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"Genderqueer" individual "doesn't identify as male or female"; demands special recognition

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posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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This thread so far:

People who don't know what the hell they are talking about.
But think they do.

And that's pretty much all of you.




posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 


I don't think anyone is being hateful. I think that a number of us are just sick of having to be PC about everything. It starts with this thing wanting to have it's own bathroom. Next people who claim to be dragons are going to want dragon bathrooms. I don't hate the person for not waning to be assigned a gender. I just don't want to have to learn a whole new slew (slough? screw it) of words every time some doofus wants to stir up some nonsense.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by SyphonX
 


So far what I can take away from your post is that..


All transgender women are out to non forcefully rape men.

Amazing.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by Never Despise
 


This is a whole bunch of crap, like many have said if you are born male or female even babies born hermaphrodites are tested to see witch gender is the dominat and thats how parents are recomended to chose the dominant gender.

So this bull crap of trying to create a gender that doesn't exist is nothing but that bull crap.

Even if you have a sex change you are still what you were born either male of female and a change of genitals is not going to change how you were born, sorry but that is the sad true.

Anybody that wants to be accepted for what they feel they are, they will have better chances without trying to force others into acceptance with stupid agendas like this one.

edit on 4-12-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 


That was certainly illuminating. Perhaps you could teach us instead of coming in here with your oodles of knowledge and hurting feelings. Do you have an opinion? Other than everyone in this thread has no idea what we're talking about.
edit on 4-12-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by Domo1
 


I could start with your outdated perception of gender.

Do you want a lecture on how gender is defined more in the brain than in your pants?

Or all transgender still just a bunch of perverts with a strange fetish in your mind?



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by SyphonX
 


If you got a good attorney, s/he could successfully argue that your "partner" for the night was misrepresenting him/herself causing you mental suffering and anguish.


Im sure you could also argue that it was attempted rape/sexual assault

because if you had known they werent the gender you thought they were, you would not be complicit and it would have been against your will



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Domo1
 

I could start with your outdated perception of gender.

Do you want a lecture on how gender is defined more in the brain than in your pants?

Or all transgender still just a bunch of perverts with a strange fetish in your mind?


No I would not. I'm sick of high-handed politically correct types trying to lecture me.

Who decides what's "outdated" - you and your ideological buddies? Nice shaming tactic...make people feel "outdated" or "unhip" for holding certain ideas. Usually when such tactics are employed it means there is a lack of underlying logic to support a given position.

How about a lecture on X and Y chromosomes? Every cell in your body has either XX or XY chromosomes. XX is female, XY is male. Not matter what you do to your physical bodily phenotype, this genotypic expression of maleness or femaleness will remain coded in every cell of your body, every hair and every pore. And that's a fact.

Who said anything about "bunch of perverts with a strange fetish" in this thread? Nobody, that's who. Just another strawman and a shaming tactic. Fail.

I don't care what you do with your body. But I share the OP's weariness with people trying to get me to warp my speech and thoughs and trying to impose shame as an argument tactic rather than logic.

edit on 12/4/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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Alright, so I have my own issues with genderqueer, but I am an activist in the LGBT community and I wanted to clear up a few things:

First, genderqueer is not an insulting terminology. Queer is being turned around within the community. It is only bad if someone says "that guy's such a queer" and means it in a derogatory way.
Faggot, on the other hand, is very controversial even in the gay community. Some want to turn it around but others do not.
Either way, if you are not gay, if you are not part of the community, or if you are saying the word in an insulting way, neither should be said. It's the same as calling a black person a n***er - if they choose to use it on themselves, it's okay, but it's not okay for others to. It seems hypocritical but only someone in the community can decide if the term is something they want to use to describe themselves. You, on the other hand, cannot make that decision for them.

