The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen"

Originally posted by violet

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
You need to understand just how many members have posted fanatical tales on here with no pics, then when asked, they flee or they do come back with pics and are caught faking. Some dont know you can check the exif data on their photos and you can catch them, so asking is a good idea to deal with it early on.

I think this is the crook of the problem, which is, I suppose, a natural reaction. But if this is the case, what is lost really? People learn how to spot people who are not telling the truth. I think there is more to gain from discussing a fake topic than dismissing. Take it like a thought experiment :p

I agree. "Pics or it didn't happen" is nowadays like reading a spam URL, or "You have won $8,000,000 in the African Lottery" in your email inbox. I guess you've just got to learn to skip over it, just ignore it. There's certainly been an increase in the last year or two - as the demand for visuals seems to grow and grow, as the world's thirst for seeing events happen live from various sources and angles increases (and becomes more readily available).

Still, people should accept under no circumstance should visual material be a priorty. If you can't filter & sumise written information for yourself then is a discussion forum really the place for you to frequent? There will always be a divide between people who drop by looking for some kind of evidence for something they have zero personal experience of, with those who know there is more to it than just needing pics - some brief moment of possible certainty.

Flag for you OP

reply to post by Phage


Maybe you got "believing" and "considering" confused while growing up? Maybe you took that theory into consideration from someone you didn't really trust?

In most cases what I said would apply to the majority of people.

I will add I too "considered" that U.F.O.'s were E.T. visitors, but that was due to watching documentaries and movies saying that's what they were. Now I'm sure of the fact, with research and other peoples testimony that what I believe now is honest belief, not just something I took into consideration. And what I believe is U.F.O.'s are man made.

I'm really surprised that the first response on this thread wasn't, "Pics or it didn't happen," followed by the infamous, "Second line."

The "poidh" approach is probably also killing off some people's enthusiasm to post. It's evident a lot of people lurk and wait for the right time to talk about their story. And the more threads that are filled with "poidh" the more likely certain gems of witness accounts etc will never be told. It would be great if it was enforced a little harder that a reply like that to what, is to some, quite a sensitive issue and not just a big joke - would be great, and maybe encourage more people to come forward without fear of ridicule. But ATS aliens is a catch all UFO/alien forum, it's not specifically designed to weed out all the un-useful replies. That and the fact these days everyone's a psychiatrist and forum moderator.

reply to post by violet


I was on a jury for a case that had not one piece of photographic or video evidence nothing but one persons word against another and a few character testimonys.We had to go on words alone and found they were enough to convict someone.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


There is a section for personal experiences without proof, it's called the gray area, so pics or it didn't happen still stands.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


It's a joke dude.
It's the shortest way for people to say they aren't interested if you aren't going to deliver. In this day and age pics should never be a problem.

pics or it didn't happen is as annoying as people saying "move along, nothing to see here" or people saying "its swamp gas"

I can't tell you how much both annoy me. . .enough is enough. I understand that we all want pictures of these things, but even those that criticize know that its almost impossible to get pics when you ACUTUALLY are witnessing a UFO event.

Drives me crazy. . .

It's been said before, but take a picture of an airplane crashing as it happens. There are some examples, but I bet there are more legitimate UFO videos than there are videos of said crashes.

Just saying.

Originally posted by Violence
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

There is a section for personal experiences without proof, it's called the gray area, so pics or it didn't happen still stands.

Thank you for pointing that out . You are of course incorrect .
The moderators do a fine job and if they deem a thread does not belong in a specific area , then they usually relocate it .

As far as I'm aware , a well documented account by an eyewitness , still belongs here , wether accompanied by pictures , or not .

reply to post by tpg65


So I'm sure threads stating alien invasion currently happening blah blah blah is definitely suitable for this section then.

Originally posted by Violence
reply to post by tpg65

 

So I'm sure threads stating alien invasion currently happening blah blah blah is definitely suitable for this section then.

Like I said . It's not the place of upstarts to decide the location of threads . The moderators do a fine job without you .

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Phage
You're right.

The problem is that with most eyewitness reports there is usually absolutely nothing to do but say "Hmm. Interesting."..

