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Debunk This.

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by Furbs
 




post by Furbs
That is called 'having faith' that Aliens are visiting Earth. Are you a religious person?

I wouldn't call it blind faith at all as there is plenty of evidence for the existence of Unidentified Flying Objects , but no proof that they are piloted by ET .

No I'm not in the least bit religious , in fact I would say there's more evidence for ET than there is for a God

edit on 5-12-2011 by gortex because: forgot more.... Doh !!


Every religious person thinks there is more evidence for their chosen God, mate. (That's why they believe in that particular god.)




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Furbs
 


So we have a radar blip on a tried and retested machine that suggests there is something in the sky doing things beyond our known ability, light years beyond conventional craft from as early as the 40's to present day.

Yet we trust that same machine simply because we can get feedback from plane blips directly.

So the machine is fine or not, when the data has been checked by 2 different radar systems miles apart, a plane has seen this object that corresponds to the blip ie the Japanese case from the 80's I think yet we must deny its real.

Yes there are weather issues that can cloud the blip so to speak but are these all just figments?



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


Those of you reading the OP and responding, if you base your entire set of beliefs upon the basic fundamentals of modern empirical methods, you failed this test.

The thing that is frustrating, which inevitably goes in line with the ass-backwards, deceptive society we have grown and many support, is the fact that some people, particularly in person, but even over the internet, can seem like they know what they are talking about (because many are easily coerced by either tone, brief content, or a combination). Quite the contrary, many of you "Fact warrriors" are nothing but over opinionated ass-holes...



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


Terrible faulty logic in this thread. Lots of claims do not make something true. Billions of people claim christianity, judaism, islam, mormonism, Hinduism, etc, are all true, and have claimed to see angels, jesus, demons, gods, etc from all those religions. They think there is plenty of "proof" for those things too, otherwise they wouldn't believe either. Does that make religion, all of them, true? By your terrible "logic" it does. Same with ghosts, spirits, bigfoots and so on.

Just because a lot of people think they saw something, or think that dots in the sky, stories, etc are enough evidence does not make it true or "a conspiracy" if it's not true. All it means is that human beings are gullible and are always looking to put meaning where there is none. They see a moving light in the sky and their imaginations take over. They see an "alien" or "ghost" when in bed and they assume it must be real rather than a dream or hypnagogia or whatever else.

I too, used to see "beings" that if I did not educate myself that they were the result of my sleep paralysis and night terrors, I'm sure I would be claiming to have seen aliens or ghosts too. The mind is a powerful thing and it is desperate to see what it wants to see in everything (www.skepdic.com... for example). While it is somewhat possible of course that aliens have visited earth, the fact that "lots of sightings blahblah" does not mean it must be true, that is a fools logic.

There's nothing to "debunk" here. You presented no evidence or proof, just another guy claiming his opinion is the correct one based on faulty logic. Dime a dozen mate.


edit on 5-12-2011 by darkest4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by Furbs
 




post by Furbs
That is called 'having faith' that Aliens are visiting Earth. Are you a religious person?

I wouldn't call it blind faith at all as there is plenty of evidence for the existence of Unidentified Flying Objects , but no proof that they are piloted by ET .

No I'm not in the least bit religious , in fact I would say there's more evidence for ET than there is for a God

edit on 5-12-2011 by gortex because: forgot more.... Doh !!


Every religious person thinks there is more evidence for their chosen God, mate. (That's why they believe in that particular god.)


Well technically apart from a few books from a time of great story telling there's no proof Jesus other than there may have been a man of that name who had a strong faith in what he believed in...

And even that is at a stretch..

On the other hand there's oodles of proof of odd craft, fast speeds and even possible dna / scientific other wordly properties in some of the proof e have.

Although I do not have religion I do agree regarding 'whose god you believe in', is it so impossible that the very person people have taken as god could in fact have been a visitor at some point, lots of cultures believe this.

Me, I do not believe in the nature of religion, its not the power for good its cracked up to be but if some amazing creature / man could come down and show me how he or she did things I'd certainly be inclined to believe them as a higher being.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:29 AM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


So what am i suppose to Debunk? Your opinion and hearsay?

Sorry bub that is what we call an

EPIC FAIL



People are always making these kind of posts

there are no aliens visitingng it is all hog wash nut jobs

aliens are visiting here is the proof

Only to find that said claims are not backed up and proven and empty either way

BTW I am not a skeptic or debunker I am a witness and experiencer of this phenomena. But if anything it all boils down to acceptance, either you accept this stuff is happening or you dont. But i can only speak for myself when i know there is a cover up considering the instances of deception and lies we have been told. But one must approach every case with critical thinking or else we will be forever duped away from the truth.

UFO's are a real phenomena few can argues that it is not question is if Aliens are here

How do we know that much of popular belief like Greys and people from Andromeda are not also products of disinformation? That perhaps whomever or whatever piloting these craft are something entirely different? I don't know, Miliraty Abductions.. Psy-Ops there is a game being played.

