Iran shoots down US drone – state TV

A self or remote destructive mechanism should have and I would assume has been placed within the unit. Maybe they will detonate it when the Red Chinese experts try to open it? I hope that they do. I am sure they are listening to whatever is going on from within the unit. If not, this is a huge error for The USA. With that being said, Iran has every right to shoot it down, even though by the looks of it, it was never shot down. Maybe a malfunction or also could be the result of a Red Chinese hacker. ~SheopleNation

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Whose to say they would know they did. If they tried to make a mock up, there's no reason to doubt that they accidentally used the wrong color.

Why would they purposely change the color?

It seems logical that the craft had an error and crashed. I'm told now some are saying a falling leaf styled crash would preserve most of it.

Don't be surprised to read about some accidental explosion in Iran, again, if this is true.

Just a couple thoughts here looking at recent replies.

The paint scheme itself is top secret, color and composition. To state that it's the wrong color is preemptive, don't compare it's color to google images or diagrams.

The only 'self destruct' mechanism a UAV would most likely have would be an emergency zeroize of it's internal electronics. Which one could imagine may not be executed if control of said aircraft is completely lost.

I find it very interesting that they chose to drape and camouflage the undercarriage of the aircraft. The reasons for doing so could be numerous. Aircraft is a mock up. Taunt US Military officials attempting to positively identify it. Conceal undercarriage damage taken during landing. Or they can't figure out how to lower the landing gear and conducted a gear up landing.

I personally feel that any sort of stalled/flat spin crash would have led to much greater damage than can be seen in the footage released.

Food for thought.

reply to post by Sek82

The paint scheme itself is top secret, color and composition. To state that it's the wrong color is preemptive, don't compare it's color to google images or diagrams.

Why? Every other drone is painted the same color. These drones are so high altitude that color doesn't matter. Materials do. Materials often can show what something is made of. If all drones have similar materials, which in turn have similar colors often, then we can use it to see just how likely a supposed image of a drone is legitimate or not.

The only 'self destruct' mechanism a UAV would most likely have would be an emergency zeroize of it's internal electronics. Which one could imagine may not be executed if control of said aircraft is completely lost.

Or it could have crashed, because they don't have the technology to properly hijack a us drone.

I find it very interesting that they chose to drape and camouflage the undercarriage of the aircraft. The reasons for doing so could be numerous. Aircraft is a mock up. Taunt US Military officials attempting to positively identify it. Conceal undercarriage damage taken during landing. Or they can't figure out how to lower the landing gear and conducted a gear up landing.

Probably either it was a fake, or it was damaged a lot and they want to make it look perfect.

I personally feel that any sort of stalled/flat spin crash would have led to much greater damage than can be seen in the footage released.

Indeed. Which is why this is very likely a mock up. Look at the video again, I beg you. In one scene, the dude pops a part out like it doesn't matter. Not good for high altitude, high winds craft.

Originally posted by Gorman91
Indeed. Which is why this is very likely a mock up. Look at the video again, I beg you. In one scene, the dude pops a part out like it doesn't matter. Not good for high altitude, high winds craft.

I disagree with that.

In fact, the higher the altitude and wind resistance, the less that it really matters. This is because an aircraft flies, not by propulsion through air, but by creating a vacuum over its aerodynamic surfaces that continuously carry on the aircraft along the flightpath.

Compartments that can be opened by the hand are more vulnerable during direct air resistance against the surface itself, like during a space shuttle launch/re-entry. But just by going through the air, horizontally, is not as big of deal. And it's not as if this drone is breaking sound barriers or anything that would do serious damage to its structure from the outside in.

I would say that the size and shape of this craft make it very solid, compared with the larger B2 anyways. If a B2 turned too hard too fast, it would have a much higher chance of breaking a "wing" which would probably result in catastrophic structural failure.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I don't know how that could be true. If you can remove a part as easy as pulling it off, then no matter what you are doing, that's not good in the air. What if you do a barrel role? oops, there goes an important part.

A plane is indeed a solid state vacuum creator. How does it do that with loose parts disturbing air flow and stuff?


I still think wind patterns would cause problems. We get them with passenger planes. Why not with drones?

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

I don't know how that could be true. If you can remove a part as easy as pulling it off, then no matter what you are doing, that's not good in the air. What if you do a barrel role? oops, there goes an important part.

A plane is indeed a solid state vacuum creator. How does it do that with loose parts disturbing air flow and stuff?

We're discussing how a guy opened a compartment with his hands on an unmanned drone. The drone itself is built to allow this type of easy access by maintanence crews. The compartments aren't made to be lose, just accessible by hand.

And on top of this, we are making determinations from a short video. For all we know, the Iranian re-engineering team already ripped this thing apart and broke any locking mechanisms, hence why the guy knew exactly what to grab and open with easy access.

I still think wind patterns would cause problems. We get them with passenger planes. Why not with drones?

I don't get what you're saying. I was assuming that when you were first talking about wind patterns, that it had something to do with the wind blowing the drone around after it had stopped functioning properly.

What the wind has to do with drones seems inconsequential to me. We're talking about small military drones that have advanced automatic stability controls. They can brace the wind much more efficiently than any civilian plane, especially considering that there is no human pilot to interfere with auto-stabilization measures.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


I don't know about that. Anything that you can easily open by hand will also easily open in air pressure.

Also, know everything about the craft's compartments? In just a few days? Again, that's suspicious to me.

