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Superman was a Socialist

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posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:30 AM
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That S inside the vector on the Superman logo stands for socialism
I found a cool interview today with 'graphic novelist' Grant Morrison.The interview is about his book -"Supergods:Our World in the Age of the Superhero". He is asked about the considerations required when writing a character with existing mythology.He uses Superman as an example and explains that in the beginning Superman was very much a socialist superhero. A depression-era socialist that was the champion of ordinary Americans.
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Text At the beginning, Superman was very much a socialist superhero. He fought for the unemployed, the oppressed, he beat up wife-beaters. It's about a man driven by a burning sense of injustice -- there are no monsters or robots, he fights against corrupt council officials! He was conceived as a depression-era superhero, who dealt with the problems of ordinary people


He goes on to explain how he thinks Superman would champion the oppressed today.
--

Text I think he's a much more global, connected character. Truth, justice and the American way isn't relevant any more. We've all seen the pictures of the earth from Apollo 8. The Superman I would write would be a much more international figure.


So Grant Morrisons Superman is somewhat of a globalist superhero.He fought against corruption for ordinary people in the depression-era,I am sure he would again.Could we assume he would be anti-establishment and against the US government of today?

Captain America is another superhero with interesting political ideology.In the beginning he was bashing nazis, Hitler,ubermensch and commies.He was very "America [SNIP] yeah!" but when they brought him back in the 60s he was used as an anachronism having been frozen in the Antartic for 20 years. His blind trust in government during the 40s and 50s provided a contrast to the 60s superheros.Max Allan Collins says that contrast allowed superheros to "lose a certain innocence" .By 1969 Captain America was sounding alot different- “And, in a world rife with injustice, greed, and endless war. Who’s to say the rebels are wrong?”-Captain America.

By the 80s he was alot less "America [SNIP] yeah!" Captain America had become Rambo like in that he was a symbol of American ideals rather than that of its government. “I’m loyal to nothing, General… Except the Dream” -Captain America 1986

Post 9/11 Captain America is a very different figure to the character of the 40s. He has gone from blindly following his government to being decidedly anti-establishment.Here is some post 9/11 words of wisdom from Captain America--

“I remember a time when it was easy to feel pride in this ‘country’. When ‘this’ country celebrated the victories of its loyal soldiers. When ‘this’ country was my country right or wrong. And most of the time it was right. But times have changed, haven’t they? The battles are less clear, the wars less noble, the cause less right, even in the shadow of 9/11. Dark men with a ‘cause’ come at us like thieves in the night. Men who consider their ‘cause’ noble. Men who consider their cause ‘holy’. Men whose ideals carry power, and weight, and substance and make us seem wrong, but whose actions, reprehensible and vile, make murderers look right. This government can be wrong. Our politics can be flawed. We are, after all, a complex system run by human beings.” -Captain America

It seems clear that the superhero of today's main concern would be government corruption. It is the issue of our time.Would Captain America and Superman stand with Riot Police? Or would they stand with the people protesting government corruption?
edit on 4-12-2011 by theovermensch because: typo
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edit on 4-12-2011 by theovermensch because: typo




posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:52 AM
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I think Captain America and Superman would be OWSers for sure.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:04 AM
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There are some threads that just make me sad to see..... The headline alone gave me a heavy heart. Reading the logic behind it just makes me feel sad. Nothing more or less... It's come to this. Superman a socialist? Mext we'll be saying Walt Disney really meant for Mickey to be a marxist. Fine..I get it.. We have a whole generation of people who see Che Guevara as a cultural hero. Ugh..thats enough to stomach and remain fairly quiet about. Please don't try and rewrite the history of cultural American icons though. Superman *WAS NOT* a Socialist. Thank you, very much.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:14 AM
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Ever hear of Superman, Red Son?


Superman: Red Son is a three-issue prestige format comic book mini-series published b
y DC Comics that was released under their Elseworlds imprint in April 2003. Author Mark Millar created the comic with the premise "what if Superman had been raised in the Soviet Union?" It received critical acclaim and was nominated for the 2004 Eisner Award for best limited series.

The story mixes alternate versions of DC super-heroes with alternate-reality versions of real political figures such as Joseph Stalin and John F. Kennedy. The series spans approximately 1953-2001, save for a futuristic epilogue.

In Red Son, Superman's rocket ship lands on a Ukrainian collective farm rather than in Kansas, an implied reason being a small time difference (a handful of hours) from the original timeline, meaning Earth's rotation placed the Ukraine in the ship's path instead of Kansas. Instead of fighting for "...truth, justice, and the American Way", Superman is described in Soviet radio broadcasts "...as the Champion of the common worker who fights a never-ending battle for Stalin, socialism, and the international expansion of the Warsaw Pact." His "secret identity" (i.e. the name his adoptive parents gave him) is a state secret.

