Not doing anything because even if it collapses everything will get re-dominated into new local currencies and is not an end of the world scenario.
Might not be great but it would not be apocalyptic. Chances of it actually collapsing are much over blown by the world media and there is a great
deal of scare mongering going on. Germany and France will use the opportunity to get closer fiscal and governmental union between the Euro member
states. They have most to lose and most to gain from this situation. I`m not a betting man (much) but i`d happily put my money where my mouth is.
UK/European members. How are you preparing for the collapse of the Euro?, page 3
privacy
reply posted on 4-12-2011 @ 05:28 PM by Zakka
reply to post by dmspari
That just me LOL!!
Build up our Armed forces due to risk of a German Invasion?
2011 mate not 1943.
That just me LOL!!
Build up our Armed forces due to risk of a German Invasion?
2011 mate not 1943.
reply posted on 4-12-2011 @ 06:38 PM by Panic2k11
reply to post by justwokeup
Buying gold (or silver) at this stage of the game is not a very smart move. In any case most European are not active in futures markets or even stocks, at best they have some money in an investment fund.
The best ways to prepare is to spend money in services of goods that you have been delaying (especially goods and primarily imported goods).
Stock up on food and non perishables. This will always save you money as prices will continue to go up whatever happens to the Euro.
If you are in one of the PIIGS this is probably what you should be doing, as if anyone exists the Euro it will have hyperinflation. All prices will go up between 30 to 70% (the top percentile will be true especially in Greece and Portugal). Move your money from normal deposits to another country's currency (especially to one of the BRIC's, avoid the dollar and the pound as if #F they will be next), other goods that you will probably get good prices and safeguard you moneys value would be antiques. Note also that in one situation of collapse you will not be able to move money across boarders, or even access the totality of th money you have in a bank, state functions will also be compromised, no more pensions and even normal pay may be affected (a good product to stock up is in medicine, especially if you are diabetic or have something similar).
Buying gold (or silver) at this stage of the game is not a very smart move. In any case most European are not active in futures markets or even stocks, at best they have some money in an investment fund.
The best ways to prepare is to spend money in services of goods that you have been delaying (especially goods and primarily imported goods).
Stock up on food and non perishables. This will always save you money as prices will continue to go up whatever happens to the Euro.
If you are in one of the PIIGS this is probably what you should be doing, as if anyone exists the Euro it will have hyperinflation. All prices will go up between 30 to 70% (the top percentile will be true especially in Greece and Portugal). Move your money from normal deposits to another country's currency (especially to one of the BRIC's, avoid the dollar and the pound as if #F they will be next), other goods that you will probably get good prices and safeguard you moneys value would be antiques. Note also that in one situation of collapse you will not be able to move money across boarders, or even access the totality of th money you have in a bank, state functions will also be compromised, no more pensions and even normal pay may be affected (a good product to stock up is in medicine, especially if you are diabetic or have something similar).
edit on 4-12-2011 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 4-12-2011 @ 06:47 PM by Panic2k11
reply to post by Flyer
Are you aware of your national debt and what quantitative easing means ? (Or why Germany refused the to use it to secure the euro) That if the euro-zone collapses you will have less markets to export goods.
After most countries in the euro face hyper inflation and fail to pay their debts and calls are made to pay for security of those debts what nations would you think will the markets got after next.
If a country defaults it can no longer access the lending markets.
Are you aware of your national debt and what quantitative easing means ? (Or why Germany refused the to use it to secure the euro) That if the euro-zone collapses you will have less markets to export goods.
After most countries in the euro face hyper inflation and fail to pay their debts and calls are made to pay for security of those debts what nations would you think will the markets got after next.
If a country defaults it can no longer access the lending markets.
edit on 4-12-2011 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 4-12-2011 @ 06:57 PM by woogleuk
reply to post by Panic2k11
The UK stopped the majority of its exporting years ago, that's half this countries problem.
When was the last time you seen something with "Made in England/UK/Britain" on it?
I blame the idiots who thought it would be a good idea to put a woman in charge in the late 70's
The UK stopped the majority of its exporting years ago, that's half this countries problem.