Can you prove anything? I cant prove it after a couple decades of research, i seek answers for things that still elude me. But dont let your fingers write a check your butt cant cash... just sayin. You will find many skeptics here are just frustrated with finding the smoking gun and believe there is something happening. Dont burn your bridges, you may actually learn from them. But there will always be a know it all that wants to brush all of this under the rug... it is what it is., Perception. We have been conditioned to assume these things are aliens by Hollywood and TV so if that is the case it is probably something different.

Since you shared your opinion heres mine

I think what ever they are is more complicated and significant then Alien, The alien question is not a big deal it is a probability it is a matter of travel from point A to point B. I think they are Inter Dimensional beings. This Not that that itself would be a problem for an Alien species ahead of us by millions of years. This eliminates the linear space travel issue.an advances species. Given they seem to wink in and out of our time space i think they jump back and fourth from here to there. But most craft we see are in fact black programs our own government possesses imo. I could speculate more but it would just be that.

Just my two cents take it for what it's worth


GOD is an Astronaut
edit on 5-12-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by SavedOne
I think you're confusing the term "skeptic" with "cynic".

Arey you sure the term 'Skeptic' is confused with 'Cynic'?


Everyone should be a skeptic when it comes to UFO sightings.

Are you sure everyone should consist of skeptics only? What a boring world it would be, wouldn't it?


A "skeptic" is one who objectively looks at the evidence before drawing any kind of conclusion.

You don't necessarily have to be a skeptic when looking at the evidence before drawing any conclusions.


They don't go into it assuming the sighting is legit, nor do they assume it is bogus.

Many skeptics assume it's bogus, until it's proven otherwise, well, it's very possible that extremely closed minded skeptics still think it's bogus even if it's proven otherwise. It also depends on how many people who participate in debates at each forum/thread that consist of extremely closed minded skeptics, closed minded skeptics, skeptics, Open Minded people, believers, extreme believers. And then there also are some Disinformationists (also called Disinfo Agents or Covert Agents) hired by the Secret Shadow Government who also operate at forums, and these Disinfo Agents usually mix a little truth with lots of untruths so the rest of us have a hard time unmixing it.


They simply let the facts speak to them.

They don't necessarily have to be skeptics to let facts speak to them.


This doesn't mean the skeptic does or does not believe in ET flying saucers, it simply means the evidence for each individual case is found to be inconclusive.

Skeptics, especially extremely closed minded skeptics does not believe in ET flying saucers. Inconclusive you say? It depends on what cases. I previously posted 'Alien Implants' that are concluded to be of Extraterrestrial origin, and then i also posted 'Roswell Debris tested'. I will of course post it again, if you wish



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Mclaneinc
reply to post by Furbs
 

Yes there are weather issues that can cloud the blip so to speak but are these all just figments?


Is it more likely that every single one of these unexplained blips are figments (which are proven to exist) or Aliens (which have not been proven to exist)?

Occam's Razor will go with the proven quantity every time.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:34 AM
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RATZ!!!!!!!!!!!! DUPED AGAIN!!!!!!!! I really thought i was gonna see some sort of evidence in here...........i'm gonna go cry now!



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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reply to post by darkest4
 


Whilst I could not agree more re various beliefs and of course the mind being a very powerful device (my sig sort of gives a clue there) I simply cannot rule out everything as total nonsense, me I simply want to know what the proof is for 100% sure.

I won't rehash the old maths stuff etc but I've seen two UFO's, I had my wife as a witness for one, apart from a sip of wine sometimes we are not party people, drug users or prone to abductions etc.

I SAW something that I cannot explain, I have no idea whose it was but it was well beyond anything we have ever put out via the military in size and illogical slow speed but still flying (not a balloon), one was MASSIVE and one was just super fast without any obvious noise but it did look of sorts like a jet.

The other was simply so big I have no idea what it was...

Now I'm not trying to convince people, my wife and I saw this and it was wonderful and scary at the same time but it was real, it did happen.

Basically I think its unfair to gel everyone as expecting to see an item as what their mind wants to see.

I certainly am not a person who sits with their head at the stars every night, never have been, I don't go to seminars, I don't buy the magazines and I don't sit with a tin foil hat, I'm merely a person who cannot explain what they saw and one item I would defy anyone to have a possibility for..



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by Mclaneinc
reply to post by Furbs
 

Yes there are weather issues that can cloud the blip so to speak but are these all just figments?


Is it more likely that every single one of these unexplained blips are figments (which are proven to exist) or Aliens (which have not been proven to exist)?

Occam's Razor will go with the proven quantity every time.


Occam's Razor is only a suggestion, its not a hard and fast fact..

No matter how true it might be it cannot be used to define fact, merely suggest it.

The simple fact that's being ignored here is not trying to suggest aliens but that the blips happen and in quantity to either worry about the quality of the radar operator and or the machine, these blips are important because they have tried to be explained away by natural means and failed that test, when you have more than one radar machine and a pilot seeing something then I can promise you that the last thing in that pilots mind and or the radar user is if Occam's Razor applies, they are looking at live hard data.

When it then is recorded and cannot be explained naturally then its a little more than a blip..