(More at wikipedia link above)







...and interestingly enough, in this universe, Batman is a kind of anarchist-dissident escapee from the Soviet Gulags




posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:15 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I hate when I see some try-hard wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt. Fidel Castro tshirts should be more popular.

Im not sure about Mickey Mouse,Disney are pretty shady,I will have to look into it. I doubt it though,Walt would have accussed him of being a commie


And I am not rewritting history.Grant Morrison says Superman was a socialist.Its his opinion.I tend to agree.

# At least the Che t-shirt hipsters are on the right track.
edit on 4-12-2011 by theovermensch because: too hard on hipsters



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:16 AM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 




No I hadnt.
That is awesome.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:27 AM
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Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I hate when I see some try-hard wearing a Che-Guevara t-shirt. Fidel Castro tshirts should be more popular.

Im not sure about Mickey Mouse,Disney are pretty shady,I will have to look into it. I doubt it though,Walt would have accussed him of being a commie


And I am not rewritting history.Grant Morrison says Superman was a socialist.Its his opinion.I tend to agree.

That rumbling people hear in the sky has nothing to do with Earthquakes, HAARP or UFO's. It's the echo of our Founding Fathers rolling in their graves. At this rate, they might just emerge into daylight like pissed off Tasmanian devils on of these days. This is a day I just can't take any more for awhile. I'm going to bed to have happy dreams...where Clark Kent was a good *AMERICAN* boy, not a Soviet Sleeper agent and people don't feed kittens to snakes. 'Night.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


sweet dreams.

Your Founding Fathers were commies.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 4-12-2011 by theovermensch because: typo




Text People like to defend the status-quo against any challenge by saying we must defend the current system because it is what the Founding Fathers fought for. Surely they would be rolling in their graves if they could see what has become of The United States.


And I agree.They are rolling in their graves.
edit on 4-12-2011 by theovermensch because: typo


#That was a pretty complex burn
edit on 4-12-2011 by theovermensch because: narcissism (:



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


It's kinda funny that you seem to be against everything. What are you "for"?

If I read your posts correctly, you are "for" Wall Street greed, corrupt politicians, the Bush presidency, the illegal war in Afghanistan, letting people die with no medical care, letting people starve to death while you throw food away, letting billion dollar companies get away without paying their fair share of taxes, etc.

Hmm, sounds like you are a capitalist.

Personally, I would rather identify with people who care about their fellow man. But, I do understand that weak-minded people such as yourself find it virtually impossible to think beyond your indoctrination. If anybody doubts the power of brainwashing, all they need to do is read a few of your posts.

I had the same indoctrination. 10 years ago our posts would have read like they came from the same person. Fortunately, my eyes were opened and I now see the pure evil that is capitalism. Profit at the expense of everything else? Why? When you can make a little less profit and help people? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then again, one must care about his fellowman before he can adopt an attitude of doing something to help them.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by DragonTattooz
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


It's kinda funny that you seem to be against everything. What are you "for"?

If I read your posts correctly, you are "for" Wall Street greed, corrupt politicians, the Bush presidency, the illegal war in Afghanistan, letting people die with no medical care, letting people starve to death while you throw food away, letting billion dollar companies get away without paying their fair share of taxes, etc.

Hmm, sounds like you are a capitalist.

Personally, I would rather identify with people who care about their fellow man. But, I do understand that weak-minded people such as yourself find it virtually impossible to think beyond your indoctrination. If anybody doubts the power of brainwashing, all they need to do is read a few of your posts.

I had the same indoctrination. 10 years ago our posts would have read like they came from the same person. Fortunately, my eyes were opened and I now see the pure evil that is capitalism. Profit at the expense of everything else? Why? When you can make a little less profit and help people? Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then again, one must care about his fellowman before he can adopt an attitude of doing something to help them.

You say Capitalist as if that is a dirty word. I suppose to some in this generation, it has become one. No, I'm not against everything... I do try and strike a balance. actually several of my first threads were started on positive topics and attempting to bring good, positive news to the halls of ATS. That went over about as well as a fart in Church, as so I learned... However, against everything? Not at all.

I'll tell you what I am against though, since this thread is a perfect venue for this airing of opinion. I *AM* against Marxism, Socialism and/or Communism. 3 world views with a distinction if not a major difference. I am 100% AGAINST the constant and endless attempts these days to vilify anything and everything American and basically put a boot to anything of American culture much older than the teens or 20 somethings demanding it be stomped into submission...and people like me right along with it, if necessary.

What I am against is this constant need I am being told at every turn I must learn to experience and even embrace for seeing MY own nation as the bad guy in the world to the exclusion of all others. I refuse to look at the Eastern Bloc/Com-Bloc (as we used to call them) nations as being pure as the driven snow while I'm supposed to see the United States Government as much as a Great Satan as the most radical Imam in Iran has ever produced.

