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Originally posted by jimnuggits
Welcome to rational thought ladies and gentlemen of ATS...
I know it is against ATS protocol to shine light in the corners, but I feel compelled to try my hand at dispelling the ignorance that the propaganda of BOTH sides of the UFO/Alien question has submitted to the discussion.
First let me say that I am here to ruin the local skeptics and debunkers collective day.
Roswell, Exeter, Pheonix, Wsahington DC, Moscow, London, and your town too.
Literally every single place on the earth has many local stories associated with these phenomenon.
There are far too many witnesses, artifacts, proofs, stories, historical texts, anecdotes, photographs, videos, testimonies, radar signatures, pilot and military witnesses, physical evidences, ancient architectural anomalies, etcetera, for these ALL to be hoaxes.
To what end would such a vast and unneccesarily complex hoax be perpetrated? WHy would so many generations, whom could not agree on anything else, conspire to perpetuate this otherwise destructive and irrelevant game?
You may look at one particular incident and say, 'hoax' or 'swamp gas', but a cursory look at the bigger UFO/Alien picture paints a very telling story.
We are not alone.
We never have been.
Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and skeptics revel in using it as an argument against EBE and UFOs, yet, when all of these factors are taken into consideration, a very different paradigm emerges.
It is time to stop the denial and move on with the conversation. Agreed?
Originally posted by watchdog8110
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Originally posted by Phage
How much consistency is there in the various reports? I mean the few reports which are not hoaxes, misidentified planets or meteorological phenomena, rocket launches, sky lanterns, and various others. There are huge objects, small objects, incredibly fast objects, slow objects, objects which make radical maneuvers, objects which simply zip across the sky, objects with lights, objects with no lights, fleets, singles, landings, no landings, submersibles...
One thing I find interesting is the advancement of spaceships over the years. They seem to advance linear to human imagination capabilities of the times. Today we have complex space craft, but 100 years ago they were rather simple. Just look at a site that shows the progression of UFOs and you all will get my point.
It really pushes us to see it is just a sub-cultural of us humans creating it all.
BTW why would a alien "SPACE" craft have lights at all...do they need to follow FAA rules?
How many different colors are in the spectrum and how many would one need to bend to make themselves invisible ?
Originally posted by Xtrozero
Originally posted by watchdog8110
How many different colors are in the spectrum and how many would one need to bend to make themselves invisible ?
Visible light is rather narrow on the spectrum and if one "bended it" we would most likely see a bend across all the colors and not blinking lights, or steady lights, or lights at all, but maybe just a faint wave.
We still are theorizing all of it with zero tangible proof. I have as much proof in saying it is all just glowing flying elephants. I think that is just about every skeptic's point in there is no proof to say anything at this point in time. UFOs are just a cultural PHENOMENA and unless there is actually real evidence it will stay just that.
Being a cultural phenomena it doesn't take much effort to see why so much of your so called evidence pours forth.
Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by jimnuggits
If they are not travelling great distances and if they are ET, where did they come from?
I was merely stating that when one combines ALL the variables, events and elements involved with an extraterrestrial visitation scenario, in the present and past, you have a much smaller amount of 'entities' in the equation than if you had to find disparate alternate explanations for them all.
How much consistency is there in the various reports? I mean the few reports which are not hoaxes, misidentified planets or meteorological phenomena, rocket launches, sky lanterns, and various others. There are huge objects, small objects, incredibly fast objects, slow objects, objects which make radical maneuvers, objects which simply zip across the sky, objects with lights, objects with no lights, fleets, singles, landings, no landings, submersibles...
You cannot "combine all the variables" because you've got apples, oranges, and kiwi fruit. You must look at each case in and of itself. And, if appropriate, you can then apply Occam's razor.
Without some common thread it makes no sense to just say "Well, it happens so much (even though it doesn't really) it can only be extraterrestrial". Of course, should ET choose to make himself known it would make it all moot.
Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and skeptics revel in using it as an argument against EBE and UFOs, yet, when all of these factors are taken into consideration, a very different paradigm emerges.
Originally posted by Furbs
Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and skeptics revel in using it as an argument against EBE and UFOs, yet, when all of these factors are taken into consideration, a very different paradigm emerges.
Apply Occam's Razor then..
The simplest answer points squarely at terrestrial origin.
Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Originally posted by Furbs
Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and skeptics revel in using it as an argument against EBE and UFOs, yet, when all of these factors are taken into consideration, a very different paradigm emerges.
Apply Occam's Razor then..