Second, on the issue of "warping the English language" and trying to control other people. Have you ever thought that perhaps the language as it already is controls us? We have no gender neutral pronoun. It pisses me off when I am writing an essay and I have to say "he or she" because I have no gender neutral pronoun. Our language forces us to think in binaries. If you have not considered the topic of whether gender binary is alright or not, stop harping about it until you do some serious reflection. Why is knowing someone's gender so important? Why does it matter if someone is a boy or a girl? Why is it your deal if someone wants to identify as neither? The issue is not that this person, Ryth, wants to control you - it's that Ryth does not want to be controlled by language. Just as someone is allowed to say, "Hey, don't call me Dan" if their name is Daniel, someone is allowed to say they don't want you to call them "he" or "she". It's not PC, it's simple respect.

As for my issues with genderqueer: I strongly feel that people who are genderqueer (there are many, those of you who haven't heard of it are missing the boat!) are simply mixing up societal stereotypes with gender. For example, a female who likes playing football might feel "genderqueer" and like they are somewhere on the continuum of gender rather than on the end. My opinion is that those who feel this way are simply perpetuating the stereotypes about males and females by professing that those stereotypes define male and female. I am a female, I do not wear a lot of makeup and I really like sports, but I also enjoy dressing up sometimes and I like having long hair. It's not that I am less of a female if I don't like wearing makeup - it's that I'm not buying into the cultural stereotypes about femininity. I make my own femininity.

But other people don't want that. As much as I have issues with it, if someone wants to be referred to in a certain way, just as if someone wants to change their name or be called a certain nickname, I have to respect that. You do too. Ryth is not asking us to call all genderqueer people "they" - Ryth is asking us to call them "they". It's an issue of personal respect. If you don't like it, don't interact with them, but if you do interact with them or talk about them, you need to respect that this is how they are defining themselves and as stupid as you might think it is, it is their body, their gender, their name.
edit on 12/4/2011 by spacekc929 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Kali74
 


I don't think anyone is being hateful. I think that a number of us are just sick of having to be PC about everything. It starts with this thing wanting to have it's own bathroom. Next people who claim to be dragons are going to want dragon bathrooms. I don't hate the person for not waning to be assigned a gender. I just don't want to have to learn a whole new slew (slough? screw it) of words every time some doofus wants to stir up some nonsense.


"This thing" you happen to be referring to is a human being and to put that way is hateful. PC wouldn't need to exist if once upon a time jewish people weren't shoved into ovens and black men hung from trees. Maybe we dont' do that anymore but we do other horrible things such as laugh and point and ostracize people who are sexually or gender different than you or I. Stop hating someone for how they were born and maybe people will stop having to scream to be treated equally.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 


I don't actually have a problem with transgendered people. I also don't believe it even has much to do with sexual preference and certainly not inherent deviousness. I just am sick and tired of all the PC nonsense. So now we have to add genderless to our list of socially acceptable terms.

Please do explain how my views are outdated. I know that you will most likely say gender has noting to do with your happy bits, and is a state of mind. Well fine. I no longer feel like a white man. I am now blacker than midnight, and anyone who refers to me as Caucasian will here from my lawyer. I also have 3 genders now because that's how I feel. I now require a bathroom for people like me, race displaced, 3 pronged sexual reproducer.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by Kali74
 





"This thing" you happen to be referring to is a human being and to put that way is hateful.


My understanding was that it didn't want to be called male or female. That's generally how we talk about someone. He or she. I thought I was doing what it wanted. No hate, mild aggravation. I don't hate this person. Fine, I'll start calling it person.

2nd page Godwins law. Wow.
edit on 4-12-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by spacekc929
 


I utterly resist your attempts to control my language, which are rooted in ideology rather than logic.

I utterly reject postmodern semiotic theory, which says the words a speaker uses are more important than the underlying intentions of the speaker. Hogwash! Words are inherently vauge, slippery, and unsatisfactory. Yet there is a gestalt property at work that allows people to grasp higher meanings implied by speakers that have nothing to do with word-choice. Semiotics and postmodernism simply turn a blind eye to this fact...beacuse its highly inconvenient for their ideological project.