So..... In summary. I am not against everything. FAR from it. I even make a point of dropping congrad posts on threads I think someone is being dog piled on for no good reason..or is making a good point others seem to just dump all over for the fun of it. I just won't play verbal games about what I *AM* against and that tends to relly piss some people off. So be it.... Life is hard and getting harder. If THIS outlook of mine is bad, wait until reality joins it. It's coming up behind me and not that far away.

One final line here to remove any and all doubt forever about how I feel.

I'm an American. I am *PROUD* to be an American and I will die someday, of old age we all hope, as a PROUD AMERICAN. I'd give everything for my nation, if not for the Government currently running it. Even there though, I will say the American system is the worst.....EXCEPT FOR EVERYTHING ELSE. so.. There, as you can see I am *FOR* something
I AM for America and being American....even if my nation has work to do in meeting the image we all have of the place it ought to get back to being.
edit on 4-12-2011 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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Textyou are "for" Wall Street greed, corrupt politicians, the Bush presidency, the illegal war in Afghanistan, letting people die with no medical care, letting people starve to death while you throw food away, letting billion dollar companies get away without paying their fair share of taxes, etc. Hmm, sounds like you are a capitalist.
reply to post by DragonTattooz
 


Ha!



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by theovermensch
 


Excellent OP. You really went out of your way to look into this. Unfortunately I know what is going to happen. The ATS "redstate" population is going to dismiss your entire OP and attack you based solely on the title of the thread. It is going to be funny to watch them bash you, defend Captain America and Superman, all while contradicting the actual facts presented in your OP about those characters histories.

Good luck! It was an interesting read that had nothing to argue about but argue they will.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
There are some threads that just make me sad to see..... The headline alone gave me a heavy heart. Reading the logic behind it just makes me feel sad. Nothing more or less... It's come to this. Superman a socialist? Mext we'll be saying Walt Disney really meant for Mickey to be a marxist. Fine..I get it.. We have a whole generation of people who see Che Guevara as a cultural hero. Ugh..thats enough to stomach and remain fairly quiet about. Please don't try and rewrite the history of cultural American icons though. Superman *WAS NOT* a Socialist. Thank you, very much.


This is what you are going to get. People that are upset because superman is not a socialist TO THEM. These people often display a great deal of ignorance about socialism and go out of their way to ignore the reality presented to them.

This post for example above. It makes him sad but he cannot articulate why. From post history, I am guessing it is the lack of understanding of the word socialism and this need to defend against that evil word at any cost.
Superman was a socialist by the standards of the people that worked on superman. You are just the reader. How much it upsets you does not change reality.
Get a dictionary.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 





Text I'm an American. I am *PROUD* to be an American and I will die someday, of old age we all hope, as a PROUD AMERICAN. I'd give everything for my nation, if not for the Government currently running it.


By the 80s he was alot less "America [SNIP] yeah!" Captain America had become Rambo like in that he was a symbol of American ideals rather than that of its government. “I’m loyal to nothing, General… Except the Dream” -Captain America 1986

You sound alot like Captain America in 1986. I think you are starting to come around.
You will be a socialist before you know it just like your heros Superman and Captain America.

Did I mention Luke Skywalker was a socialist too? And the Jedi were socialist?
www.abovetopsecret.com... --Luke Skywalker was a Socialist.,



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Originally posted by theovermensch
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I hate when I see some try-hard wearing a Che-Guevara t-shirt. Fidel Castro tshirts should be more popular.

Im not sure about Mickey Mouse,Disney are pretty shady,I will have to look into it. I doubt it though,Walt would have accussed him of being a commie


And I am not rewritting history.Grant Morrison says Superman was a socialist.Its his opinion.I tend to agree.

That rumbling people hear in the sky has nothing to do with Earthquakes, HAARP or UFO's. It's the echo of our Founding Fathers rolling in their graves. At this rate, they might just emerge into daylight like pissed off Tasmanian devils on of these days. This is a day I just can't take any more for awhile. I'm going to bed to have happy dreams...where Clark Kent was a good *AMERICAN* boy, not a Soviet Sleeper agent and people don't feed kittens to snakes. 'Night.


Our founding fathers buillt a great deal of socialism into the framework of this country. You just do not understand words and what they mean very well.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by Algernonsmouse
 




Thanks for having a read hey.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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Yes Superman was a socialist. Socialists dream of a superhero that has unlimited funds that will pay for their lunch, do their work for them, save the world for them. But once they leave the state of infancy they realize Superman does not exist unless they find him within themselves...at which point they become Libertarians.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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Superman renounces U.S. citizenship– latest victim of Globalist Propaganda

In the 900th issue of Action Comics coming out, featuring Superman, the decades long fictional icon renounces his U.S. citizenship and declares himself a “citizen of the universe”.

deadlinelive.info...


maybe things are even worse then you think OP s and f though



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


there is a version of socialism where people SHARE in work and proceeds and still have a balance of inividual choice...

like a home shopping club..volume discounts mutual defence and holding together....brother and sisterhood



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by FailedProphet
 

well drawn
thanks for that









 
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