The challenge that will not be taken seriously by many unbelievers.

Originally posted by SevenOhhTwo
Ill tell you what pray for me because that "dude" doesnt listen..

Why do you expect someone to listen when you urself doen't. You may hear........but do you listen?

Originally posted by deadeyedick
There is undeniable proof that god does exist and when one ignores the truth there is still hope cause jesus saves.
That's right the surefire way to know that god exist is to ask him to fill your heart with his presence.
Ask in the name of jesus to be forgiven of your wordly sins and guide you as you walk on his path.
Do this with an open heart and have faith in yourself and all of his creations and you will begin to feel his grace lighting your way.
If you truly do this you will have your proof you so desire.
If you feel inclined not to take my challenge seriously then by all means bash away for i have big shoulders and can carry your load.
Is a leap of faith too big of a price to pay for your eternal salvation?
Please note that i'm not endorsing you to open the church doors on a building only to break down the walls that have been built around your temple of god.
You are the church not your neighbor or your family cause they can not drag you to salvation.When you accept this you will be lifted up in a spiritual sense.

as your "undeniable proof" starts with self-referential nonsense, it's probably better not to go into the other statements.

i don't mind people believing in fairy tales. As long as that activity doesn't influence me in ways i don't want that's fine. go ahead!

but a soon as you attribute certain things to your belief, like "undeniable proof" (why the heck do these believers need to prove? if there was prove, there wouldn't be a need to "believe" as one would simply "know") you agreed upon some basic rules.
One of the rules is that you can't use that what you want to prove as a given. Asking the stuff you need proof for to open your heart, well, sorry, not good enough. But let's go along with it. Please specify to which of the over 3000 gods we need to address our request to get our heart filled? If it's filled, btw, will the muscle still be able to perform its functions or will god make our blood run in case the filling blocked things?)

better refrain from "proving"... frees up time to entertain the imaginary friend.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by 547000

 

Considering God didn't write the bible, i'd like to know how this would be calling him a liar?

Hell doesn't exist according to the bible... Look it up.

Keys of Death and Hades
Revelation 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Other items:

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

Revelation 6:8
I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Revelation 20:13
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

.......so, there is a hell. Also, The bible was written by man through the Holy Spirit. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that “All scripture is inspired by God….” In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to “know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book. So we can say that God used the holy Spirit through man to write the bible. We can also say that "These are Gods words....we can also say that, yes, you did call The Big man a Liar........

Originally posted by deadeyedick
reply to post by SevenOhhTwo

 

It is that easy and it's even easier to be deceived and once your deceived you will received more delusion.
I noticed that when i pray for things worldly that i want i always get it.
Just never how or when i thought i would.
I have found that the closer to god i believe i get the closer to nature i become and my want for worldly things diminishes.

isn't it a delight to have a brain that fools us into seeing patterns?
whether they are out there or not?

good to hear your need to be part of us consumers decreases.
one doesn't have to be a believer to experience the benefits of non-attachment.

reply to post by NeverSleepingEyes

there wouldn't be a need to "believe" as one would simply "know"

Now that is getting close to the truth.
If one is able to wade through my ignorance and incompetence and follow the path then salvation awaits.
On the other hand one can lift up the flaws found in my thoughts and stand well grounded to logic.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Akragon

 

The trinity was something the apostles taught. And did you not read the part where Jesus takes His apostles aside and explains?

Read your bible more carefully. One good place is to try to understand what eating His flesh and drinking His blood means.

Alright show me where they taught the trinity...

Show me where The son and the spirit are equal with the one God...

