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What Will Soldiers do if Ordered to Arrest Friends, Families, Neighbors on US Soil?

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:28 AM
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I do not think they will need to use the military, Local police forces have already been militarized and are, as demonstrated, more than willing to arrest anyone. There are some indications that local police are being directed and funded federally which, essentially, creates a standing army. Our soldiers are being kept busy overseas and they are trying to do their best to get their job done. Most are not aware of what is about to happen to their familes and friends back here.




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by jude11
 


I'm not an American soldier, but I do belong to a NATO military force, with the same western mentality. Most of our military was shaped to the US philosophy after WW2, and in our case, after the 70's.

But I think that this is what would happen in Europe, and the same in the US, since the military isn't that "localized" within the western countries.

Anyone who sees anything wrong with what I'll answer, just point it. I have relative ignorance towards US military protocols.


What are you going to do when you are ordered to the streets of America to act as police over the very people you are entrusted to protect? In other words, go against everything that America stands for? 


In order for that to happen, an order must be given, and that sort of orders only comes from one place. Either a Prime-Minister or a President. Both answer to the people, and/or to a Congress.

Being representations of the people, I have serious doubts that the military would ever turn against the citizens it is sworn to protect. The military isn't an island within a country, it's the shield and sword of said country. Which also means that it is unable to attack it's own citizens.

The only way that could happen, and we've seen it all around the world, is only in the case of a dictatorship.

Any other country, especially western, would never have it's military bring down the population.


Maybe you can't personally answer that question on here but insight into what MAY be the general feeling amongst fellow soldiers would be appreciated. 


In my country, the military would move faster against the government than against the people. I have no doubts about that. And even that scenario is very, very unlikely. The sacrificial attitude of the military mostly means that our branches would live for years under hard circumstances (for instance, a economical collapse), than turn against it's people or even gov.

If anything to the contrary would happen, it would mean that everything we stand for is a lie. Which, is not. At least by principle.

And I've served with american soldiers. One of the strongest reasons why I defend so much the US military in these forums, it's because I've seen your own citizens in combat and in situations that bring the best/worst in everyone of us.

You have some fine souls in your military. I'm willing to put my hands on fire that no american soldier would participate in a "crushing" of the population. And I'm not even american, so that says a lot.


I don't think it's even a question anymore. It's when and not if it will happen and that time is fast approaching. So what will you do? 


Like I said, I doubt that will ever happen. If it does, the military will be with it's people.

If a population mobilizes because it's unhappy or living through a hard time, the military are also in that group.


Will you use force against peaceful demonstrators standing for their rights? Will you warn your neighbors of Martial Law plans? Will you force your way into private houses to seize guns from people protecting their families if you are ordered to?


The only role I would play in such a thing is within keeping order.

That means putting a line on the floor and not letting people starting to trash things, or destroy property (doesn't mean who it belongs to.. I just think it's a matter of respect. You can protest without trashing everything along the way).

And even that role would be using non-lethal means.

The only way I would fire on someone, would be with the same set of mind than I would in any other situation: stop someone from hurting other people.


Will you point a loaded weapon at your Non-Military friends? Will you participate in locking up innocent people? Family? Seniors?


I would never, never, absolutely never allow anyone to take over an weapon cache. Never. And I will die protecting it if I need to.

Weapons are a bad thing, and there is no reason whatsoever to resort to weapons. And americans should know better than that.

One of the most important things that you did to earn your independence was something that now is almost a joke, but has meaning. Throwing tea bags out of cargo ships and choosing to drink coffee did more for your independence than any bullet fired.

Words, a voice, an attitude and a pacifist action will ALWAYS do more good than any confrontation.

And even if some part of the military starts attacking. Don't attack back.

Look at what Egyptians did. They didn't start a civil war. They shouted "freedom", they died and they took care of eachother until the government could do nothing but to leave them alone.

Confrontation is never the answer, and it's the military responsibility to keep that way.


Or will you draw the line in the sand and stand with us?


I will defend everyone. That's it.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Believe me, the military has determined by now who will be willing to turn on Americans and who will not.

The first thing that will be necessary is to reclassify the US troups as UN forces. At that point foreign troups will be assigned with former American troups. After "weeding out" those who would not feel comfortable enslaving their fellow citizens. Then they'll find (manufacture) some excuse to confiscate the guns & ammo from Americans . I'm unsure how that will turn out. It could be a blood-bath.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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It won't be U.S. troops. It will be U.N. troops. U.S. troops will be in other countries quelling the uprisings there. You can thank any politician that touts the U.N. for this. If you like the U.N., then YOU are the problem. If you vote for a politician that likes the U.N., then YOU are the problem.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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I dont think this would stand.. orders like this breaking the constitution... Not okay



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Thats fine, keep in mind however the amount of well trained vets we have in this country, a HUGE amount........

I urge you to checkout oathkeepers.org

We will always protect our country and her people

10 Orders we will not Obey
edit on 4-12-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)


I am one of them. TO THE END BOYS! I believe that not only would you have that huge majority thats active that wouldnt take an order like that. But you would also add that huge majority of veterans that will stand with them in a time like that. There's alot of us!



