No Weapons of Mass Destruction.....

Kamikaze X what up with your sig?????

If the Iraqi people had not reacted the way they did, you might have some justification for what you are saying

As far as accusing this administration of lying you are premature (in more ways that one).

I do not feel attacking the whole world is the issue. Rather helping the whole world understand the realities of what is going on does at this point seem important.

The US cannot support leaders who torture and kill their own people to maintain their political power. One good reason for this is that if those leaders are overthrown the new leadership may the see the US as a Co-Conspirator. Fact of the matter is there seem to be a lot of people prepared to give the impression that is true when if fact it is not.

It is not premature to accuse the administration of lying with intent to start a mass killing. In january we were acquainted with "100% proof" that turned out to be photocopies from military magazines and forgery.

And you are mistaken Toltec, if you believe the images put forth for you by your governement about happy iraqis. Extremely many iraqi families have lost loved ones due to starvation during the embargo, which is believed as US-manufactured.

Originally posted by Toltec
Kamikaze X what up with your sig?????

If the Iraqi people had not reacted the way they did, you might have some justification for what you are saying

As far as accusing this administration of lying you are premature (in more ways that one).

I do not feel attacking the whole world is the issue. Rather helping the whole world understand the realities of what is going on does at this point seem important.

The US cannot support leaders who torture and kill their own people to maintain their political power. One good reason for this is that if those leaders are overthrown the new leadership may the see the US as a Co-Conspirator. Fact of the matter is there seem to be a lot of people prepared to give the impression that is true when if fact it is not.

My sig is a quote from 2pac. You have to understand that Bush didn't go to war to liberate the people. He said that after they didn't find any weapons. When he was a ddressing the nation and the UN he always was saying that he had to defend the country and nothing more.

[Edited on 4-13-2003 by Kamikaze X]

You have to understand that Bush didn't go to war to liberate the people. He said that after they didn't find any weapons. When he was a ddressing the nation and the UN he always was saying that he had to defend the country and nothing more. Posted by Kamikazee X

Correct. What he didnt say was what he was defending the nation from. If you read between the lines, it was defence from a non-military threat, namely the loss of the oil asset backing to the US dollar.

Kamikaze X Bush said that when the war started the US troops are present fighting a war. When the war began what part of Bush's speach said we are going into Iraq to find WMD?

All along he has been saying we are going to topple Saddam Husseins regiem and or we are going to free the iraqi people. The US is certain Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that is a motivation for going to war.

We have not even begun an active search for WMD. We have found some items which were suspect, but to say were at present focussed upon locating WMD would be inapropriate. Once the war is actually over and once the masses of Iraq have been settled down. Then and only then will an active search be completed.

Dragonrider oil is but one commodity that is just not important enough.

Originally posted by dragonrider
There will always be those who refuse to accept reality, even when they have VX placed under thier upthrust noses to sniff...

How true, Dragonrider, how true. Straight to the point. It's a pity you don't realize it.

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
Could someone please delete Thomas Crowne's nonsense ?

Could someone please delete YOUR nonsense?

What nonsense ?

WMD haven't been found despite GWB's promises !

Do you think that Saddam would let us find them? No. The United States going in there and not finding any makes them look really bad.

I'd say Saddam is doing a good job with the war. If he can't win against us in a physical battle, he can at least seperate us. Seperate and destroy, it's a great tactic.

I think this may be part of his fighting tecnique. After all, do you assume he's just some bumbleing idiot?

I'll give him that much credit.

It seems that there are a couple of guys here who don't want to see reason. It doesn't matter wether or not you offer them proof, they are so indoctrinated in their beliefs that whatever they're told here, they will argue against. In some cases black is white to them. Let's just say that their names both begin with the letter M shall we?

Fact: Saddam Hussien had weapons of mass destruction.

Fact: He used them on numerous occasions.

Fact: He did not comply with any United Nations Resolution. (This one really amazes me. The two Ms keep harping on and on about the legal importance of the UN, yet seem blind when it comes to the fact that Saddam cheated the UN for 10 years. Those aren't my words!!! The UN stated time and time again that he wasn't fully complying. You can't have it both ways boys!!!)

Fact: Saddam was a threat to world peace. If invading two of your neighbours doesn't actually make up the basis of a threat then wtf does?

Fact: Saddam had hidden WMDs in the past. UN inspectors had to actually go digging for his nasties. Again not my words. UN words.


So what constitutes reason in the 2 Ms book?
I'll tell you what - nothing. Whatever anyone says here, these two guys are never going to listen to the truth or reason. So don't take it personally guys. These guys are anti US and nothing is going to change their mind. It's interesting seeing their point of view but after a while it gets a bit tedious when you discover that they can't back up any of their viewpoints with a single fact.

I see what you mean L. If you read back on " the M" posts you can see them being proved wrong. Yet they continue to dodge out of questions, and come back with the same counter-points. Counter-points that have been proven wrong over and over.

This type of brainwashed thinking is exactly what the NWO has been doing. Divide and conquor. That way, resistance is so unorganized that it almost counts as zero.

I think the point is this...

The US stated that they knew, 100%, that Saddam had WMD's. So if they knew 100%, why can't they find them? Personally I accept that it's going to take time to find them, inspections do take time...

Yes, Saddam definitely 100% HAD WMD's. But we were lead to believe on numerous occasions that he'd use them in this war. Remember all the pictures on day 1 of reporters running around pooing themselves trying to get their chemical suits on? Remember the fear in Kuwait City as Al-Samoud 2 missiles targeted the city? Remember the red line around Baghdad where Saddam was going to use his weapons as a last resort? Remember the pesticide? Remember the nuclear program they discovered that turned out to be nuclear waste that the UN had sealed when they'd finished inspecting it?