The simplest answer points squarely at terrestrial origin.
FURBS....Occam's Razor does apply....but it applies to two realities. It is not the fault of Occam's logic that this is so....it is the very nature of the question that allows logic to dictate these answers.
Split Infinity
Originally posted by Tearman
But people don't agree about what constitutes reasonable evidence of ET visitation. Somehow it must be established that a sighting involves a) something undoubtedly artificial, and b) from outer space.... and just to be sure someone doesn't call me on it, c) not originally form earth in the first place.
We obviously don't all share the same threshold for what counts as evidence of these three qualities.
Originally posted by Furbs
Apply Occam's Razor then..
The simplest answer points squarely at terrestrial origin.
Originally posted by TeaAndStrumpets
This reasoning is alarmingly common. Until two years ago, I was guilty of it too! So I understand where it comes from. But then I read. There really ARE cases where the evidence for *something* quite odd is strong enough that it's just unreasonable to deny it.
Originally posted by TeaAndStrumpets
Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
Can you offer up a quick list of the mountains of cases of independantly corroborated sitings of exactly what you stated above? I am focusing on the last part myself.
Ahhh... I see! One of "those" skeptics, are you? You're not actually aware of the strongest cases, right? A disciple of that special brand of ATS YoutubeFOlogy skepticism? Hoping I'll cite Billy Meier or something?
Or... you are aware of the truly puzzling cases, but are just betting that I am not?
Or... a third option... you're one of the naive ones who embraces those Phil Klass-style ridicu-bunkings?
I hate to be cynical and condescending,
but there's a strong hint here that you're either ignorant of the topic's history -- of the number and quality of multiple-witness and radar-visual cases -- or that you're exactly the kind of "skeptic" who would accept as evidence nothing short of the White House lawn scenario. And I no longer engage with such people. They're unreasonable. That's not skepticism. It's inexcusable head-in-the-sand denial.
If you tell me, however, that you've read Bluebook, Condon, McDonald, Sturrock, etc., and that there are actually UFO cases that genuinely puzzle you, then I'm thrilled to invest some time examining their strengths and weaknesses. But as it stands now, I'd bet money you've not even read most of the primary source material related to the UFO topic. ??
I could be wrong, in which case I'd be sorry. But you must understand how your words have presented the odds.
And finally, just so that I can't be accused of avoidance, I'll list only one case that I personally find highly strange, with quite a bit of corroborated evidence that I'm unable to simply dismiss, and that is the Minot B-52 case.
Originally posted by Algernonsmouse
Originally posted by AwakeinNM
Thousands of photographs exist of something that resemble craft that people have witnessed and testified to (not necessarily in court). So basically skeptics maintain that every single one of those photographs must be hoaxed, witness testimony be damned?
Not very open-minded.
No. Where do you get this from?
Skeptics demand proof of just what exactly is in the photograph.
How can anyone claim to know exactly what they are or where they come from? So what is wrong with asking that what they are be proven?
Originally posted by jimnuggits
Welcome to rational thought ladies and gentlemen of ATS...
I know it is against ATS protocol to shine light in the corners, but I feel compelled to try my hand at dispelling the ignorance that the propaganda of BOTH sides of the UFO/Alien question has submitted to the discussion.
First let me say that I am here to ruin the local skeptics and debunkers collective day.
Roswell, Exeter, Pheonix, Wsahington DC, Moscow, London, and your town too.
Literally every single place on the earth has many local stories associated with these phenomenon.
There are far too many witnesses, artifacts, proofs, stories, historical texts, anecdotes, photographs, videos, testimonies, radar signatures, pilot and military witnesses, physical evidences, ancient architectural anomalies, etcetera, for these ALL to be hoaxes.
To what end would such a vast and unneccesarily complex hoax be perpetrated? WHy would so many generations, whom could not agree on anything else, conspire to perpetuate this otherwise destructive and irrelevant game?
You may look at one particular incident and say, 'hoax' or 'swamp gas', but a cursory look at the bigger UFO/Alien picture paints a very telling story.
We are not alone.
We never have been.
Occam's razor states that the simplest answer is usually the correct one, and skeptics revel in using it as an argument against EBE and UFOs, yet, when all of these factors are taken into consideration, a very different paradigm emerges.
It is time to stop the denial and move on with the conversation. Agreed?
You've asked great questions and come to an equally worthy conclusion. But unfortunately, those who should be leaders in this subject are cowards, relying on limited human knowledge to deny what is staring them in the face.