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Debunk This.

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by WatchRider

Originally posted by Argyll
reply to post by jimnuggits
 





Roswell, Exeter, Pheonix, Wsahington DC, Moscow, London, and your town too. Literally every single place on the earth has many local stories associated with these phenomenon. There are far too many witnesses, artifacts, proofs, stories, historical texts, anecdotes, photographs, videos, testimonies, radar signatures, pilot and military witnesses, physical evidences, ancient architectural anomalies, etcetera, for these ALL to be hoaxes.



But unfortunately, no concrete, undeniable.......proof.


Wrong!
We have the Aussie guy with the hair of the 'alien' girl.
DNA evidence dude.

What Aussie guy? What DNA? What alien hair? Has the CSIRO validated this? I haven't read anything about it in the Scientific Australian. In fact it's never made the news. No DNA evidence of aliens in Australia as everywhere else I think.


Sigh, it's alright I'll do your homework.

Watch and learn padawan...



DNA! Check!
Polygraph! Check!

Links! Check!

Even the most die-hard skeptics and nay-sayers are scratching their heads on that one...




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 05:56 AM
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How about this? In the over sixty years since Roswell, there is no clear evidence, no actual spaceships, and no press conferences indicating the presence of alien life.
reply to post by Druid42
 


How about this?

You actually bother looking into it. So I guess the "Disclosure Project" doesn't count because Greer is an idiot? All the witnesses lose there credibility because of one man? Or is it because a national government hasn't hosted a conference on the matter? God knows the governments of all the major world powers have so much credibility to them!


edit on 5/12/11 by Morg234 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 06:51 AM
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My original premise still stands.

Even if we factor in a large amount of 'hoaxes' and 'swamp gas,' we are left with a handful of events that are multiple witnesses, physical evidence laden, and beyond these terrestrial explanations.

Proof is not a picture or Youtube video.

It is a series of corroborated events that were witnessed by policemen, astronauts, military brass, with indentations left where they landed, anomalous elements, even implants that have physically been removed from people who have absolutely nothing to gain from making this experience up out of whole cloth.

Yet, skeptics and debunkers refuse to even consider the possibility that these events are real...



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 06:53 AM
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Sounds like to me this should be in the "Rant" forum. Because that's what this thread is. Ranting.

If you can't handle the debunkers, then prove them wrong.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by WatchRider

DNA! Check!
Polygraph! Check!

Links! Check!

Even the most die-hard skeptics and nay-sayers are scratching their heads on that one...


Shaking their heads in disbelief more likely.

This is one of the craziest "alien" encounter anecdotes. So a guy claims he found an extraterrestrial pubic hair behind his foreskin after he chewed off an alien's nipple. What more proof do we need!


Actually, here's some - If you watch the movie The Exorcist, during a party scene a drunken Burke Denning slurs, "there seems to be an alien pubic hair in my gin." Amazing how these ET pubes get around!



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:08 AM
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You simply CANNOT debunk UFO's...FACT

You can however debunk individual cases..FACT

On paper because of maths we are almost 100% sure there are other lifeforms of unknown intelligence beyond earth, ignoring the maths its simply understandable that we believe we are not alone, not only is it a safety mechanism built into our minds (who wants to believe its only them in the world or universe) but its also a pretty safe bet.

So we take the likely outcome of others and then decide if these people could be more intelligent than us, again, it would be arrogant to believe we are the best of the best in the universe, its also maths wise very likely that some will be more able than us mentally, I refuse to use the word evolved as we have no idea of the species.

We are now asking ourselves how these people could come such vast distances because scientifically we know its not possible...

And therein lies the problem, OUR science, we are mere amoeba's scientifically, even now we are finding out new developments that we previously had said were impossible. So now we have to decide if the aliens if you will either can come the distances, or they can bend space to make the distances tiny or they are here already and living on the moon and on earth somewhere be it now or at some time previous.

All these are possible, we simply cannot rule them out based upon OUR science ability.

What we can do then is cross reference based upon out tech at the time of the sighting if any proper evidence was left for us to have a real hard look at. Time has proved over the years that photographs and film have over time become more easy to fake, even in the 1900's onwards were were doing special FX shots in films. That said the average owner of a camera type device in those times would not have the skills to fake a shot easily bar throwing hub caps in the air or hanging them on fine thread. Some found photographs show stuff that is well beyond those simple fakes.

We also have many written reports going over thousands of years, civilisations have built their way on things apparently coming from the sky and helping them, whilst many would be stories from a time of story telling we cannot dismiss them all.

As our level of science grew we were able to plot these on radar which leaves us with a huge number of cases where the radar data was verified, unmistakeable from working tested machines. Yes there would be many many down to atmospheric conditions ala swamp gas etc but there were also hard cases that via our tech at the time seemed impossible to recreate any other way.

