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Debunk This.

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posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
So....it is not that intelligent life is rare....it is just....at what point in time do they live before possibly become extinct? Split Infinity


Perhaps it is likely that countless civilizations have come and gone in the universe even before human civilization got its start...BUT, I think that given the size of the universe, there is almost certainly other intelligent life out their right now as we speak, living at the same time as our life here on Earth.

However, also given the vastness of the universe, it may be hard for that life to actually stumble upon us.



For us...Humans....finding a radio signal or any other type of particle/wave communication that is confined to our knowledge of ability of what exists and how to access it with current levels of tech.....is very HARD!

A Race in advancement of us of say 5000 years or more or a bit less....would have the means to locate our endless broadcasts into space.....even though they have only have been broadcast for about a century in one form or another.....by the way....this is the arguement of some very bright but dumb people who have said.....well....traveling at the speed of light....less then 100 light years distant has our broadcasts reached and at that distance and interfearence with all sorts of intersteller dust or gas or whatever....that degrades the signal....they have not heard us! Split Infinity

.




posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 08:57 PM
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continued....but they have by their means of tech. Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy
reply to post by dilly1
 

the knowledge we have today of the natural world is peanuts compared to the entirety of the whole. It's egoistic to think we have the final say on how things work. We have no words for anything outside our realm of existence so I'd be careful how you try to convince yourself what is possible or not.



Did you read my post? I clearly stated the 3 vital ways to travel in an infinite universe. Which are impossible to achieve unless we acquire some new alien physics. Do you know something I don't. I doubt it. Could new alien technology exist here on earth, maybe , maybe it was suppressed? Who knows. But right now with what we know are those three vital areas.


How do you know our knowledge is peanuts compared to the entirety of the whole? And don't get me wrong, you mite be right. But its all speculation. All we can work with his human logic. Anything else is just guessing.


Is there a 4th item you would like to share. I would love to know.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by dilly1
... I clearly stated the 3 vital ways to travel in an infinite universe. Which are impossible to achieve unless we acquire some new alien physics. Do you know something I don't. I doubt it...
How do you know our knowledge is peanuts compared to the entirety of the whole?
Is there a 4th item you would like to share. I would love to know.



#4= "some new alien physics"

existence of aliens=new technologies

do you actually claim our science is the end all sum with nowhere to advance to? I don't have to know specific examples of the technology in order to claim there is more out there than we currently know of. It follows reason



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by jimnuggits
 


Exeter New Hampshire? Really?

I rarely look up anything on here just read the ones that make it to the front page. If Exeter NH can you give this lazy guy a link. Thanks in advance.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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If you want to use Ockham's Razor then alien's aren't real and it should be explained away as unknown weather phenomona.

Ockham's Razor in the simplest terms says that when looking at competing hypotheses that the one that makes the fewest new assumptions is the correct one.

When you want to look at something like an unidentified flying object and give it meaning you can do one of two things,,

assume it is an unknown weather phenomon since there is still so much about our planet that we don't yet know and as for pictograms, assume people were just bad artists.

or

assume it is an intelligent race (something we have yet to find on our planet or our solar system) then assume that they have the technological means to travel long distances in space that are faster than the speed of light and still the objects remain relatively small (in some cases crafts that would hold only a few people our size, something we have yet to accomplish), and then assume that in the vastness of space they managed to find our planet (a planet we would consider definitively hospitable has not yet been achieved with current technology) and finally assume that they have had a reason to continually visit our planet over the ages.

You need to make four assumptions and that wouldn't include any assumptions made to support the fact of why haven't people found some definitive proof that has made it into the media (such as a body or piece of technology) because all that time you are also assuming that these creatures are infallable and don't make a mistake.



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by fwc577
 


Oh....they are definitly not infailable! Cause and Effect and the random chaos of Nature which is not really random at all.....can kill them just as easily as it can kill us. Split Infinity



posted on Dec, 5 2011 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by bottleslingguy

Originally posted by dilly1
... I clearly stated the 3 vital ways to travel in an infinite universe. Which are impossible to achieve unless we acquire some new alien physics. Do you know something I don't. I doubt it...
How do you know our knowledge is peanuts compared to the entirety of the whole?
Is there a 4th item you would like to share. I would love to know.