I will speak as I always do, without shame, calmly. And those who truly wish to communicate with me (rather than pole-axe me with ideology and word games) will utilize the ancient and universal faculty of all humans to sense the underlying intentions that come through words even if they cannot be directly expressed in words. And by so doing they will know I am not a hateful man.
edit on 12/4/11 by silent thunder because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by spacekc929
 





The issue is not that this person, Ryth, wants to control you - it's that Ryth does not want to be controlled by language


And my issue is that I feel controlling my language to be 'respectful' to perhaps .0000000001 percent of the population is ridiculous. I have no issue with the LGBT community. I have an issue with people that go out of their way to create issues out of nothing. Talk about 1st world problems.




I have an issue with people that go out of their way to create issues out of nothing


I may have just stuck my foot in my mouth there lol.
edit on 4-12-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
Such a situation has come about for many people, and it happens for them biologically, as in they're like that from birth.

It's rare, but it does occur. Why does this person deserve a cookie more than any of the others?


Waking up every morning and having people place preconcieved notions on you based on their idea of what gender is sucks. The person doesn't want a cookie as far as I can tell. Yes, there are people that take things too far but mostly people just want to get on with their lives.


Originally posted by SyphonX
Why is it considered normal, or is accepted that a "transgender" man can try to 'trick' or 'seduce' a heterosexual man. Either by exploiting an inebriated man, or through calculated deceit. Basically the heterosexual man is completely non-compliant and did not consent to have relations with the "transgender", so when they find out.. naturally they become upset.

Then it becomes perfectly acceptable to mock the heterosexual and make fun of him, question his sexuality, humiliate him. It's now a societal norm. Yet if you "mock" homosexuality or question their sexuality, you are deemed an unforgivable monster. Ignorant, archaic, bigoted, etc.


What planet are you from?

The planet I'm from, it's fairly fair game to laugh at 'it' and treat trans-sexual relations as a joke. Look at the movie 'the hangover' ... and your words alone clearly indicate that you think trans people are out to 'trick'. Frankly, they're *terrified* of being in a relationship and the rammifications. *Your* fear is what causes 90% of the problem. If it was just a case of saying to a person ... oh by the way I'm not gender normal ... oh you're not into that ... okay then ... do you think we would be terrified?

The conversation is normally more like ... you're a WHAT?! Then comes the accusations of being a mutant, lying, and possibly having HepC ... cos you know, just like on Jerry, all trans people have HepC. I dare you. Go into a nightclub and go up to a member of the opposite sex and tell them you have the opposite of what you actually have downstairs and enjoy the reaction. Anyone can do this experiment, male or female.


Originally posted by Domo1
If you're born with a p3nor you are a man. If you are born with a vagina you're a woman. I am getting so sick of our society being so permissive of people's ridiculous attempts to garner attention.


If only life was that simple. In fact, even chromosomes and hormones aren't a reliable indicator of this, but it used to be so much more out in the open. Prior to urbanization of the entire planet, people knew these persons existed from an early age and just got on with it. It wasn't a big deal. The issue is the attempt to hide it. 'Keep it out of my face' you say ... You tell me how a person does that when everytime they go into a toilet there's a chance of someone freaking out.

Many gender persons feel the desire to have a private toilet because of your reactions. Notice this is *because* of your reactions. If you just ignored it, and let it be, and weren't so hostile it would be right out in the open like it used to be when we all lived in tribes together. Back then people didn't need to worry about which toilet there was, because you just pooped where ever you was.


Feelings and political dogma over biological reality: This person was born either male or female. But their feelings have become more important than facts, so no doubt to suggest that this person is, in fact, one or the other would be taken as the most blasphemous crime against politically correct cannon law. Reality takes a back seat to political correctness.


The sheer word count of your opinion in this area demonstrates your understanding. There are entire books on this subject written by people have devoted their life to researching it. They're freely available in your local library, and you should probably devour some before having an opinion on the matter.