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:42 AM
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I think there would be a divide in the military,some that would be too far brainwashed by their superiors to be able to back out of their orders and follow suit,while others that would regard their constitution to be more important and disobey them.

The two sides would most probably enter in deadly conflict against each other sooner or later as tensions escalate.

This is what happened in the romanian revolution,so that's what I speculate would happen in the US as well.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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I havent finished reading all the repies yet but I will. That said if we look to history uner similar circumstances we may have some answer. As the Civil War was ramping up many officers and enlisted men walked away from the US military because they were ordered to take up arms against their home states. Some states attempted to stay neutral in the conflict. My home state of North Carolina was one of those. When the president asked NC to send the militia into SC they told him no and then seceded themselves. (yes that's a simplified version of events) So I think the majority of soldiers, marines and sailors would have a very hard time following those orders and many would refuse. Yes they likely wouldn't be interacting with people they know but I don't think they would want to oppress their countrymen. Everyone I have ever known who was in the military joined to protect the American people and they would do just that, against any enemy.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:10 PM
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Read all the posts so far. The OP asks what will happen?

Lets take a look at all the wars the US has won since WWII. None of them. While they have a great rapid advance and attack methodology, everyone they have attacked has disappeared into the general population.

This means a rapid taking of land and a long term bloodletting for trying to keep it. then as tens and hundreds of thousands of casualties and losses mount they cook the books and throw away the numbers.

Every war since WWII has ended in failure. Now you may say we succeeded in NATO actions etc. But all of them we were the primary factor in ended the same. The US is not equipped trained or prepared to deal with a hostile people on their own turf. When they attempt it they only grow the numbers of the enemy at a very rapid rate. The stupidity factor out of the pentagon and the joint chiefs is overwhelming.

But look at the flip side. We have never been a defender. We do not have the capabilities needed for defense from Russia or China, etc. Nuclear deterrent is not a defense in a real sense.

What has been done in the past to overcome this? Starve the population out. Then the mothers with children will snitch for a bowl of rice. Its an ancient method.

Will our soldiers arrest and attack the General population. You bet they will. But it will be the end of the current govt, because they dont have a method to stop the cancer of hate that comes with what they do. Its their own downfall and the end of their choosing if they do.


BUT......

Lets take a look at Greece. The people have no weapons. sticks and bricks armies they call them. And what do they do to the police and soldiers? The poor mans atomic bomb. They set them on fire and watch them burn alive. So you see? you cant start a round of hate. It will never go away and as control becomes tighter they will fight back in ever more brutal and animalistic ways. There they target the children and families of the leaders and they spend their lives locked up and never allowed to go outside.



So the best policy is always to rally with the people and not against them. Your grandma didnt sit in a factory all day making torpedos and artillery shells because she hated the govt. If she did she would have set the building on fire. She got behind her country and pulled double shifts if needed.


The truth is simple. The only way to win is not to play.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:12 PM
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This post bears repeating...

BTW, and IMHO...the few that maybe would follow the orders,

would have their arse kicked in short order by the Ones Who Wouldn't.



Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Thats fine, keep in mind however the amount of well trained vets we have in this country, a HUGE amount........

I urge you to checkout oathkeepers.org

We will always protect our country and her people

10 Orders we will not Obey
edit on 4-12-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)


Another thought, this brings to mind either a short story, or maybe a true story,

of the Joint Chiefs having to confront a vengeful president (can't remember which)

maybe in the 60's? I can't find the story now..

Went along the lines that the Joint Chiefs threatened the President with

immediate arrest and public trial for treason.

Maybe a Bill Cooper story, I'm not sure



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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All of the soldiers I have talked to about this scenario said they would disobey orders to detain or shoot american citizens. As mentioned in the thread previously, they would send in foreign troops to do the job. I look forward to that day! I will have absolutely no problem putting a round through the head of a foreign soldier. They are in my country illegally, by illegal orders, and they automatically become an enemy combatant!



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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I am in the US Army and I will NOT obey orders to police up law abiding citizens.

There's plenty of stuff I would completely refuse to do and would go AWOL for.

I am here to serve and defend the people of the united states of America and protect their constitutional rights.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Thats fine, keep in mind however the amount of well trained vets we have in this country, a HUGE amount........

I urge you to checkout oathkeepers.org

We will always protect our country and her people

10 Orders we will not Obey
edit on 4-12-2011 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)


...as well as millions of non-veterans who have many years experience with firearms and plenty of ammo on hand.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by jude11
 


I think it would be a chance at moral redemption to many veterans to defend their fellow Americans, not violate them. Many take an oath to do just that. I would hope they would take a page from Egypt's book and side with the citizens over the police.

Many veterans are looking for a way to right their wrongs. I really doubt they'd choose to add to their nightmares by becoming traitors to the people.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by Algernonsmouse

Originally posted by tkwasny
When issuing a blatently illegal order, the subordinates are obligated under the UCMJ to place that issuing superior under arrest or they will be charged with disobeying the order to not place that officer under arrest. The courts martial will sort it all out after a full investigation.
edit on 4-12-2011 by tkwasny because: Typo fix


What if it is made a lawful order? I kind of thought that was the premise anyway. What if lawfully they were ordered to do so, would they still do it. Maybe I was wrong. The patriot act was a great way to kick off making it a legal order though and apparently they are working on making it legal to detain americans without warrant within the US I saw the other day?

