Iran shoots down US drone – state TV

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

I'll let us agree to disagree, because I need more data to go on for now.

I've, for a while now, thought that the craft probably got totaled and that this is indeed a rough sketch mock up. It just looks awkward to me.

Research the definition of "leading edge" and look at the principles of wing design.

The evidence now points to Iran (with the help of Russia of course) actually being able to land it. The radars that they just got from Russia could easily disrupt the sat link, from there it was just a matter of establishing a line of sight radio link and landing the craft. The damage could be because the only way they could do this was to shut down the engine, other wise it's failsafe programming would have it going back toward the originating airfield.

Remember that our drones have been found to contain spyware in the past, and that Iran and Pakistan are buddies who are both being overflown by these drones.

And remember that these overflights have been going on for 4 years, in plain sight in Afghanistan. It wasn't a secret, it's nickname is the Beast Of Kandahar. All the Iranians would need is a simple radio requency scanner to figure out which freq they use on takeoff and landing.

But keep in mind, Iran didn't do this alone, Russia is very involved with Iran. And they love to make the USA look bad.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


But you cannot do that without compatible controls. And that is not a single frequency. That would be bad design.

I still think they pretty much just got lucky.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

But you cannot do that without compatible controls. And that is not a single frequency. That would be bad design.

I still think they pretty much just got lucky.

You can call it luck if that's what helps you sleep at night, but I seriously doubt it.

If Russia can bring one down over Russia, they can bring one down over Iran.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by bruwin

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

And I wonder how this news will be spun in the Western mainstream media. I bet, just like the other incidents, it'll just be ignored because the fact that the US is the aggressor here doesn't fit into the whole "Iran is a dangerous terrorist nuclear state that must be stopped" agenda.

Iran wants of whole race of people wiped of the face of the earth and America is the threat? Really? I think it's unfortunate that we are only sending drones over their air space. A squadron of B-52s would be much more appropriate.

Iran "wants a whole race of people wiped off the face of the earth"? And your solution is to wipe Iran off of the face of the earth with a "squadron of B-52s"?

WTF are you smoking?

[

It very simple military strategy; kill...or be killed. If you think they are going to stop at Isreal you are delusional.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Hi Freakshow, I can see you're new to ATS so you may not know that site is a hoax site, and that thread is in the hoax forum.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It would probably be best if you didn't cite anything from that site on ATS again, hoaxes are not welcome here.

Welcome to ATS.

Thanks for pointing this out, and i apologize for posting from a hoax website.

Originally posted by bruwin

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by bruwin

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

And I wonder how this news will be spun in the Western mainstream media. I bet, just like the other incidents, it'll just be ignored because the fact that the US is the aggressor here doesn't fit into the whole "Iran is a dangerous terrorist nuclear state that must be stopped" agenda.

Iran wants of whole race of people wiped of the face of the earth and America is the threat? Really? I think it's unfortunate that we are only sending drones over their air space. A squadron of B-52s would be much more appropriate.

Iran "wants a whole race of people wiped off the face of the earth"? And your solution is to wipe Iran off of the face of the earth with a "squadron of B-52s"?

WTF are you smoking?

[

It very simple military strategy; kill...or be killed. If you think they are going to stop at Isreal you are delusional.

That is a horrible strategy based of false facts that are designed to mislead the weak-minded from the actual geopolitical strategy. Thank God you are not in a position to carry out your "pre-ventative" war.

If you really want to learn something about geopolitics, read "The Grand Chessboard" by Zbigniew Brzezinksi. The book is written by a key US policy maker and clearly outlines the real overlying strategy that makes the whole "Iran is a dangerous country out to attack us" story look like the words of puppets.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


When did they bring one down over Russia?

Good job on Iran's part.

It's about time people stand up to "team america world police"

we have too many problems at home to be trying to force U.S. branded slavery erm.. I meant "democracy" on countries that do not want us.

no wonder we are the most hated country in the world, we are worse than the old nosy neighbor trying to force everyone into our political correctness.

I hope Iran knocks every damn one of them down.

Sooner or later, Americas ignorance has to end, they do everything freely. I heard a joke earlier, and the funniest thing, thats exactly how it would play out. I can't find it but it basically played out like this :
America: Lets make an alliance.
Russia: Ok! We are allies now!
Russia: We have an alliance why are you pointing that gun at me?
America: What? Oh just in case you try to do something I wanna be prepared.
Russia: Oh ok, since you have your gun out, i'll just take out my gun too.
America: TREASON! TRAITORS! HOW COULD YOU BREAK OUR ALLIANCE LIKE THAT? I'LL TURN YOU INTO RUBBLE!
Pretty much went like that. But back to original statement, sooner or later, America needs to grow up, I hate that whole " We get to do whatever we want" thing. I'm a born American by the way. I still support this country, it's still great.

reply to post by Cito



I want to ask how you can say that while claiming "deny ignorance"

I understand things for bombs and for intrusions. Not for spy drones. When you violate a nation's borders and shoot down their people, that's wrong. When you pop into a nation and take a few photos, I almost want to say that its your right to.

Logic dictates, at least at the scale of a nation, that if you're trying to hide something, it's probably not good for many people besides yourself.

Spying, frankly, might just be one of those unwritten "I can do it if I want to" things. I mean it's not like were installing cameras in the Ayatollah's bathroom. We're taking pictures of his yard. Why can't we do that?


I hope we do this even more. Hell, I'd like to see Iran do it too, so they can see how to build sky scrapers rather than tanks.


I wonder just how violent the two countries would be to each other if their people could both log onto google earth and take a virtual stroll down each other's blocks. Believe it or not, US sanctions block export of google earth to Iran.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Logic dictates, at least at the scale of a nation, that if you're trying to hide something, it's probably not good for many people besides yourself.