#4= "some new alien physics"

existence of aliens=new technologies

do you actually claim our science is the end all sum with nowhere to advance to? I don't have to know specific examples of the technology in order to claim there is more out there than we currently know of. It follows reason


Aliens could exist. But getting here is a whole different scenario. And humans somehow acquiring this alien ability is close to a joke. Again, unless you know something that I don't .

Your tone sounds a bit like a religious person having faith on god. You have faith that there just mite be new physics out there do the sheer size of the universe. Hate brake it to you ,but what we have is it . If something new happens great but I wouldn't bet on it ,in your lifetime or hundred years from now(or even much longer). But keep hoping.


So for recap , currently there is ONLY 3 points needed for space travel.

Light speed
Worm holes
Immortality


And FYI ,for us to even scratch the service into discovering new physic on our own,humans must restrict aging. "Life is too short" . That saying goes a long way. A lifetime, right now, is not good enough to create new physics that would solve daunting universal enigmas.


That's reality. But enjoy your faith.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 02:16 AM
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Originally posted by watchdog8110
Are you 100% positive ?


When the experts do not acknowledge something , does it make it debunked ?


What makes them experts? ... and more to the point, who are THEY?



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by jimnuggits
reply to post by Argyll
 


I would imagine that empirical evidence would be extremely easy to keep out of every other channel if an organization of unlimited resources and single minded focus were dedicated to that end.

Out of the billions of people on the planet, only a very small handful would even be able or willing to recognize the pattern, fewer still would attempt to record and broadcast it.

And even then, only a small portion would be ready, able and willing to hear the 'truth,' once broadcast.


Now, that doesn't make any sense, to me ...

Knowing my fellow man, who has only one thing on his mind ... earning money ... and knowing the human desire for a "super entity" known as God ... or spiritualism ... or, call it what you want. Human beings hunger for this, and therefore it's a hot thing ... easy money. How many young girls did you have, that went into "sex" colonies, thinking they were being saved by the local priests? ... of course, they weren't really looking for GOD, but rather an excuse for their own sexual desires ... but comes down to the same thing.

This thing, sells like hot pancakes.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by maddog99
I was replying to those who comment that traveling the universe or multiverse if you will is impossible.

Not necessarily impossible. It depends on how advanced the different kind of alien technologies are. Reportedly a team of scientists and military personnel were invited to Zeta Reticular Starsystem (about 37 light years away), and it reportedly took them 9 months to travel at the distance of 37 light years in their EBE spaceship. While other reports show that it took Pleiadians to travel 7 hours from planet Terra to Earth at a distance of 420 light years. Why 3.5 hour to travel out of Terra, and 3.5 hour to travel to Earth? Semjase reportedly told that they need to be at least 150 million kilometers away from the starsystem before they can travel at a 'Split Second' between these vast distances. Andromeda contactee Alex Collier told that Andromedans travel across the galaxy at a 'Split Second', and also reportedly travel through a wormhole to Andromeda Galaxy. And Billy Meier was reportedly invited aboard a Pleiadian mothership and travelled to another galaxy were they reportedly visited an Earth-like planet there, were two superpower nations were about to declare nuclear war against each other, when one of these nations fired a nuclear missile, the Pleiadians reportedly make that missile disappear from the 'Thin Air'.
www.abovetopsecret.com... According to Chrisitan Krukowski there exist over 40 million different kind of human looking alien beings with 343 different kind of skin colors reportedly exist in this Universe, and that about 7 million and 500 thousand different kind of human looking alien species reportedly exist in this Galaxy.
edit on 6-12-2011 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Anunaki10
Not necessarily impossible. It depends on how advanced the different kind of alien technologies are. Reportedly a team of scientists and military personnel were invited to Zeta Reticular Starsystem (about 37 light years away), and it reportedly took them 9 months to travel at the distance of 37 light years in their EBE spaceship. While other reports show...


And herein lies the problem. This is given to us as fact - even the language used ("report", "reportedly", "reports show") suggest a factual basis of some kind.

As with many of these posts, it also starts of with some major suppositions - that (i) there is alien life, that (ii) there is more than one kind of alien life, that (iii) any or all of those aliens have what could be considered technology, that (iv) the technology is "advanced" - by reference to who? Presumably the reference is today's human technology. What criteria are you applying for "advanced" status?