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by XxAcidxBurnxX
RATZ!!!!!!!!!!!! DUPED AGAIN!!!!!!!! I really thought i was gonna see some sort of evidence in here...........i'm gonna go cry now!


Thank you for adding so much to the thread.....

You input was earth shattering in its banality...



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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I will only say... Why is one piece of video evidence enough to condemn someone to life in prison or even death, yet with thousands of video, photographic and even some physical as well as first hand witnessing evidence not enough to say it is real?
edit on 12/5/2011 by CaptGizmo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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Oh well, I'm out of here on this one...

The thread has turned into the usual solid believers against the solid non believers, me, I'm where I should be, in the middle.

I don't accept things on face value, I try and investigate claims and If I see it is a fake I'm more than happy to say so. I am a believer in there being life elsewhere, as to whether it comes here I can't be sure, I'm equally open to the possibilities and the the logical chances BUT I refuse to rule anything out simply based upon what we think we know or what others are trying to convince me of either way.

In this world anything is possible, there's people who are dead set one way or the other, neither way is right...



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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I think it's all terrestial. The Nazi's pushed the envelop, not only gruesome treatment of people but also extreme science. Too bad they were monsters. But it's no secret that a lot of he scientists were "deported" to the US. Maybe that's also a reason that the US have commited atrocies in the name of "science": releasing pathogens in a population to see what happened etc.

I think the saucers are propelled by magnetic repulsion. But I don't think this is viable as it would mess up electronics beneath the saucer. Ik don't think we have space time warping needed for real fast space travel. So the saucers/UFo's that disappear either use cloaking or just go up to the highest possible altitude where magnetic repulsion still works.
edit on 5-12-2011 by QueenofWeird because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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What a horrible thread. Its people like you OP that makes conspiracy theorists look bad.
Thanks for nothing.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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I think when we stop saying the word "Alien" we are better off and on the right track to finding out what or who is behind all of this. Like i said we have been conditioned in to thinking "Alien" automatically why is that? While our governments go to no end denying the obvious phenomena even over the white house there seems to be a sub agenda to condition us to think Aliens are inter acting with the human race. By denying and being dishonest to a majority that knows better i think they want us to doubt them and think "its Aliens" and that is the whole point. They are steering us way from what they are hiding, they know every well what these things are. And i think the truth is much more profound then Alien life like i said even if they announced today it was Aliens it would not impact us as much as you think. So if you ask me these beings are able to do much more then what we have understood to think was ET. That our Governments and Militarys are totally powerless and futile to step in between Me and You and these Beings if they choose to inter act with us. And the truth may very well explain our true origins.

These craft and beings behave covertly and who knows maybe they do not want to be known, maybe we are better off not opening pandoras box. Lets just say would you rather live your life knowing you are subject to experimentation, that you are living in a ant farm of sorts or would you rather live your life without worry? Once you learn this truth there is no turning back. The government... secret one has gone to every measure to hide this from us and for a reason. What you think you know ... what they want you to know is all controlled by them.

I think i have a good idea what is going on and now i wish i didn't that's all i will say.
edit on 5-12-2011 by Unknown Soldier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by balon0
 


I thought conspiracy people make themselves look bad



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by AwakeinNM

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by jimnuggits
 





Roswell, Exeter, Pheonix, Wsahington DC, Moscow, London, and your town too. Literally every single place on the earth has many local stories associated with these phenomenon. There are far too many witnesses, artifacts, proofs, stories, historical texts, anecdotes, photographs, videos, testimonies, radar signatures, pilot and military witnesses, physical evidences, ancient architectural anomalies, etcetera, for these ALL to be hoaxes.



But unfortunately, no concrete, undeniable.......proof.


That's exactly what a skeptic would say. Let me remind you that eyewitness testimony is admissible in court as evidence. I have seen one, my family members have seen them. That is proof enough for us.




edit on 4-12-2011 by AwakeinNM because: butterfingers


It may be admissible, but even the experts agree it is unreliable.

"Prosecutors recognize that eyewitness testimony, even when given in all honesty and sincerity, isn’t necessarily credible. Merely because a person claims to have seen something does not mean that what they remember seeing really happened — one reason why is that not all eyewitnesses are the same. To simply be a competent witness (competent, which is not the same as credible), a person must have adequate powers of perception, must be able to remember and report well, and must be able and willing to tell the truth."

"Thus, such testimony can be critiqued on several grounds: having impaired perception, having impaired memory, having inconsistent testimony, having bias or prejudice, and not having a reputation for telling the truth. If any of those characteristics can be demonstrated, then the competency of the witness is questionable. However, even if none of them apply, that does not automatically mean that the testimony is credible. The fact of the matter is, eyewitness testimony from competent and sincere people has put innocent people in jail."



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 12:21 PM
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In case you haven't noticed OP, you really can't ruin a skeptics day. They have one thing that makes them one step ahaead. That is the old "Post pictures, videos are some kind of evidence or it never happened!". So I wish you the best of luck to try to convince them otherwise.


-SAP-




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