When was the last time you seen something with "Made in England/UK/Britain" on it?
I blame the idiots who thought it would be a good idea to put a woman in charge in the late 70's
reply posted on 4-12-2011 @ 07:10 PM by Panic2k11
reply to post by woogleuk
Well the Thatcher government was problematic in many aspects but it also had some benefits. I doubt that the Falklands/Malvinas War would have gone as well (Regan's and Pinochet's support would not have been the same and it was indispensable).
The housing sector for what I've heard also got lunched at that time...
I do not particularly fallow UK politics, as I see most of the role of UK after WW2, as secondary player to USA policies. I also have a great distaste for how the UK has negatively influenced the EU evolution (what I see as doing the sap work for the US).
In any case a collapse of the euro-zone would reduce even more the exports you can still make, and put the spot light finally in the nations that are at the core of the debt crisis the US and the UK (they are the original sinners on this spiral of national debt policy, most of the other had to fallow suit if for nothing else, to be able to compete).
Of course that Greece was doomed from the beginning all EU knew it, and failed to take actions.
from Greece: why did its economy fall so hard?
Well the Thatcher government was problematic in many aspects but it also had some benefits. I doubt that the Falklands/Malvinas War would have gone as well (Regan's and Pinochet's support would not have been the same and it was indispensable).
The housing sector for what I've heard also got lunched at that time...
I do not particularly fallow UK politics, as I see most of the role of UK after WW2, as secondary player to USA policies. I also have a great distaste for how the UK has negatively influenced the EU evolution (what I see as doing the sap work for the US).
In any case a collapse of the euro-zone would reduce even more the exports you can still make, and put the spot light finally in the nations that are at the core of the debt crisis the US and the UK (they are the original sinners on this spiral of national debt policy, most of the other had to fallow suit if for nothing else, to be able to compete).
Of course that Greece was doomed from the beginning all EU knew it, and failed to take actions.
By 2000, the EU finally allowed it to join, though there were suspicions at the time that Greece was operating a "limbo dance" – squeezing its figures to hit the stringent euro criteria, only for them to flip back to dangerous levels once it had entered. Indeed many believe Greece simply lied about its figures to gain entry.
from Greece: why did its economy fall so hard?
edit on 4-12-2011 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 6-12-2011 @ 06:53 AM by Freeborn
reply to post by Panic2k11
Personally I think Thatcher was probably the single worst thing that has ever happened to the UK and we are still paying the price for her policies.
I actually supported Thatcher's policy towards Argentina and The Falklands.
But as usual the actual events leading up to the conflict are conveniently glossed over for fear of casting a shadow over the Thatcher myth;
Thatcher had planned a full military review with extensive cuts envisaged including the removal of HMS Endurance from her South Atlantic duties.
Her government had downgraded the Islanders from full British citizens in The British Nationality Act 1981, subsequently restored in 1983.
She had previously intimated that she was willing to negotiate on Sovereignty.
These contributed to convincing the Argentinian Junta into believing that Britain would try to resolve the issue diplomatically and would not resort to military action so far away from mainland UK.
It was only after she had helped herself get cornered that she responded with steely resolve etc.
At the time Thatcher was lagging well behind in opinion polls and was expected to lose the General Election which was to be held in 1983.
Her PR team swung into overdrive and portrayed her as some Boudicca like warrioress and saviour.
This struck a chord with the British electorate and the rest as they say is history.
Apologies for digressing but I think it never harms to set the record straight when it comes to anything to do with Thatcher.
Exactly how and why has it done that?
Is it because the UK doesn't share the autocratic and dictatorial vision of the EU that so many of it's supporters seem to have?
Yes, it would reduce our export market, but as it's so small now the impact would be less for the UK than it is for other nations that rely on their exports.
Exactly how are the US and UK are at the 'core of the debt crisis'?
Facts and reasoned opinion please not just unsubstantiated claims and accusations.
And who was to blame for that?
Certainly not the UK or quite bizarrely the US!
Try looking at France and Germany and that bastion of Europeanism that in reality no longer exists as a nation Belgium.