It's not all that surprising that a continued lack of any WMD's is making some people think that the US/UK may have been lying when they said that they knew, 100%, that Iraq had WMD's.

Personally I think they will find something. But I don't think it'll be the 3500 chemical bombs, 1000 tons of VX, and 5500 tons of anthrax that they were talking about before the invasion.

And how was Iraq a threat to world peace? Who do you think they were going to invade? Luxembourg? It's dishonest to refer to attacks that occured over 10 years ago. There was not a clear and present threat.

Originally posted by dom

And how was Iraq a threat to world peace? Who do you think they were going to invade? Luxembourg? It's dishonest to refer to attacks that occured over 10 years ago. There was not a clear and present threat.

Who says that Saddam was going to make another full scale military invasion of any country? My point is that Saddam sought power over other countries. Military invasion is not the only way to do this. In fact there are far easier ways if you are minded to use them.

So, dom, do you think that if they knew where to find the WMD they would come public? What if they have insiders on...well, the inside of Saddam's circle. Would they risk the lives of these people?

I still think the reasons are good solid ones, but the intentions are the things that scare me.

The reason I see for saddam or any nation not useing these weapons and chemicals is the fact its just too dangerous. Come on its another cold war threat, you do that and we'll do this, pansies are nothing more than b-tches, please. Wind blows in every direction and would cover EVERYTHING in its path if it was laced with chemicals, whos going to take that chance?

Give it up guys. Your boy Saddam is history! As for the WMDs, why don't we wait and see whats found. its barely been a month and no one is looking for them yet. As for the sensless killing, Moku, I guess you're willing to allow Saddam to do it. I guess its not too bad when its not you living in fear of him. Now, go ahead and ask someone to delete my post too cause its a different opinion and maybe you should get the world court to outlaw all those that don't agree with yours.

Everything you guys are saying about Iraq fits the description of America so perfectly. It's sad to see that you just don't want to face the facts.

To those who are so sure that three are no WMD:

Why would Iraq need labs built on mobile trucks and trains designed for quick conceilment and movement?

Why would these labs with millions of dollars worth of equipment in them be burried and marked for retrieval?

If Saddam destroyed his WMD as he claimed, why can't he provide proof?

No one (no pun intended) can deny that the Saddam Regime has made endless blatant lies (according to them the coalition isn't in Iraq), yet many will take their word over the US. Sounds more like resntment twards the US than actually seeking the truth.

Moku

What I am saying about Saddam is that is has been proven that he is a habitual liar. But yet on the issue of WMD, we should assume he is truthful despite lying about everything else? I don't understand how this makes sense to you. Again, all he has to do is show the documentation that covers the WMD disposal, that's it. You are asking me to believe that the only thing he hasn't lied about is WMD, the only thing that he has not yet been proven a liar about, though there is overwhelming evidence. I'm sorry but I am not willing to put that kind of gamble on a one in a million chance that he might be telling the truth for the first time.

As for International law, the Coalition has not broken any laws. You may think so, but your argument would not legally hold up according to the resolution. THere is nothing wrong of course with being against the coalition action, but that alone does not make it illegal.

As for not finding anything yet, you really need to understand war to understand this. You can't search riught away. The country needs to be secured first. You may not agree with this, but those running the campagne choose not to be killed dspite your dissappointment. To do anything besides securing the area first is downright irresponisble. Not only does it put ones own life at risk, but also bystandars. This is one of the first rules of combats. They aren't worried about appeasing skeptics, they are worried about saftey and winning. I don't have a problem with you being skeptical about it, but it is totally unfair to expect them to find anything right away. Even aside from just sticking to the rules of survival/safety, if I were to bury a treasure in the state of California, how long would it take you to find it? Probably more than a couple days don't you think? The search for WMD could take many months (assuming that the country is secured soon), so don't expect anythign right away. Saddam has had many years to learn what we look for and how to conceal things (note the mobile labs found).

I hope I am not coming off as insulting. If so, I apologize, but I think there needs to be a little more reason here. No harm meant. :-)

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
What nonsense ?

WMD haven't been found despite GWB's promises !

You keep on stating it is illegal. Cite the international law that has been violated.

Wanton mass murder. What dark, ill-informed planet have you been hiding? I'm sorry, but before this, I didn't see your trap flapping about the other wanton murders going on, either inside Iraq against the people or the murder of thousands in New York a few maonths ago. You might not be smart enough to put two and two together, you might not have had the foresight to have tracked what has been going on before the Towers went down, but thank God we aren't all as ignorant of what has been going on.

Again, cite the FREAKIN' international law that the U.S. has violated. Prove it in this court of peers. And don't cite any U.N. garbage, as that is not international law, just in case you hadn't figured that out. I'm sure you haven't as you keep on talking about the group of tyrants, despots and commies called the U.N. instead of citing international law.

As far as no WMD have been found, I know your planet hasn't clued you in, but the armed forces have been fighting the guys of your hero, Saddam, and haven't had time to look for WMD hiding places. It may also surprise you in learning that in basic rtraining, soldiers aren't trained in looking for the WMD hiding places of tyrants and despots. We've been there taking care of military business for a freakin' month and you demand a chemical bomb now, but you are willing to give the U.N. many more months to blunder around, being led by Hussein's men?
You're so fast to go to U.N. resolutions as if they're international law (figure out the difference, Einstein), notice that it was Hussein's burden to prove their destruction, not our burden to prove they were still there.

[Edited on 15-4-2003 by Thomas Crowne]

[Edited on 15-4-2003 by Thomas Crowne]