Lets get to the bottom of this - how many Abduction cases can we really debunk?

I want to start a project. It seems to me that all that really happens around here is the same arguing over and over again. And the funny thing is, each side thinks there winning. The believers think that the "evidence is overwhelming", and the debunkers think there is none. But we never really get anywhere. I want to start a project to see whose side the evidence is really on.

I have compiled a list of abduction cases from UFO casebook and posted a link below. Lets see how many of these we can debunk or prove. When everything is finished how many will be proven? Debunkers, show us what you got.

ufocasebook.com...

1950s Reed Family Abductions
1961 Betty and Barney Hill Abduction
1967 The Betty Andreasson Abduction
1967 Abduction of Herbert Schirmer
1968 The Buff Ledge Camp Abduction
1969 The Antonio da Silva Abduction
1973 The Doraty Abduction, Houston, Texas
1973 Pascagoula, Mississippi Abduction (Parker, Hickson)
1974 Hunter Abducted in Wyoming
1975 The Abduction of Sergeant Charles L. Moody
1975 The Travis Walton Abduction
1976 The Stanford, Kentucky Abductions
1976 The Allagash Abductions
1978 The Cullen Abduction
1978 The Dechmont Woods Abduction
1978 The Abduction of Jan Wolski
1980's Lost Time/Abduction in New York
1980 The Alan Godfrey Abduction
1983 The Copely Woods Encounter
1983 The Abduction of Alfred Burtoo
1985 Abduction of Wladyslaw S.
1985 Abduction of Whitley Strieber
1987 Abduction on North Canol Road, Canada
1987 Hudson Valley Abduction
1987 The Christa Tilton Story
1987 The Ilkley Moor Alien
1987 The Jason Andews Abduction
1988 Abduction of Bonnie Jean Hamilton
1988 DNA Sample From Khoury Abduction
1989 Linda Cortile-Napolitano Abduction
1992 The A-70 Abduction
1993 The Kelly Cahill
1994 Abduction in Killeen, Texas
1997 Abduction in Wales
1997 Abduction in Australia, (Rylance-Heller)
1999 Carlyle Lake Abduction
2001 Abduction in Michigan
2003-Abduction in Florida
2004 Francis Family Abduction
2005 Man Abducted in Florida
2005 Clayton & Donna Lee Abduction


Do your own investigation or post a link to a different one. How many of these can we cross off?

Not enough

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Abductions are stories , told by the ones that were abduced ( no other witnesses) . So you can just say every single one is false because there is actually no proof .

reply to post by OrNaM3nT


But there is proof.

reply to post by OrNaM3nT


That is not true. Check out the travis walton abduction. www.ufocasebook.com... sometimes there are more witnesses.

reply to post by thesearchfortruth


How many cases can you prove?

Start with the assumption that none of them are true unless they can be proved to be real.

reply to post by WeMoveUnseen


Thanks for the addition. The only problem I have with Dr. Leir is that we basically have his word for what is happening with the implants. No one else has ever checked over his work. If that happens, I think Dr. Leir has the smoking gun. But until then, we only have his word.

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by thesearchfortruth

 

How many cases can you prove?

Start with the assumption that none of them are true unless they can be proved to be real.

edit on 4-12-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

Thats a good point.

But the witnesses are telling us they were abducted. I want to see how many cases we can disprove. See, as long as there's no alien body or something it is very hard to PROVE someone was abducted. I think that if we cannot disprove that someone was abducted then that case should be considered as evidence of something unknown. No, not neccisarily aliens. I hate it when people assume something with so little evidence or information about a subject. For all we know the "aliens" could be time travelers, extra dimensional beings, you name it. But if we can't explain it as anything known. It must be unknown.

Better question...

...how many can be proven? It is not the responsibility of the world to disprove a case but that of the claimant to prove their claims. UFO believers want it the other way around and for good reason.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
reply to post by WeMoveUnseen

 

Thanks for the addition. The only problem I have with Dr. Leir is that we basically have his word for what is happening with the implants. No one else has ever checked over his work. If that happens, I think Dr. Leir has the smoking gun. But until then, we only have his word.

Several other professionals have spoken about the authenticity of the implants. Try and find some of the Coast to Coast radio broadcasts featuring Dr Leir and Budd Hopkins amongst others. The phenomena is real, i do not rule out the possibility of it being a possible Black-ops programs. Military personal are often witnessed during abduction reports.

In fairness reading about the subject will help you understand the overall nature of the phenomena. I've included a link to a PDF of Budd Hopkins classic - Missing Time.

Try and find time to read it!

www....(nolink)/?vac5f6k8xp103mk

reply to post by thesearchfortruth


Its a fun idea but since its never been proved that aliens exist , have visited the earth, are visiting the earth , have the motive to abduct people or any abduction has ever happened you have to Start with the assumption that none of them are true unless they can be proved to be real.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Thats a good point.