Seems to me you said a lot whilst saying nothing but unsupported claims and accusations and you appear to be yet another obsessed at laying the blame for all the world's ill's on the UK and US and that just shows an ignorance and bigotry that is becoming all too familiar here on ATS.
Personally I think Thatcher was probably the single worst thing that has ever happened to the UK and we are still paying the price for her policies.
I actually supported Thatcher's policy towards Argentina and The Falklands.
But as usual the actual events leading up to the conflict are conveniently glossed over for fear of casting a shadow over the Thatcher myth;
Thatcher had planned a full military review with extensive cuts envisaged including the removal of HMS Endurance from her South Atlantic duties.
Her government had downgraded the Islanders from full British citizens in The British Nationality Act 1981, subsequently restored in 1983.
She had previously intimated that she was willing to negotiate on Sovereignty.
These contributed to convincing the Argentinian Junta into believing that Britain would try to resolve the issue diplomatically and would not resort to military action so far away from mainland UK.
It was only after she had helped herself get cornered that she responded with steely resolve etc.
At the time Thatcher was lagging well behind in opinion polls and was expected to lose the General Election which was to be held in 1983.
Her PR team swung into overdrive and portrayed her as some Boudicca like warrioress and saviour.
This struck a chord with the British electorate and the rest as they say is history.
Apologies for digressing but I think it never harms to set the record straight when it comes to anything to do with Thatcher.
I also have a great distaste for how the UK has negatively influenced the EU evolution (what I see as doing the sap work for the US).
Exactly how and why has it done that?
Is it because the UK doesn't share the autocratic and dictatorial vision of the EU that so many of it's supporters seem to have?
In any case a collapse of the euro-zone would reduce even more the exports you can still make, and put the spot light finally in the nations that are at the core of the debt crisis the US and the UK (they are the original sinners on this spiral of national debt policy, most of the other had to fallow suit if for nothing else, to be able to compete).
Yes, it would reduce our export market, but as it's so small now the impact would be less for the UK than it is for other nations that rely on their exports.
Exactly how are the US and UK are at the 'core of the debt crisis'?
Facts and reasoned opinion please not just unsubstantiated claims and accusations.
Of course that Greece was doomed from the beginning all EU knew it, and failed to take actions.
And who was to blame for that?
Certainly not the UK or quite bizarrely the US!
Try looking at France and Germany and that bastion of Europeanism that in reality no longer exists as a nation Belgium.
Seems to me you said a lot whilst saying nothing but unsupported claims and accusations and you appear to be yet another obsessed at laying the blame for all the world's ill's on the UK and US and that just shows an ignorance and bigotry that is becoming all too familiar here on ATS.
edit on
6/12/11 by Freeborn because: grammar etc
reply posted on 6-12-2011 @ 07:13 AM by TheMindWar
reply to post by woodwardjnr
Stock up on food and water, have a means to cook if electric and gas goes down, have a plan to get out of the city if you live in one, and get some protection. (and I dont mean a johnny )
Stock up on food and water, have a means to cook if electric and gas goes down, have a plan to get out of the city if you live in one, and get some protection. (and I dont mean a johnny
)reply posted on 8-12-2011 @ 01:28 AM by Panic2k11
reply to post by Freeborn
All wars start by the perception of weakness. If one party sees the conflict as unwinnable it will enter dialog for resolution or delay, while working toward advantage. In this case my understanding was that Argentina thought that it held military strategic superiority (and it had until the the US pressured France to stop arm supplies, in particular of missiles). That and the support from USA intelligence and Pinochet regime tipped the balance.
The UK does not depend only on the EU for exports but also on imports especially on parts, that allied with Instability in financial markets that could trigger the fall of the dollar would be a major problem, since most EU countries would have to default on their debt a a great part of it is held by UK banks. There would also be a huge crunch in the world economy if you we are now in a phase of austerity policies the new reality would be extremely worse.