We also now are finding that professional people are more willing to come forward and report, people who credibly is seriously at stake yet still choose to. We are also aware just how secret the government and military have taken this apparently 'nonsense' idea. They spent millions in keeping reports both hidden and people told not to speak of them, are we to assume that this was all down to ultra secret military craft and missions?

I very much doubt that..

So, we are left with a sizeable amount that simply cannot be explained, a percentage to high to ignore, data to important to ignore and people entrusted with our safety who still come out to say what they saw.

To ignore all this would be a major self abuse of our brain, whilst its always easy to just pretend some issues do not exist it simply does not make them go away or make you right for thinking so.

Once you have taken any medical problems into account, taken drug or alcohol problems, items able to be scientifically explained at our level away then you are still left with something we should never ignore.

We so arrogantly expect that these beings would introduce them selves to us first hand, why should they, perhaps while monitoring us over time they have seen that the more we supposedly evolved the more savage and dangerous we became, the more set out on a goal of destruction. Even with intervention from them these days we would still attempt to militarise and help given, the want of power more important over the weal being of the people and the world.

Perhaps they indeed have helped at some times, yet we still do it all wrong..

Again I say that if aliens had gave us a way to make free energy as claimed then why would they still allow us to not use it after all this time, would they not be asking us why and then decide it was being wasted and remove the option or announce it world wide?

Perhaps these visitors are not the gentle beings we presume, but just use us as a resource, perhaps many types do the same?

But at the end, ignoring alien powers etc, we must not debunk the whole UFO ideal because it suits some, there's data that says otherwise and we must carry on looking with better eye's until we either fully admit its true or disprove it all finally, to purely ignore it all is a crime against intelligence....
edit on 5-12-2011 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:14 AM
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reply to post by WatchRider
 




post by WatchRider
Sigh, it's alright I'll do your homework.

Homework incomplete .
Is there any confirmation of this other than DISCL0SUR3 ?


post by WatchRider
DNA! Check!

A link to the DNA results , the name of the lab that conducted the test please .


post by WatchRider
Polygraph! Check!

Same question .

Anyone can make crazy claims but without the evidence to back them up they remain just crazy claims .



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by gortex
And hopefully one day we'll get solid proof of it , but until then we KNOW nothing , we just have tiny parts of a much larger puzzle.

And here are the solid proof of tested alien implant and concluded to be of Extraterrestrial origin , 'Roswell debris' tested



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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It would seem that Peter Khoury is no stranger to Alien visitation .
The sex with the female Alien happened in 1992 , this one happened in 1988 .....no sex this time




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


Great post. S&F.

I would love someone who thinks like this to contribute on my 'Disclosure' Thread.




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by Xcalibur254
...but the field of Ufology has been a complete joke ever since it pretty much accepted the ET hypothesis without contest.... but once again there is no actual proof that such beings exist.


the people with the correct intuition knew ahead of the rest and did you ever consider the actual reality of the existence of interdemensional/extradimensional/or whatever beings is beyond any "proof" our minds can imagine? What makes you think you can understand things you have no words for?



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Myendica
You provide no evidence, no images, videos, or eye witness testimony..

debunked..?


Sometimes evidence is in your own eyes and some others are to blind to see...We walk around with blinders on everyday...How many people are not so busy enough to see the color of the sunset....Not to many i think....Evidence is everywhere>>we need to not only open our eyes,,we need to open our brain and heart to the evidence that can not be debunked....If you are always looking for the scam then then that is what you will get..If you want hard proof evidence you have to believe in the evidence that has been giving to you...

Are these blinders we all wear keeping us safe or hindering knowledge that maybe we are to scared to see......that's all



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
...but the field of Ufology has been a complete joke ever since it pretty much accepted the ET hypothesis without contest.... but once again there is no actual proof that such beings exist.


the people with the correct intuition knew ahead of the rest and did you ever consider the actual reality of the existence of interdemensional/extradimensional/or whatever beings is beyond any "proof" our minds can imagine? What makes you think you can understand things you have no words for?


Perfectly said...If you have no words for it then you have no evidence...Broaden the horizon in the brain and really think about the evidence given,,,



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits
Yet, skeptics and debunkers refuse to even consider the possibility that these events are real...


I think you're confusing the term "skeptic" with "cynic". Everyone should be a skeptic when it comes to UFO sightings. A "skeptic" is one who objectively looks at the evidence before drawing any kind of conclusion. They don't go into it assuming the sighting is legit, nor do they assume it is bogus. They simply let the facts speak to them. In the vast majority of UFO cases, the skeptic concludes that the evidence is insufficient to make a determination. This doesn't mean the skeptic does or does not believe in ET flying saucers, it simply means the evidence for each individual case is found to be inconclusive.