Good luck

I am persuaded that those who don’t want to obey the Father are not going to be revealed why Jesus isn’t a board member on the trinity until tremendous judgement falls. Basically, Catholics believe the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all different forms of God, one in substance and will, but distinct in some way, but not divided (oh no…not divided for that would be polytheism, not to mention that a son would have to obey the MOST HIGH). It is Platonic, ethereal and detatched from the nature of both The Father who is The Spirit (as well as authority) and The Son who is the agent, mediator and substance.

profoundproph... ecy.com/2010/09/is-gods-son-divine-part-of-a-trinity-and-as-such-divinity-comments-and-questions-by-rob/
Many great points regarding the trinity can be found here.

reply to post by XxAcidxBurnxX


Hades = in greek ᾅδης... which translated the Hebrew term "שׁאול" or Sheol... which is the abode of the dead, not a place of torture and torment reserved for the wicked. word study my friend, give it a try.

so, there is a hell

Incorrect... perhaps within your relgion. Though i also believe if you have a strong belief in such a place it might be where you end up. I have no belief in hell, and thus no fear of such a place.

Fear is your enemy, and even the thought of the existance of such a place causes fear which only hurts you.

I might also add, the churches of paulianity/Christianity use fear as a conversion tactic... as you obviously know since you are part of said organization in some way i would assume.

The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book. So we can say that God used the holy Spirit through man to write the bible

Circular arguements don't work with me... The bible proves the bible... meaning it proves nothing.

We can also say that "These are Gods words....we can also say that, yes, you did call The Big man a Liar

Incorrect...

God didn't write the bible... Inspired does not mean he wrote the bible.

Let me show you what else YOUR God wrote...

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.


Get real man... God did not write the bible, its completely obvious... The one God is a loving God and has no reason to destroy his own creations... You lack understanding my friend

but believe whatever you like...

Here's something to ponder on the subject of salvation.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by XxAcidxBurnxX

 

Hades = in greek ᾅδης... which translated the Hebrew term "שׁאול" or Sheol... which is the abode of the dead, not a place of torture and torment reserved for the wicked.

word study my friend, give it a try.

so, there is a hell

Incorrect... perhaps within your relgion. Though i also believe if you have a strong belief in such a place it might be where you end up. I have no belief in hell, and thus no fear of such a place.

Fear is your enemy, and even the thought of the existance of such a place causes fear which only hurts you.

I might also add, the churches of paulianity/Christianity use fear as a conversion tactic... as you obviously know since you are part of said organization in some way i would assume.

The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book. So we can say that God used the holy Spirit through man to write the bible

Circular arguements don't work with me... The bible proves the bible... meaning it proves nothing.

We can also say that "These are Gods words....we can also say that, yes, you did call The Big man a Liar

Incorrect...

God didn't write the bible... Inspired does not mean he wrote the bible.

Let me show you what else YOUR God wrote...

who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.


Get real man... God did not write the bible, its completely obvious... The one God is a loving God and has no reason to destroy his own creations... You lack understanding my friend

but believe whatever you like...

Sure if you say so..............

20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death – the lake of fire. 15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, that person was thrown into the lake of fire (1 mention of Hell) Death+ He conquered Death. Hades=Hell

25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels! (2nd mention of Hell)

20:10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet are too, and they will be tormented there day and night forever and ever (A 3rd mention;Lake of Fire = Hell)

13:41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather from his kingdom everything that causes sin as well as all lawbreakers. 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (A 4th mention of a Hell)

Biblical Terms Describing Where the Dead Are
Sheol - a Hebrew term simply describing “the grave” or “death” – Does not refer to “hell” specifically
Hades - A Greek term that usually refers to hell – a place of torment (Luke 10:15; 16:23, etc.)
Gehenna - A Greek term (borrowed from a literal burning dump near Jerusalem) that always refers to hell – a place of torment (Matthew 5:30; 23:33)
“Lake of fire”- the final abode of unbelievers after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:14,15)
“Abraham’s bosom” - (Luke 16:22) a place of eternal comfort
“Paradise” - (Luke 23:43) a place of eternal comfort
“With the Lord” - a key phrase describes where church age believers are after death (Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 5:8)
“New heavens and earth” – where believers will be after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:4-6; 21:1-4)
***Im just trying to show where Hell is mention in the bible. It goes by numerous names. Im not trying to argue but it seems like you are. What you believe is on ur own soul. I do not judge. I'm Done!

reply to post by XxAcidxBurnxX

Really.......Reallly?So what if thats what MY GOD said. You cant just "Cut and Paste" bible verses and pickett them around because you dont agree All i was trying to do is show where hell is mentioned in the bible. Fear is my enemy??????? Thats where i'm going to end up?????? My lack of understanding??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're Hilarious!

haha, why are you mad?

let me explain my friend...