The high rate of Euro-skepticism in the United Kingdom is no secret, they excluded themselves from the Euro, CAP (Common Agriculture Policy ?) and do their utter most to drag and delay any steps toward federalism or fixing what is wrong with the EU (bureaucracy, lack of representation). Prepare For Euro Collapse Says Bank of England- 1st Dec 2011
Great team players (NOT) imagine if all EU countries did the same scaremongering about the dollar and the pound...
Brussels Paper: “Why We Hate the British” 2005
The UK still have an anti German (thus 'anti European') bias since WWII and the UK has linked its future to the USA since then in all geopolitical stances. The EU is secondary and perceived as foreign interference.
As for Greece the USA was a major player as the UK for its entry, for historical reasons and because Greece is a member of NATO and as at the time a delaying tactic for the Eu integration of Turkey.
These contributed to convincing the Argentinian Junta into believing that Britain would try to resolve the issue diplomatically and would not resort to military action so far away from mainland UK.
All wars start by the perception of weakness. If one party sees the conflict as unwinnable it will enter dialog for resolution or delay, while working toward advantage. In this case my understanding was that Argentina thought that it held military strategic superiority (and it had until the the US pressured France to stop arm supplies, in particular of missiles). That and the support from USA intelligence and Pinochet regime tipped the balance.
Yes, it would reduce our export market, but as it's so small now the impact would be less for the UK than it is for other nations that rely on their exports.
The UK does not depend only on the EU for exports but also on imports especially on parts, that allied with Instability in financial markets that could trigger the fall of the dollar would be a major problem, since most EU countries would have to default on their debt a a great part of it is held by UK banks. There would also be a huge crunch in the world economy if you we are now in a phase of austerity policies the new reality would be extremely worse.
The high rate of Euro-skepticism in the United Kingdom is no secret, they excluded themselves from the Euro, CAP (Common Agriculture Policy ?) and do their utter most to drag and delay any steps toward federalism or fixing what is wrong with the EU (bureaucracy, lack of representation). Prepare For Euro Collapse Says Bank of England- 1st Dec 2011
Great team players (NOT) imagine if all EU countries did the same scaremongering about the dollar and the pound...
Brussels Paper: “Why We Hate the British” 2005
The UK still have an anti German (thus 'anti European') bias since WWII and the UK has linked its future to the USA since then in all geopolitical stances. The EU is secondary and perceived as foreign interference.
As for Greece the USA was a major player as the UK for its entry, for historical reasons and because Greece is a member of NATO and as at the time a delaying tactic for the Eu integration of Turkey.
edit on 8-12-2011 by Panic2k11 because: (no reason given)
reply posted on 8-12-2011 @ 01:53 AM by justwokeup
reply to post by Panic2k11
Its a personal choice for everybody.
I think that things are going to get a lot worse. I think there is going to be a massive banking collapse and it is going to hit the UK economy very very hard. This is because over decades we went from a exporter economy to an over reliance on primarily financial services economy based in london.
I think the euro will fail and I think its only the first domino. Chinas will have a correction, Japan will go Greek and the USA will eventually (sometime later) lose its reserve currency status and implode under its debt mountain.
The gold is an attempt to preserve some wealth against the threat of a devalued pound and the worldwide turmoil. Its not an investment as such. I'd rather not need it at all.
Its a personal choice for everybody.
I think that things are going to get a lot worse. I think there is going to be a massive banking collapse and it is going to hit the UK economy very very hard. This is because over decades we went from a exporter economy to an over reliance on primarily financial services economy based in london.
I think the euro will fail and I think its only the first domino. Chinas will have a correction, Japan will go Greek and the USA will eventually (sometime later) lose its reserve currency status and implode under its debt mountain.
The gold is an attempt to preserve some wealth against the threat of a devalued pound and the worldwide turmoil. Its not an investment as such. I'd rather not need it at all.
reply posted on 8-12-2011 @ 03:43 AM by Freeborn
reply to post by Panic2k11
Argentina never had any superiority and the moment the UK decided to send the Task Force and use whatever force was necessary their fate was sealed, the only question was how many casualties both sides would incur.
Obviously the intel which the UK received and the disabling of the threat posed by Exocet missiles greatly reduced the number of British casualities and eased the liberation of the Islands.