A cynic on the other hand is one who doesn't even consider the evidence, they reject it without even reading it, and they usually dismiss it with derogatory terms attacking both the argument and the person behind it.

I see people griping about "skeptics" here all the time when in fact they should be embracing skeptics, because the skeptics are the only ones that are legitimate seekers of truth. The cynic is always going to reject everything UFO-related and the "believer" is always going to accept everything UFO-related. We have plenty of both on ATS, and they frequently butt heads. Only the skeptic brings reason to these threads.



edit on 5-12-2011 by SavedOne because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by jimnuggits
Yet, skeptics and debunkers refuse to even consider the possibility that these events are real...


I think you're confusing the term "skeptic" with "cynic". Everyone should be a skeptic when it comes to UFO sightings. A "skeptic" is one who objectively looks at the evidence before drawing any kind of conclusion. They don't go into it assuming the sighting is legit, nor do they assume it is bogus. They simply let the facts speak to them. In the vast majority of UFO cases, the skeptic concludes that the evidence is insufficient to make a determination. This doesn't mean the skeptic does or does not believe in ET flying saucers, it simply means the evidence for each individual case is found to be inconclusive.

A cynic on the other hand is one who doesn't even consider the evidence, they reject it without even reading it, and they usually dismiss it with derogatory terms attacking both the argument and the person behind it.

I see people griping about "skeptics" here all the time when in fact they should be embracing skeptics, because the skeptics are the only ones that are legitimate seekers of truth. The cynic is always going to reject everything UFO-related and the "believer" is always going to accept everything UFO-related. We have plenty of both on ATS, and they frequently butt heads. Only the skeptic brings reason to these threads.



edit on 5-12-2011 by SavedOne because: (no reason given)


Well said...We have to also realize (man my bird is screaming) off topic....OK yes i totally agree with you on your statement....but after we see the proof and have checked it out some will still look away...I have proof of spirits in my home and have showed my husband he just looked the other way..I have proof on a cassette tape of one of the spirits and he believed for just a short moment..

It seems that its just how we are made or how we conditioned our mind in thinking..Even if the proof is right in front of us some still reject it and walk away...Interesting



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:55 AM
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Without skeptics you would have no real proof. You would end up with a group of backslappers feeding each other's egos and tall tales with their own brand of confirmation bias. The perfect term for this would probably be removed if I typed it, but it involves a group of people standing in a circle and engaging in a... ahhh.. "mutual endeavour"


People do not naturally attempt to "prove" anything, they summarise. They form an opinion and a confirmation bias to support it. They gloss over what doesn't support their conclusion and exaggerate what does support it. This is entirely human and entirely natural.

--| "I saw a UFO!".

The skeptic is not necessarily someone who does not believe, but rather someone who does not accept without question the opinion of another.

--| "Really? What exactly did you see?"

Without the skeptic to reply to, the witness would probably never set out the details to let others form their own opinion. After all, from the point of the view of the witness, why would they need to? The witness has already done all the hard work of evaluating the data and has presented the only thing the listener needs to know - it was a UFO.

--| "Well, I saw some lights, moving together, forming a triangle, heading over my house. I could hear this loud roaring sound."

Without the skeptic asking awkward questions, the witness is also likely to conveniently blank out what doesn't help his case.

--| "What colour were these lights?"

--| "One was white, one was red, one was green..."

--| "And where did you see these lights?"

--| "Coming from the south of my house..."

--| "Is there anything located south of your house?"

--| "Yeah, there's an airport..."

--| "You mentioned a roaring sound - could you describe it in more detail? Is there any sound you could compare it to?"

--| "Yeah, it was like the kind of sound you get when an aeroplane takes off..."

The people who are experts at dealing with evidence and eyewitnesses are found in the courts. They adopt the adversarial approach for a reason - it is very effective. It is not about attacking the witness, or destroying the evidence (necessarily), it is about raising the doubts and putting the questions to the witness to see what they say. As our resident Barrister/UFOlogist IssacKoi can probably confirm, if you wish to rely on something in a closing speech, you need to put it to the witness first. You need to make it clear that the matter is in dispute and the witness needs a chance to give his answer.

If your evidence stands up well to this scrutiny then congratulations, you have advanced your cause well. If your evidence does not then let's be honest, the evidence wasn't good enough to support whatever you were asserting.

So, next time you feel like someone is picking on you, daring to question your "evidence" and bullying you by failing to accept your word without question, remember this: evidence which has not been put to proof is no evidence at all.

TLDR summary: It might sting a bit but it's for your own good. The truth will out.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


Great post OP! I agree that when taken as a whole this type of phenomenon is undeniably occuring. If its a manmade coverup/hoax or otherworldly beings its hard to say, but there is far too much evidence to say nothing is going on.