There are some UFO eyewitness descriptions from government documents and police officers in this post if you ever want to be interested - I'd also say these close range reports do become a little more intriguing when supported by other aspects like radar confirmation, E.M. interference effects, ground trace evidence or separately located witnesses.

reply to post by Visiting ESB

You raise many credible points and I'm not such a great fan of the "pics or it didn't happen" mantra either.

However, using the processes within the Court of Law as an analogy...

Every day in the US, courts decide the outcome of criminal and civil cases on the basis of TESTIMONIAL evidence alone. Most cases don't have the photographic evidence to make or break a case, if there is any photo evidence at all. The credibility of the witness is of the utmost importance. Photos usually don't decide the case, but the credibility of the witness, as deemed by the judge or jury, does. Let this be clear: courts proclaim every day that "it happened" because of TESTIMONIAL, not photographic, evidence.

... it's fair to say that a solitary witness, without collaborative evidence, would be placed under extreme cross examination to justify the veracity of their claim.

Such is ATS.

Peace

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Thank you for a very well written post!

I'd like to bring up the matter of scientific scrutiny vs eyewitness testimony. Some people will argue that eyewitness testimony can't be considered to be of much value when viewed from a scientific standpoint. I like this argument, because we're not in a courtroom, but from this standpoint, we're trying to establish what the UFO phenomenon is all about.

However, I also like the 'courtroom' argument, because it establishes that there is, in fact, a phenomenon happening. But it does not explain what the particular phenomenon is.

I think that both arguments should be seriously considered, because they both serve a purpose.

reply to post by markymint


I agree totally with your post. In the interest of adding something to this thread though, I read a post that mentioned about the need for immediate response or, as I call it, "Facebook/Twitter Junkies".

Being born in '62 I have grown through this age of computers (indeed, I've been an IT specialist since '79), I now see the youth (and older) totally addicted to their mobile phones - phones are treated like new-born babies and never left alone.

This breeds a population that needs to see things immediately. The question is: Do we want a population that cannot drink, eat or even converse without checking if they've got a tweet?

I agree that 'pics or it didn't happen' is a juvenile and ridiculous post........I also believe that the bigger issue is the growing number of people who are comfortable in placing every little problem on facebook and twitter. In other words, people who are comfortable typing their feelings on a keyboard but could never speak a word in public........

The OP speaks of 'credible members' being ridiculed, etc.

Just what makes them credible?

There are things called 'credentials'. Ever see them posted by these 'credible members'?

Your argument fails with the very first sentence, and I'm not asking for pics to prove it.

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

Wow, you are taking this whole "pics or didn't happen" WAY too serious. It's just something that people say to discourage reports without visual evidence, because reports with lack of them totally contribute to discredit the subject. Many threads WITH photos or videos are usually attacked by debunkers, trolls and shills, let alone threads with no visual evidence. I guess that posters who share their experiences in forums filled with a legion of shills, are shooting themselves in the foot. That's simply a matter of be pragmatical. People are doing themselves a huge favor by don't reporting anything without presenting visual evidence.

I don't mean insult you, but IMO your rant is just childish.

edit on 12/5/2011 by 1AnunnakiBastard because: (no reason given)

I don't agree with this at all. Firstly as others have said, to capture on object photographically that may be only there for a few seconds is difficult. Does this mean you should never speak of the incident again?

No, that's ridiculous. By telling others about what you saw, on a forum etc at least there is a record of it. It's just possible that someone may have some great footage of the same object and is encouraged to share it with the world because others have already come forward with what they saw.

Of course testimony may come in all grades from vague, to detailed and compelling, accompanied by similarly bad or good pictures or film. We may get board of sifting through the vague stories and rubbish footage but sometimes the detailed stories are worth it.

On the occasion that I saw two obviously unusual objects in the night sky, I made an attempt to find my camera in the pitch black (it was somewhere in my tent) but decided to give up and actually watch the strange objects I was confronted with. Sorry I don't have pics but there you go

Two years later a hovering object was spotted in day light at this same place by three people I know very well , non of them had the time to reach for cameras before the object vanished, on this occassion I missed it completely because I was looking for my binoculars! Again, no pics but I think it's important to discuss these incidences for anyone who has a truly curious interest in the subject. I can take the ridicule and insults if need be.