Sorry, but the US played no role whatsoever in negotiations with France.
And why would it?
That's like the US asking the UK to pressurise Mexico into doing something.
Thatcher oversaw all diplomatic discussions with France and it is widely rumoured that she took an unrecorded flight to Paris and demanded to see Mitterand in person immediately.
In the meeting Thatcher told Mitterand that unless France supplied the UK with the disabling codes for the Exocet missiles then she would authorise nuclear strikes against Argentina.
Mitterand complied and also joined with the UK and bought all worldwide supplies of Exocet's.
This has never been officially confirmed, or denied.
www.guardian.co.uk...
It is also a measure of the woman that she considered General Pinochet not just an ally but also a personal friend and confidant.
Of course the UK will be affected by any collapse of the Euro, but possibly not as badly as some might expect.
Mervyn King, Governor Of The Bank Of England, has publicly stated that British banks are relatively well positioned to withstand such a collapse.
Now I'm not one to trust his judgement or credebility 100% but he certainly knows a damn sight more about it all than I do.
And as I have been quite excellently reminded of recently by ATS member Droidinvoid, the City Of London wields much power and influence which should never be under-estimated.
That's because we don't share the same vision of a United European Super-State, and especially not one as dictatorial, autocratic, corrupt and anti-UK, as most supporters, administrators and politicans who run the EU do.
Whilst the UK has opted out of the Euro it is a fully signed up victim of the CAP.
It is generally viewed that the UK pays a disproportionate amount in compared to it's benefits, that it can be restrictive to our farmers and is downright unjust and unfair to our fishermen.
To be honest I don't know enough about the details of CAP to give a qualified or balanced opinion.
European bankers and finance ministers do their best to undermine the pound at every opportunity and force the UK into the Eurozone.
It won't happen.
And it's only reasonable that the UK tries to prepare for and minimise the effects of any collapse of the Euro, it has a responsibility to it's citizens and it would be grossly negligent if it didn't.
I found it ironic that the aricle you linked to comes from Belgium, a country that for all intents and purposes has ceased to exist as an independant nation recently, as will many similar sized EU countries in the not too distant future, (all those Scots who advocate total independance should take a good, hard look at Belgium for that is your future if you get what you wish!).
We don't hate Germans.
They are quite similar to us....apart from the fact they have little or no sense of humour.
If the truth is told we have relatively little in common with most continental Europeans other than a close proximity and have no desire to be part of this pan-European dream.
It's not the we are any better or that we dislike continental Europeans - I actually enjoy meeting and socialising with them.
But we simply ENJOY being British and take pride in it despite the efforts of the PC brigade etc.
In this case my understanding was that Argentina thought that it held military strategic superiority
Argentina never had any superiority and the moment the UK decided to send the Task Force and use whatever force was necessary their fate was sealed, the only question was how many casualties both sides would incur.
Obviously the intel which the UK received and the disabling of the threat posed by Exocet missiles greatly reduced the number of British casualities and eased the liberation of the Islands.
(and it had until the the US pressured France to stop arm supplies, in particular of missiles).
Sorry, but the US played no role whatsoever in negotiations with France.
And why would it?
That's like the US asking the UK to pressurise Mexico into doing something.
Thatcher oversaw all diplomatic discussions with France and it is widely rumoured that she took an unrecorded flight to Paris and demanded to see Mitterand in person immediately.
In the meeting Thatcher told Mitterand that unless France supplied the UK with the disabling codes for the Exocet missiles then she would authorise nuclear strikes against Argentina.
Mitterand complied and also joined with the UK and bought all worldwide supplies of Exocet's.
This has never been officially confirmed, or denied.
www.guardian.co.uk...
It is also a measure of the woman that she considered General Pinochet not just an ally but also a personal friend and confidant.
Of course the UK will be affected by any collapse of the Euro, but possibly not as badly as some might expect.
Mervyn King, Governor Of The Bank Of England, has publicly stated that British banks are relatively well positioned to withstand such a collapse.
Now I'm not one to trust his judgement or credebility 100% but he certainly knows a damn sight more about it all than I do.