I think it is the same type of denyability to save the comfort level that was occuring during world war 2. Even up to the date of the US invasion into Germany, many across the globe did not want to accept the travisty being commited on the jewish population could possibly be occuring. It was after the fact that the world finally saw how far it had gone and had no choice but to accept that it happen. At which point it was already too late.

A similar denyability to save comfort level is occuring now with this. Regardless of if this is top secret weapon testing, or aliens conducting experiments, it is outside of what would be considered a comfortable topic to discuss for most people. Much like discussing politics in a church or discussing church with a politician.

The truth is, a real public discussion is neccessary for our understanding of this topic, but until people are willing to step out of their comfort zone a real civil discussion on these issues will never occur publically.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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Typical 'believer' nonsense.

Create the absurd straw man position that skeptics believe all those events are down to hoaxes, and then ridicule that position that no sane person actually holds, in order to make your own not-quite-as-absurd hypothesis seem more reasonable.

As a skeptic, "hoax" is a pretty rare explanation for UFO events. Don't oversimplify/misrepresent your opponent's position, actually listen to what the skeptics have to say, and you might learn something.

Believers feel the need to make the skeptic's beliefs seem far-fetched because it puts them on level footing, as that is how they must feel about their own. I think I speak for the vast majority of us when I say we'd all like Aliens to be real, but for something as wonderful and life-changing as that, we want real solid evidence of extraterrestrials, not anecdotes and as-of-yet unexplained phenomena that may have have a somewhat mundane explanation.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 10:09 AM
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The way i see it, Pro or Con, It is all in the each individual interpretation. if they are a firm believer or a total skeptic.

You can interpret all ancient drawings , architecture , writings that seem to be interpreted by ancient alien theorist as fact and that's what really happened,.

Or mainstream and skeptic No that's not what happened or that doesn't mean that or it was ergot poisoning ('___') that's why they drew and made those statues that look like that, or just fanciful drawings and stories or you just don't know what you are looking at and let an expert tell you what it is or not.

Or it could be a combination of all the above from both sides and no one is completely right or wrong.

As far as most UFO reports go today ,a big part i do believe are hoaxes, but there are many unexplained events by people of all walks of life and know what they saw and nothing can change that or some really believe what they saw was something unexplained. None of us here on ATS where there to prove or disprove what these people saw, but can only give our biased opinion.

Reports and stories are all thru history and again the further back the less clear the explanation of the sighting or report or the story, and that is being interpreted by today's standards and again interpret by believers and skeptics.

Photographic evidence is sketchy depending when it was taken. if it was in the last 10 -15 and digital you should get a much better picture and its really easy to hoax but i'am not saying that certain photos aren't real.

If the photo was taken before that and on a $19.99 kodak instamatic or polaroid camera by the average unskilled person, results will most likely be poor, so even if it was a real picture of a UFO it be a pretty crappy one at that.

And for the eye witness not everybody carried or carries a high quality camera or has time to get the cellphone out in time and may not have time to focus in on what ever they think they see to get a clear photo and may not get a second chance or just may get one shot and the memory is full so only got one.there could be a million reasons to why or why not a photo was or was not taken.

So again its all in the individuals interpretation and sometimes proof (photo, video or whatever) or lack of it or over whelming amount of it, doesn't prove anything one way or the other, unless it can be touched and held, smelt so on.

But i doubt we are alone. that would be egotistical and arrogant to think we are it, the one and only, the top of the food chain, and if there are others we are more advanced and smarter then anything out there. Like they say in racing and gun fighting there is always someone faster and better then you so don't get to cocky.

So stay humble, maybe one day in our life time we will find the truth, which ever side of the coin the truth falls on.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by humphreysjim
Typical 'believer' nonsense.

Create the absurd straw man position that skeptics believe all those events are down to hoaxes, and then ridicule that position that no sane person actually holds, in order to make your own not-quite-as-absurd hypothesis seem more reasonable.

As a skeptic, "hoax" is a pretty rare explanation for UFO events. Don't oversimplify/misrepresent your opponent's position, actually listen to what the skeptics have to say, and you might learn something.

Believers feel the need to make the skeptic's beliefs seem far-fetched because it puts them on level footing, as that is how they must feel about their own. I think I speak for the vast majority of us when I say we'd all like Aliens to be real, but for something as wonderful and life-changing as that, we want real solid evidence of extraterrestrials, not anecdotes and as-of-yet unexplained phenomena that may have have a somewhat mundane explanation.


It is certainly important for even the most open minded to remain skeptical to a degree, at least until undenyable evidence is presented. I don't think its so far as believers want the skeptics to say "aliens are testing humans", but more so atleast the admission that at the very least, this many reports for this long must show some kind of phenomenon is occuring. Be it man made or not...



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