I find it unbelieveable that a person would never ever think to enter a debate with Steven Hawking on quantum physics, knowing they are out of there league ... but as soon as it is about sexuality and gender suddenly everyone is an expert.

Last time I read some of this research, even the conservative findings didn't state ... 'if you have a pen3r you are a man lol'. A lot of the time it isn't about special attention, it's about being able to get on with your life and just not have to listen to people's crap all the time.

Sorry, I'm a little agitated by it, but this thread is no different to any other thread singling out a single person as the spokesperson for all gender people everywhere and blatantly assuming they know what people want without a modicum of knowledge of the subject matter at hand.

I can do that too just by taking a trip to my local hate website.
edit on 4-12-2011 by Pinke because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Never Despise
 


This is a whole bunch of crap, like many have said if you are born male or female even babies born hermaphrodites are tested to see witch gender is the dominat and thats how parents are recomended to chose the dominant gender.

So this bull crap of trying to create a gender that doesn't exist is nothing but that bull crap.



Dozens of grown intersex patients complained publicly about unsatisfactory sexual function or incongruent gender identity, and criticized infant surgery for intersex conditions. Some have suggested that assignments be made more tentatively and surgery deferred in acknowledgement of the possibility of a desire to change gender when the child is older (see Re-assignment, below)

Source:en.wikipedia.org...

Sadly a number of assignments have an error margin, and are based entirely on statistics. IE ... we do it this many times, and people complain about it Y number of times, so lets continue doing it. Often times the assignment is done purely on the basis of making the child 'socially' acceptable, because suicide rates etc ... climb astronomically in people without an assigned gender. I personally believe that's a social construct which hurts people.

Ideally, in many situations, it would be better to be able to wait, or not forcefully assign a gender at all. Even the best rates of success are around 90 - 95%ish ... Sounds good? It's 1 in 10. You wouldn't bet your life on it. You wouldn't like it if you were born with a 1 in 10 chance of being a mutant. Unsuccessful intersex people either want to be the other gender, or want to be no gender at all ... ie want to be themselves.

Appreciate you attempting to try, but what you say isn't correct yet, but one day we would like it to be.


How about a lecture on X and Y chromosomes? Every cell in your body has either XX or XY chromosomes. XX is female, XY is male. Not matter what you do to your physical bodily phenotype, this genotypic expression of maleness or femaleness will remain coded in every cell of your body, every hair and every pore. And that's a fact.


The same applies to chromosomes by the way ... Unfortunately, chromosomes aren't a reliable indicator and there are people born with male chromos who are female etc ... and a number of other conditions. There's quite a list actually. Some of the conditions are so rare there can't actually be any consensus either way how to handle it, and some of them have a 'standard practice' attached. Some of the standard practice might actually surprise you.

It's comfortable to think that all these things are black and white ... but they're not.

And sorry for the spam, but awful lots to cover.
edit on 4-12-2011 by Pinke because: chromosomes

edit on 4-12-2011 by Pinke because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


I don't care what you think. If you want to know why gays, lesbians, and transgenders get so outspoken, you might look at their history. They disportionately higher (and by that margin, much higher) than other groups for various types of assault.

They are openly ridiculed, and slammed in general. If they had been left alone in the first place, there would have been no need to summon up politically correct terms.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by Pinke
 


I think my point is being skewed because I brought up genitals. Let's just take that out the equation all together. I take issue with contorting the English language every time someone gets sensitive. Calling a gender neutral person a man or a woman is not like calling a black person the N word, or a homosexual a F word. There is no hate there, it's just a readily available identifier.

Do we really need separate bathrooms for gay men, lesbians, trangendered men, transgendered women, gender neutral people, straight men, straight women, and furries? No.

Also you get a star. Even though I don't agree with you, you are obviously going to be very passionate about this issue and you wrote a very good response that has made me think. The politeness is also appreciated (I should be taking notes n that part but no).
edit on 4-12-2011 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by Miraj
I don't care what you think


Nice.

Then why bother to reply?



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


No reflections on how people like you caused the problem in the first place?

Nice.



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