I don't just "cut and paste" verses... We call that "cherry picking"... I read the entire chapter to find meaning, then compare them to what Jesus taught... In doing so you can see the error within the pages, and the "truth" springs forth...

Look for love, and you'll find truth... its really as simple as that.

Understand that... and the formentioned "lack of understanding" will slowly disolve, and you will be left with "the truth"... The words of Jesus are infallible... at least as far as i've found, and i've studied them extensively throughout my years...

And...

I study without religious influence telling me what is wrong and what is correct...

Now dealing with "hell"... look up the word Gehenna...

Gehenna was a garbage dump. Used by Jews of the time to get rid of, or destroy things. Gehenna was a place to cast ones garbage, dead and diseased bodies, the bodies of criminals, and other refuse. In order to ensure complete and utter destruction, the Jews kept the fires of Gehenna always burning. Often fueling the fires with sulfur. Gehenna was a large valley often resembling, because of its size, a “burning lake of fire”. Many things aside from garbage were thrown into Gehenna. Often, the bodies of diseased dead people were thrown into Gehenna to ensure the diseases utter destruction and removal from populated areas. Also commonly thrown into the fires were the bodies of criminals, seen as a somewhat cleansing of society by utterly destroying the offenders. The fires of Gehenna were kept perpetually burning to utterly consume the corrupt things which were thrown into it.

I tell you "Hell" is a place you "might" end up because belief is an extremely powerful thing... IF you believe such a place exists, and you feel guilty when you pass because of your "sins" in this life... You MIGHT end up in whatever you believe "hell" to be... ONLY your belief can create such a place...

Take a look at every single one of the "hell" experience videos you can find on the net... Each and every person had some prior belief of the existance of Hell... But you will not find one video where that person did not have any belief in such a place before his NDE...

Either way i told you, believe whatever you like... im not here to convince you of anything, and i really don't care what you or anyone else believes.

As i've said, i can only point in the direction... but there are many directions.

When it comes down to it, we all end up in the exact same place... We are ALL ONE...

You are who you are... Let no man guide you, find your path...

Originally posted by Akragon

I tell you "Hell" is a place you "might" end up because belief is an extremely powerful thing... IF you believe such a place exists, and you feel guilty when you pass because of your "sins" in this life... You MIGHT end up in whatever you believe "hell" to be... ONLY your belief can create such a place...

Take a look at every single one of the "hell" experience videos you can find on the net... Each and every person had some prior belief of the existance of Hell... But you will not find one video where that person did not have any belief in such a place before his NDE...

Similarly, all those with different beliefs. Ranging from different kinds of hell, to any other form of afterlife people with NDE's experiance.

However, I'd follow the scientific explaination, that NDE's are desperate hallucinations of a dying(poorly functioning) brain. However, that's very similar to what you propose, except that it goes away when you do die for real. Whereas, if I'm reading correctly, you're stating that the soul leaves the body and creates it's own environment based off your beliefs?

Question; kind of hypothetical humoring.

If I and a loved one gave ourselves a self delusion that we'd have an afterlife realm together. Would we? Or would we both create an image of the other one to fulfill our ideas of the afterlife, while the actual person is also in their own with their fake image of you?

What if one has the delusion, while another believes(and goes to) a different afterlife?

Curiosity, nothing more. Just sounds interesting.

Originally posted by xxsomexpersonxx

Originally posted by Akragon

I tell you "Hell" is a place you "might" end up because belief is an extremely powerful thing... IF you believe such a place exists, and you feel guilty when you pass because of your "sins" in this life... You MIGHT end up in whatever you believe "hell" to be... ONLY your belief can create such a place...

Take a look at every single one of the "hell" experience videos you can find on the net... Each and every person had some prior belief of the existance of Hell... But you will not find one video where that person did not have any belief in such a place before his NDE...

Similarly, all those with different beliefs. Ranging from different kinds of hell, to any other form of afterlife people with NDE's experiance.