Your post is requiring us to blindly accept so many "facts" and suppositions that it is simply not useful in its own right. As a starting point for a great discussion - yes. But the problem is that the discussion would start off as a series of questions to try and verify what you are suggesting, which would lead many here to make claims of skeptics and nay-sayers being wilfully blind to what the world can clearly see. I suggest that it's not the skeptics who are suffering from this particular malady.

Skeptics are like the builders, who go up to the architect and say "Well that design is very pretty, but I can tell you now that if you build it like that... it will fall down". You can't say the big picture is important while glossing over the nuts and bolts - or castigate those who ask about the nuts and bolts - because without them the whole thing collapses. Perhaps if the architect would listen to the builders, the final product would stand firmly and weather more attacks.



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by bjarneorn

Originally posted by watchdog8110
Are you 100% positive ?


When the experts do not acknowledge something , does it make it debunked ?


What makes them experts? ... and more to the point, who are THEY?


The experts that say they don't exist .



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by watchdog8110

Originally posted by bjarneorn
What makes them experts? ... and more to the point, who are THEY?


The experts that say they don't exist .


Most debunkers don't say "they [visiting aliens] don't exist"... Or at least they are not saying "it is impossible for Alien visitation to be happening".

I think most debunkers probably think it may be possible for an alien to visit earth. They are just saying they don't have the evidence to say the it is definitely happening. Only the pseudo skeptic would say "it is 100% impossible for aliens ti visit Earth". The good skeptics don't think that way; good skeptics are open minded (even more open minded than blind believers).

There is a difference between believing something is possible and knowing something is happening. You shouldn't need to take a leap of faith to "know" something.
edit on 12/6/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by watchdog8110

Originally posted by bjarneorn
What makes them experts? ... and more to the point, who are THEY?


The experts that say they don't exist .


Most debunkers say "they [visiting aliens] don't exist"... Or at least they are not saying "it is impossible for Alien visitation to be happening".

I think most debunkers probably think it may be possible for an alien to visit earth. They are just saying they don't have the evidence to say the it is definitely happening. Only the pseudo skeptic would say "it is 100% impossible for aliens ti visit Earth". The good skeptics don't think that way; good skeptics are open minded (even more open minded than blind believers).

There is a difference between believing something is possible and knowing something is happening. You shouldn't need to take a leap of faith to "know" something.


Whether they make the open conformation to others that they do , the coming out of the closet or pulling their head out of the sand . Fear factor of ridicule or acceptance from those that do and have seen them may be what holds them back . I can make reference to what I have seen through a well accepted source on the net all day long . The same thing over and over , if it is not having the same appearance as us is it a non alien ?

Thats just way way out there , the thing is obvious as for being an alien species and yet because it doesn't look like us and act like us it is not acknowledged . Am I peed , sure but what ever . If I perhaps over stepped the terms of ATS and called out the debunkers to do their stuff and got nothing back from them . Was I right or wrong in looking to them for conformation ?

Do I have to have a PHD to make it more believable , well thats pure ignorance and arrogance . Bloody shame that everyone has to have that shiny ship with little green / grey beings on it to make it real . They don't teach this stuff ( ET's and their Ships 101 ) in omg higher learning facilities , they would get laughed at .



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by watchdog8110
 


First of all, I accidentally ommited an important word in my post. I meant to say "Most debunkers don't say 'they [visiting aliens] don't exist'...

Secondly, I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

Scientist (and skeptics) are generally open-minded to all possibilities. They both certainly think that intelligent life probably DOES exist elsewhere in the universe. And the think it may be possible for that life to be visiting the earth. However, they need more empirical evidence other than the UFO sighting and abduction stories and anecdotes to make them think alien visitation is actually happening.

You seem to believe that scientists hide their belief in life elsewhere, or hide their ideas on the possibilities interstellar travel. I don't see them hiding. It's been my experience that science and UFO skeptics have many exciting ideas about life elsewhere, and the possibilities of something like wormhole travel. I'm not saying it is something they spend their careers following, but it is definitely not something they are afraid to talk about or think about.

However, scientists and good skeptics know that just because life may exist elsewhere, and that their may be a possible way to harness a wormhole for travel, that doesn't mean that aliens are visiting the Earth. And the UFO sightings and visitation anecdotal stories aren't enough, either.

It's not that they are afraid to talk about it. It's that science requires more evidence and less "belief".



edit on 12/6/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 09:09 AM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by watchdog8110
 


First of all, I accidentally ommited an important word in my post. I meant to say "Most debunkers don't say 'they [visiting aliens] don't exist'...

