest you find a reinforced doorway to shelter under, or else run like hell.


read the original post (re. the mechanism of stalk-bending).

I did. I did not find any physical description of the process you are suggesting. There seemed to be some attempt to invoke some rather well-known physical processes as support for it, in a far-fetched, not-really-understanding-what-they’re-talking-about sort of way. Amusing. Not at all convincing.


YOU'RE the one ascribing human qualities to ALL (crop circle) formations...

Not human qualities, just a human origin.


They're ALL "meaningful?" The shapes that form in sand in the videos I posted aren't complex in any way?

Sorry, I don’t watch videos; I don’t have the time. However, if by ‘shapes that form in sand’ you mean artificially created Lissajous figures using oscillating plates with sand sprinkled on them, etc., well, some are simple, others are complex, but their complexity is actually rather simple in mathematical terms. Besides, such artificial figures are not crop circles – even if similar figures do appear in the latter. Would you put it past a human being to create a Lissajous figure in a field? I certainly wouldn’t.


If something has meaning to humans, then sure, it's easy to say it's been designed/done by them.

Show me something that doesn’t have meaning to humans. Even a messily fried egg can assume the face of Jesus to some eyes.


But you're ignoring a lot that aren't "meaningful" in any way, or explained in any way...

I’m not here to argue about crop circles. I am merely pointing out that they are not Lissajous figures. I am taking exception, if you like, to the use of the word ‘scientific’ in your thread title. I call it unethical advertising.


edit on 6/12/11 by Astyanax because: of the real point and another point.[




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