However, I'd follow the scientific explaination, that NDE's are desperate hallucinations of a dying(poorly functioning) brain. However, that's very similar to what you propose, except that it goes away when you do die for real. Whereas, if I'm reading correctly, you're stating that the soul leaves the body and creates it's own environment based off your beliefs?

Question; kind of hypothetical humoring.

If I and a loved one gave ourselves a self delusion that we'd have an afterlife realm together. Would we? Or would we both create an image of the other one to fulfill our ideas of the afterlife, while the actual person is also in their own with their fake image of you?

What if one has the delusion, while another believes(and goes to) a different afterlife?

Curiosity, nothing more. Just sounds interesting.

My friend i can only assume what the afterlife is like... I know we've all been there many times. Unfortunatly like most i have no memory of the place... I don't know all the rules and i won't pretend i do...

I know what i know... and that is all.

I know when you pass you return to where we all came from... call it heaven, call it the afterlife...

I believe your thoughts and beliefs in hell might manifest in the afterlife... if that belief is strong enough, and the fear of it is present.

Fear is what prevents spiritual progression...

This is what i know... Further then that would be only speculation...

And before you ask "how do i know these things".... simply put... i feel what is truth in my heart. These things ring true to me...

But again as i always say, believe whatever you like...

reply to post by Akragon


When i try to imagine hell or even get a perspective of it i keep drawing a blank.
That is odd for me cause most of the research i do on a subject begins with a glimpse in my mind of what direction to take.A sort of gut feeling to follow.All i can go on is that i have seen first hand the works of satan and his demons and i know they are real and when i pass i don't want their company.
At the same time something tells me that hell is on earth in a realm close to ours and when the great unveiling occurs there will be a great battle and those that acknowledged and received the grace of god in this realm will be slaying a dark army.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Akragon

 

The trinity was something the apostles taught. And did you not read the part where Jesus takes His apostles aside and explains?

Read your bible more carefully. One good place is to try to understand what eating His flesh and drinking His blood means.

Alright show me where they taught the trinity...

Show me where The son and the spirit are equal with the one God...

Good luck

carm.org...

www.staycatholic.com...

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Akragon

 

The trinity was something the apostles taught. And did you not read the part where Jesus takes His apostles aside and explains?

Read your bible more carefully. One good place is to try to understand what eating His flesh and drinking His blood means.

Alright show me where they taught the trinity...

Show me where The son and the spirit are equal with the one God...

Good luck

carm.org...

www.staycatholic.com...

I said show me where "THEY" taught the trinity...

Meaning Jesus and his followers...

Not his followers disciples...

reply to post by Akragon


If you actually paid attention, you would know the direct successors of the apostles believed. If the apostles did not teach them how would they come to such an interpretation? The bible wasn't even written then. It wasn't even hundreds of years later like you claimed.

Just think about it for a second. Scripture alone HAS to be nonsense.

This thread is an endless debate. We all have our views and beliefs obviously.

Originally posted by RickyVelveeta

Originally posted by deadeyedick
The bible can speak for or against most things.
That seems like one of those walls i was talking about.
We will all sin again i'm sure of it.
Here you may enjoy this thread of mine.
Hypocrite

interesting thread, kinda reinforces my beliefs.

everyone's a hypocrite, and in my experience especially christians. christians are the worst hypocrites, it's literally a requirement for being a christian.

don't need jesus to be a good person and live a full and functioning life. i sin. i like sinning. our sins are the only interesting thing about us and are what make us who we are. i don't know what kind of utopian tranquil existence you dream of existing in after you die and get buried in the ground, but it's one i want no part of. what do people even do in heaven anyway? just walk around high fiving each other while all the interesting smart people party? seems like fun, kinda sounds like real life come to think about it.

repenting is nothing but handing over all your independence and personal responsibility in exchange for a cheap, nasty and flawed self-help scam. if that's what god wants, then screw him. if i ever subscribe to a faith system it will be one that actually requires integrity and doesn't allow hypocrites to make s- up as they go along and distort reality even further than it already has been.

WoW! Now thats alot of Pride