No, logic dictates that when another nation flies aircraft in your airspace intentionally and without permission, secretly at that, then it is a hostile act.

If it is the US's "right" to fly spy craft over other countries, then why aren't they screaming for war since Iran obviously just hindered this "right"?

The logic is dead wrong. The only reason why a country with a history of provocation such as the US would send drones over a nation that it wants regime change in, is to scout targets. Any idiot with perception into recent history knows this.

On top of this, this goes beyond the fact that it's just a recon craft. First off, it was operated by the CIA. CIA isn't exactly some friendly neighborhood security guard- they assassinate people who don't bend to American interests.

Secondly, the fact that it was a hostile aircraft raises many alarms. Considering it is an aircraft designed for a low RCS, then what could it be seen as by those observing it? It could have been a B2 with a dozen tactical nuclear missiles primed to kill thousands of Iranians. The Iranian military would have been doing a serious dis-service to their nation if they did not intercept this, or any hostile craft for that matter.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

No, logic dictates that when another nation flies aircraft in your airspace intentionally and without permission, secretly at that, then it is a hostile act.

No. Because independent people have done this many times for their own personal non-violent reasons. Flying over area 51 because they wanted to see, flying over North Korea because they wanted to preach some religion. It is not a violent act. Hell, it's a victimless crime.

If it is the US's "right" to fly spy craft over other countries, then why aren't they screaming for war since Iran obviously just hindered this "right"?

We have been for a while, what with the inability for religious types to go there and preach what they want, and what with the prolitically active types not being able to say what they want, etc etc. We've been crying for war for nearly a decade now, actually. If the US really was all gung hoe for war, it would have happened in 2001-2004ish. The fact that we have not attacked them yet does not say we are afraid, it means we actually do respect their soverignty to some degree. Their government is compelx and not so easy to understand. You cannot simply say that the government is wrong and must be brought down, or that regime change has to occur, because Iran does not have a single regime, nor a single government. It's a complex system of governing that you cannot generalize.

The logic is dead wrong. The only reason why a country with a history of provocation such as the US would send drones over a nation that it wants regime change in, is to scout targets. Any idiot with perception into recent history knows this.

All nations have a history of provocation. There is no nation on this earth that was not founded by the theft of the land from another. Even Iran. Furthermore, you could just as easily do this with a satalite. That's why satalites were invented. I can go on Goggle Earth, bring up photos of any country I want, and select targets too. It's not the purpose for a spy drone. Spy rones observe in real time the movement of people and resources, where as satailtes move too fast to do this usually.

On top of this, this goes beyond the fact that it's just a recon craft. First off, it was operated by the CIA. CIA isn't exactly some friendly neighborhood security guard- they assassinate people who don't bend to American interests.

They also gather intelligence. Quite a number of CIA agents have been ousted and killed in nations we never went to war with.

Secondly, the fact that it was a hostile aircraft raises many alarms.

It had no weaons to my knwolege. How could it have been hostile?

Considering it is an aircraft designed for a low RCS, then what could it be seen as by those observing it? It could have been a B2 with a dozen tactical nuclear missiles primed to kill thousands of Iranians. The Iranian military would have been doing a serious dis-service to their nation if they did not intercept this, or any hostile craft for that matter.

I was talking primarily in the topic that we had no right to fly there. Not that Iran had no right to shoot it down. I would expect no less from a clearly bomber-looking craft. But, to say they all ought to be shot down, and that air space is this and that, is pretty silly 50,000 feet up in the air. Airspace never really made much sense to me. When we have flying cities, then you can go fight over air. Until then, it's air. We all share the air. We all breathe in Ukranian and Japanese radiation, we all brethe in California smog, we all breathe in China's pollution. We all own the air. Air space rights beyond protection from suicide events like 9-11 seems pretty silly to me,

I don't know whether this has been posted yet -- But Iran claimed that it was a U.S. drone missile attack that almost completly destroyed it's solid fuel missile testing research center, a weeks and a half ago; along with the death of the general in charge of solid fuel missile technology in the blast.

This blast of the solid fuel test center, is a big setback for Iran.


Cheers,

Erno86

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

But you cannot do that without compatible controls. And that is not a single frequency. That would be bad design.

I still think they pretty much just got lucky.

It really would not be that hard to do with the right tech. I think the achiles heal of the US is there reliance on technology. Blow a few satalites out of the sky and t hack a few servers he US is a blind sitting duck. Everything goes online these days, boats, planes, helicopters... You try aiming a missle without GPS...

reply to post by purplemer


Actually that's why the internet was invented. Networking in a closed "net". You use single, closed systems, and you're fine. You cannot hack a system if it is not designed to have more than one user with a specific code number.

What, do you think they use things designed to have multiplayer capabilities?

reply to post by Gorman91


Yes you can hack into closed systems. All networks have vunrabilites... But idm you can think what you want...

reply to post by purplemer


You can't hack into closed systems without proper identification and understanding. You need the device in your hands before you can hack into it.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by purplemer

 

You can't hack into closed systems without proper identification and understanding. You need the device in your hands before you can hack into it.

It would take a radio signal, like the ones they could have recorded at the airfield where it takes off and lands.

Give them some credit, they're not total morons.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


I'm not saying they are morons. I'm saying that, in the field of electronic warfare, they have no clue what they are doing. You can even tell by the way they described how they did it.

Fact is that if you're using radio signals to hack into it, you wouldn't even need to be in Iran to do it. Just a cleverly placed Russian satellite.

I just don't see how you can pop a signal and bring it down. Even my computer has a multitude of signals for just a simple command.

it's fake....that's not the real one.