I think it is more than a fair question. Will all the Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck devotees rush to protect some Obama loving liberal? What if choices have to be made and it is either family right or family left? How will that decision be made?

I am not a military basher but I am a realist. Rape happens all the time in the military so the idea that they are somehow better or more moral or more just than civillians falls on deaf ears. I know the military is full of humans just like every other pit on earth and I do not have faith all those humans will be compassionate heroes in the face of the option to watch a tree hugger die.


The answere's you are looking for are in here the UCMJ. Rules and regulations (laws) as soldiers we abide by above and beyond what the civilian populace must abide by.

UCMJ

That doesn't even cover half of the laws we follow there are entire librarys covering that but check out this seach and most general questions can be answered.

www.ask.com... -4F0C-91BD-DF389B18A8CA
edit on 5-12-2011 by Grimpachi because: added


Actually that did not help at all because apparently you missed the main point of my post and that is that laws and rules can be changed. Showing me current rules helps me out how then?



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:28 PM
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Just a rough guess,

but judging by the reply's on this topic..

I think we have more than 3% of the population

Bravo, my friends.

Maybe a hundred years from now,

others will still be here, on ATS, discussing their Oath.

time will tell.

Again, BRAVO my friends.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by DAVID64
I think they will use foreign troops for their dirty work. They know that a large percentage of US soldiers will refuse such an order or go AWOL. I also believe that most of those foreign troops will be going home in body bags. We have a nation of people who are Fed Up with the crap coming out of Washington and it would be a blood bath. To conquer the American people, they would have to destroy most of this country.


. Okay I will play your game. Who is this they that you are talking about? Just how are they going to get US troops out of this country first. Please do some research before answering. There is a percentage of soldiers that must be the United States at all times. I'm not going to give you the answer I want you to look it up. How are they going to get foreign troops into this country without anybody noticing. That is just for starters but hopefully it will get your brain working again.

Same question to rexusdiablos

edit on 5-12-2011 by Grimpachi because: spelling


Who says they have to get them in without anyone noticing? There are Canadian troops training by me right now. That is right, foreign troops on US soil and I bet you did not even know about them.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Grimpachi
 





nless you actually knew Tillman and was there when he died do not try to make his death and something it was not. There was a cover-up that that was because people screwed up. To try and say he was purposely killed because of what he believed was completed B.S. and as far as I'm concerned that is just as bad as how the military tried to turn into a hero for war. It distracts from what really happened and dishonors his name. I could debate you on this and show you where you are wrong but this is not the thread to do that. He was a hero in his own right, decent and honorable man. People are not sent on Ringer missions as you said.


I felt the same way you did when I heard about it, so I went and read some articles out there,
and after reading up on it I came to the conclusion I posted.

It is based on the article put out by forbes.

The article was so damning it was pulled.

Not only was it pulled from forbes, they pulled it out of the internet archive as well.

Quite the feat there...

Many ppl had commented about the article on many forums before it got yanked,
and its implications.

Googling the "missing link URL" shows all the areas it was mentioned in various threads
on various forums.

Here is one of the posts from one of the forums, and I have my opinion and you have yours.

Many forum posts mention missing forbes article


In case you were wondering why the White House was so anxious to keep things quiet... (www.forbes.com...) Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press. "The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators. The doctors - whose names were blacked out - said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.


As other military members have committed atrocities just chalk this up as another one.

I think he saw or heard something that got him murdered.

Most things like this are covered up, there has been man cover ups that are well known
and you can be sure there are ones no one has ever heard of.

Another opinion piece elsewhere nails it pretty well also.


So there was no evidence whatsoever of friendly fire, but the ballistics data clearly indicated that the three head shots had been fired from just 10 yards away and then the Army tried to concoct a hoax friendly fire story and sent gloating back-slapping e mails congratulating each other on their success while preventing the doctors from exploring the possibility of murder. How can any sane and rational individual weigh this evidence and not come to the conclusion that Tillman was deliberately gunned down in cold blood?



edit on 5-12-2011 by Ex_MislTech because: content



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by antonia
 


As someone who is descended from, and the parent of, military personel, I can tell you that you are wrong. I have had this exact discussion with a few people at Ft. Bliss just before my son deployed 2 months ago. The banksters and politicians also harmed soldiers and their families. Soldiers are just as disgusted with our government as us. Due to the fact that enlisted people don't make a lot of money, they feel the pinch from inflation just as bad, or worse, than many of us- and they understand why it is getting so expensive to eat and fuel our vehicles.

Given the opportunity to right the wrongs of the past few years, I believe the majority of our military would be on the side of the constitution. Will some blindly follow orders without thinking? Yes, of course. Those are the ones who come out of the military and become police so they can continue to use the constitution for toilet paper.



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