But the witnesses are telling us they were abducted. I want to see how many cases we can disprove. See, as long as there's no alien body or something it is very hard to PROVE someone was abducted. I think that if we cannot disprove that someone was abducted then that case should be considered as evidence of something unknown. No, not neccisarily aliens. I hate it when people assume something with so little evidence or information about a subject. For all we know the "aliens" could be time travelers, extra dimensional beings, you name it. But if we can't explain it as anything known. It must be unknown.

It's a bad idea to start with the assumption that your hypothesis is correct and then search for evidence to disprove it. For one thing, you can't "disprove" anything. What would it take for an abduction scenario to be solidly disproven in your consideration?

reply to post by OrNaM3nT


That's not quite true. Injuries, needle marks and implants are often found in abduction cases, which corroborate the stories. This, of course, isn't concrete evidence but it should be enough to consider. I mean, if this was a person allegedly abducting people, that evidence would prompt investigations. Since we're talking about aliens though, of course it is discounted.

Originally posted by WeMoveUnseen
Not enough

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

edit on 4-12-2011 by WeMoveUnseen because: (no reason given)

All of the Lier "implants" that I've seen are completely consistent with the removal of a standard, earthly foreign object (tip of a pencil lead, metal BB, metal sliver, etc.) that was embedded many years prior.

Nothing that Lier has removed from a patient looks technological to me.

Originally posted by wirehead

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Thats a good point.

But the witnesses are telling us they were abducted. I want to see how many cases we can disprove. See, as long as there's no alien body or something it is very hard to PROVE someone was abducted. I think that if we cannot disprove that someone was abducted then that case should be considered as evidence of something unknown. No, not neccisarily aliens. I hate it when people assume something with so little evidence or information about a subject. For all we know the "aliens" could be time travelers, extra dimensional beings, you name it. But if we can't explain it as anything known. It must be unknown.

It's a bad idea to start with the assumption that your hypothesis is correct and then search for evidence to disprove it. For one thing, you can't "disprove" anything. What would it take for an abduction scenario to be solidly disproven in your consideration?

I would have to agree - While I can see the OP's intention, it really is a non-starter. We can get into endless discussions about the credibility of the people and their stories and at the end no one will have proven or disproven anything.
I could claim that I was abducted last night - how could that be disproven? And trust me, I'll come up with a halfway decent story, I'll find enough people right here on ATS that will believe me.

So, OP, do you have any ideas on how you would want to go about this project? What would the criteria be to call an abduction story proven or disproven?

Why does this have to be about people debunking these stories? The burden of proof lies on the one making the claim and its up to these people to provide evidence that stands up to scrutiny. Get over the them and us nonsense when it comes to these claims. I`m sure most debunkers, as you call them, would n`t mind some real evidence but unfortunately are forced to call people out time and time again because the other posters are unable to bring any kind of quality control to the stuff they post.

reply to post by wirehead


Can you provide any evidence the implants removed were pencil lead and such as, or is that just your opinion?

I think its going to be difficult to disprove or prove any alien abduction. Some of the accounts are pretty interesting and I guess you either "believe the witness" experienced what they say, or you don't. Interpreting their experience is also another problem, since these are outside the realm of normal experience.

I'll add another case:
October 1957 - Antonio Villas Boas abduction in Brazil.

He recalled his experience in detail without the "aid" of hypnotic regression. He did stand by his story until he died in 1992.

you missed the abductions of enoch, elijah, and jesus.
i'm sure there's more before 1950

Originally posted by wirehead

It's a bad idea to start with the assumption that your hypothesis is correct and then search for evidence to disprove it.

isn't that exactly the debunker's prerogative though?? i guess they take it one step further by skipping the 'searching for evidence part'. why bother doing that when you can just call hoax or make up a random theory off the top of your head? i guess they call that 'denying ignorance'.

the guy who screams lens flare/lanterns is as deluded as the guy who screams reptillian shapeshifting hybrid, if you're going to be truly balanced.

basically, anyone who believes solidly in either side of the argument without experiencing something personally cannot have a truly valid opinion; that's why it usually takes a personal sighting to make a believer (or 'intriguer' as i like to think of myself) out of somebody. the only difference is, the amount of evidence for alien presence continually grows, where as with each passing day the debunking theories get more tenuous and nonsensical.

also skeptics, quit demanding evidence if you're just going to say bs like 'i dont know, i just dont think it looks technological enough to be real' when it is actually presented in front of you. you have to see the hypocrisy of this.

i myself remain optimistic that all will be revealed within the next few decades or so.