I don't get what you're saying. I was assuming that when you were first talking about wind patterns, that it had something to do with the wind blowing the drone around after it had stopped functioning properly.

That, and other problems small aircraft have with winds. Ever play with model airplanes? Something a larger plane would be totally unaffected by can become deathly for a smaller craft. It's all a matter of scale.

What the wind has to do with drones seems inconsequential to me. We're talking about small military drones that have advanced automatic stability controls. They can brace the wind much more efficiently than any civilian plane, especially considering that there is no human pilot to interfere with auto-stabilization measures.

That's a bit of an assumption. There are many variables that come into play in reality, outside of simulation. One of the problems with AIs is that they only have so many things they can deal with. There are some parameters that are unexpected, and unlike our brains, which after a billion years of evolution have produced fight or flight responses, an AI has none. It sort of just acts like a really stupid animal.

Hell, there are species that have evolved "out" of these bare necessities of survival in closed environments where it wasn't needed.

Imagine the drone AI being like those animals:

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by Gorman91
If you love Iran so much, go tell their government to worry about their own country and build it up from the inside first, not trying to police the middle east and, in effect, become just like those it hates.

Umm.... Iran is building up its country from the inside, I recall it doing so ever since Mosadeq took the reigns.

Iran is trying to police the middle east? Wow, this coming from an American...

You seem surprised

reply to post by Gorman91


It's been almost a week, and they don't need to know "everything about it" to open one access door.

These doors are secured with very easy to use latches, similar to what high end race cars use. The reason they both use these clips is obvious, it's quick and secure.

I have used these on my SCCA racecar for 2 years and they are very easy to open.

www.deftracing.com...

On my last car I used Summit Racings pop out latches that are much smaller, but still easy to use.


www.summitracing.com...

reply to post by AGWskeptic


You can't really see what he uses to open it, but it does seem strange. Again, just my opinion.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

You can't really see what he uses to open it, but it does seem strange. Again, just my opinion.

With any of the quick release latches it only takes a finger, some require you turn the finger about 30 degrees as you press down, but all operate with a single finger.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


I really don't see how that's viable at high altitudes, where turbulence produces enough to shake a plane. A lone bird might hit or something. Seems careless to me. I also wonder why the need for speed is needed for a craft that is primarily on an as-needed time.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

I really don't see how that's viable at high altitudes, where turbulence produces enough to shake a plane. A lone bird might hit or something. Seems careless to me. I also wonder why the need for speed is needed for a craft that is primarily on an as-needed time.

edit on 9-12-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

Trust me, they're secure for flight.

It's not like the access doors are on the leading edge of the wing of the aircraft.

There are still plenty of things that stink about this, but the access doors aren't one of them.

reply to post by AGWskeptic


well.... in the video they were. That's the whole point. They were located at the most air resistant location.

In the video seen that isn't an access door or panel being lifted, but the left side air brake... Why it appeared to lift so easily, I can't explain that.

Gorman, I too would have expected the drone to be painted in the conventional gray scheme but this obviously isn't.

Even a small hand launched UAV has 'gyro stability control', and also 'return to home' feature when communication is lost with it. So you'd imagine if this thing had just lost communication, it would have begun heading back to base, or to some other predesignated location.

Lots of questions remain, though. Why oh why did they drape the front of it with flags!

Anyway, will continue to watch this thread.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by AGWskeptic

 

well.... in the video they were. That's the whole point. They were located at the most air resistant location.

No, they were not on the "leading edge" of the wing.

They were on top toward the front, but not on the leading edge. Up there the only force on the wing is downpressure. The air moving over the top of the wing has to travel faster that the air on the bottom, which creates lift.

In one spot you can even see the latch is open, it's a small circle that is sticking up at an angle, that's the "open button" in it's open position.

I'm more concerned about the way the left wing is attached to the fuselage. It almost looks like it came off on impact but they sloppily welded it back on.

It could explain the color discrepency. If it was damaged they repaired it to look like it was perfectly intact. This could also explain why the control surfaces on that wing move so easily.

I think there are a few videos. I just went back to rewatch it and it was different from the first one I watched yesterday.

Just found this post on an aviation website, sounds like a good theory.

It seems they had to dismantle the wings to transport the bird into the gym. They then put the thing back together on some tables and roughly taped over the cut.

Otherwise nice intelligence feat. Here is my theory on how they managed to do this: www.moonofalabama.org...

In short: They disabled the sat-link and took over the line-of-sight radio link that is used to start and land these drones

Also.

www.flightglobal.com...

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by bruwin

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

And I wonder how this news will be spun in the Western mainstream media. I bet, just like the other incidents, it'll just be ignored because the fact that the US is the aggressor here doesn't fit into the whole "Iran is a dangerous terrorist nuclear state that must be stopped" agenda.

Iran wants of whole race of people wiped of the face of the earth and America is the threat? Really? I think it's unfortunate that we are only sending drones over their air space. A squadron of B-52s would be much more appropriate.

Iran "wants a whole race of people wiped off the face of the earth"? And your solution is to wipe Iran off of the face of the earth with a "squadron of B-52s"?

WTF are you smoking?

edit on 4-12-2011 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi because: (no reason given)

Now THAT's an ATS "Hall of Fame" quote.......

reply to post by AGWskeptic


I'll let us agree to disagree, because I need more data to go on for now.

I've, for a while now, thought that the craft probably got totaled and that this is indeed a rough sketch mock up. It just looks awkward to me.