Secondly, I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

Scientist (and skeptics) are generally open-minded to all possibilities. They both certainly think that intelligent life probably DOES exist elsewhere in the universe. And the think it may be possible for that life to be visiting the earth. However, they need more empirical evidence other than the UFO sighting and abduction stories and anecdotes to make them think alien visitation is actually happening.

You seem to believe that scientists hide their belief in life elsewhere, or hide their ideas on the possibilities interstellar travel. I don't see them hiding. It's been my experience that science and UFO skeptics have many exciting ideas about life elsewhere, and the possibilities of something like wormhole travel. I'm not saying it is something they spend their careers following, but it is definitely not something they are afraid to talk about or think about.

However, scientists and good skeptics know that just because life may exist elsewhere, and that their may be a possible way to harness a wormhole for travel, that doesn't mean that aliens are visiting the Earth. And the UFO sightings and visitation anecdotal stories aren't enough, either.

It's not that they are afraid to talk about it. It's that science requires more evidence and less "belief".



edit on 12/6/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)


I am going to assume you have not seen what I was referring to , and I'll send you a U2U regarding the link . It has been a thorn since that day and I wish I never noticed it at all .



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by dilly1
Aliens could exist. But getting here is a whole different scenario...unless you know something that I don't .


your biggest mistake is believing the rest of the universe is on our time schedule. what makes you think our limited knowledge of physics hasn't been surpassed by alien cultures that are millions of years older than ours?


Originally posted by dilly1
Your tone sounds a bit like a religious person having faith on god. You have faith that there just mite be new physics out there do the sheer size of the universe. Hate brake it to you ,but what we have is it . If something new happens great but I wouldn't bet on it ,in your lifetime or hundred years from now(or even much longer). But keep hoping.


it may sound that way to you about me being religious but you are wrong. just as you are wrong about your comment "what we have is it". Actually you are making my point for me, what we have is all we have- but that in no way should imply there's nothing left to be learned. Believing that is silly and not really worth arguing with.


Originally posted by dilly1
So for recap , currently there is ONLY 3 points needed for space travel.

Light speed
Worm holes
Immortality


And FYI ,for us to even scratch the service into discovering new physic on our own,humans must restrict aging. "Life is too short" . That saying goes a long way. A lifetime, right now, is not good enough to create new physics that would solve daunting universal enigmas.


That's reality. But enjoy your faith.



how about quantum entanglement as the 4th one? as a matter of fact you are boring so don't bother replying



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People


It's not that they are afraid to talk about it. It's that science requires more evidence and less "belief".




talk is cheap, they should study the different fields but that would take away their funding. There is so much evidence out there and it only take a few solid pieces to make the rest of the puzzle fall into place. As of now the details are shredded and most likely being obscured even further by the forces who would lose power if the revelations became common place. And those forces are the ones singing the well intentioned scientists' paychecks so why would they want to lose that? It's very simple



posted on Dec, 6 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People
 


I wish there were more people like you in the way you think. You based a possibility of befief in a possible or impossible or even improbable or probable reality....on observation, logic, probability.....and perhaps more.

I have said MANY times....If proof is not given.....then you shoudn't believe it. But that does not mean that it does not have merit for a person to investigate based on probability of likelyhood or not.

Thanks. Split Infinity



His point is what I keep on saying about my view on the subject of ET visits, so there are others of that kind. For me the NOISE about aliens is too much to ignore,,, that's all

As for the possibility of life existing elsewhere, and as being a former believer of traditional science, not time travel, not ET visits, here is a discovery of an Earthlike planet in the habitable zone of another solar system (and I thought the Gliese system is the most interesting so far)

www.nasa.gov...

According to scientists, it would take (Millions? Could be hundred thousands) of years to reach that planet with a shuttle. Do you think with this silly technology anyone's gonna go anywhere?

So the possibility of having technology seeing UFO cases that allows a much more rational way to go such distances is likely not only on the agenda, but maybe exists already.. Least of all this silly way of traveling has to be replaced

I only don't know how the NASA keeping secrets and technology and working with the current primitive technology (compared to what conspiracies offer as technology) match? It doesn't make sense
edit on 6-12-2011 by Imtor because: (no reason given)



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