And as I have been quite excellently reminded of recently by ATS member Droidinvoid, the City Of London wields much power and influence which should never be under-estimated.
The high rate of Euro-skepticism in the United Kingdom is no secret, they excluded themselves from the Euro, CAP (Common Agriculture Policy ?) and do their utter most to drag and delay any steps toward federalism or fixing what is wrong with the EU (bureaucracy, lack of representation). Prepare For Euro Collapse Says Bank of England- 1st Dec 2011
Great team players (NOT) imagine if all EU countries did the same scaremongering about the dollar and the pound...
That's because we don't share the same vision of a United European Super-State, and especially not one as dictatorial, autocratic, corrupt and anti-UK, as most supporters, administrators and politicans who run the EU do.
Whilst the UK has opted out of the Euro it is a fully signed up victim of the CAP.
It is generally viewed that the UK pays a disproportionate amount in compared to it's benefits, that it can be restrictive to our farmers and is downright unjust and unfair to our fishermen.
To be honest I don't know enough about the details of CAP to give a qualified or balanced opinion.
European bankers and finance ministers do their best to undermine the pound at every opportunity and force the UK into the Eurozone.
It won't happen.
And it's only reasonable that the UK tries to prepare for and minimise the effects of any collapse of the Euro, it has a responsibility to it's citizens and it would be grossly negligent if it didn't.
Brussels Paper: “Why We Hate the British” 2005
The UK still have an anti German (thus 'anti European') bias since WWII and the UK has linked its future to the USA since then in all geopolitical stances. The EU is secondary and perceived as foreign interference.
I found it ironic that the aricle you linked to comes from Belgium, a country that for all intents and purposes has ceased to exist as an independant nation recently, as will many similar sized EU countries in the not too distant future, (all those Scots who advocate total independance should take a good, hard look at Belgium for that is your future if you get what you wish!).
We don't hate Germans.
They are quite similar to us....apart from the fact they have little or no sense of humour.
If the truth is told we have relatively little in common with most continental Europeans other than a close proximity and have no desire to be part of this pan-European dream.
It's not the we are any better or that we dislike continental Europeans - I actually enjoy meeting and socialising with them.
But we simply ENJOY being British and take pride in it despite the efforts of the PC brigade etc.
reply posted on 8-12-2011 @ 04:19 AM by pazcat
reply to post by Freeborn
To be fair that link from the Brussels journal has very little to do with the topic at hand and doess nothing more than highlight further the racist factions that operate here.
To be totally honest I'm not sure what it has to do with anything, it was from 2005 and from a conservative blog with links to a local racist party. It should be disregarded as nonsense. I find it more ironic that the article is basically one racist complaining about another racist because they don't share the same racist views.
The governmental 'crisis' here is more to do with secularism and petty arguments. It's got little to do with the current European situation and to be honest, you don't even notice it, life goes on and such.
Sure there is probably a general distain towards the UK's participation in Europe in parlimentary circles but that's more to do with it's lack of participation, the saying 'wanting to have your cake and eat it' springs to mind. It definitely has little to do with the racist overtones in that link provided.
Mind you there is nothing wrong with the UK wanting more independance and if as a nation that's what you want it's a fair call.
To be fair that link from the Brussels journal has very little to do with the topic at hand and doess nothing more than highlight further the racist factions that operate here.
To be totally honest I'm not sure what it has to do with anything, it was from 2005 and from a conservative blog with links to a local racist party. It should be disregarded as nonsense. I find it more ironic that the article is basically one racist complaining about another racist because they don't share the same racist views.
The governmental 'crisis' here is more to do with secularism and petty arguments. It's got little to do with the current European situation and to be honest, you don't even notice it, life goes on and such.
Sure there is probably a general distain towards the UK's participation in Europe in parlimentary circles but that's more to do with it's lack of participation, the saying 'wanting to have your cake and eat it' springs to mind. It definitely has little to do with the racist overtones in that link provided.
Mind you there is nothing wrong with the UK wanting more independance and if as a nation that's what you want it's a fair call.
edit on
8-12-2011 by pazcat because: (no reason given)
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