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Egypt goes Islamic

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posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:31 PM
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Originally posted by AllUrChips

Originally posted by Phantom28804
reply to post by AllUrChips
 


Frankly if Israel is dumb enough to attack Iran after being surrounded by groups like the brotherhood my sympathy would fall on no one but the innocent people of Israel. For their government to take such action under those circumstances would be comparable to suicide literally.

Well if some one threatened to wipe your race off the map, you would hate those people would you not?


If I was dumb enough to believe a hoax based on a bad translation, yeah, probably.
edit on 12-3-2011 by rogerstigers because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by AllUrChips
 


You know that is continually used as the basis for every argument. You are aware that there is a large debate over what the Iranian president actually said on that? He claims he did not mean Israel as much as the Israeli government. I am not saying he is being honest, but frankly the Israeli government is not known for there peaceful ways.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by rogerstigers
 


First, there is no such thing as Christian religious law. And in the case of Jewish religious law, it is only binding on Jews who subscribe to religious law. Atheist Jews don't acknowledge it, and they are not affected by it. Even Orthodox Jews who do subscribe to it at most face the grueling corporeal punishment of being "Ostracized" and "excommunicated", and not getting their hands cut off, or being stoned to death, or hanged, for minor offences.

There is no parallel between religious law practiced in PRIVATE, and religious law institutionalized and enforced by the state.

Why don't you read up on what that means for minority religions, like Christianity and Judaism. Read the book "legacy of Jihad" or "Dhimmitude" by Bat Ye'or.




Judge the government on its actions not by personal bias about what they might do....


I oppose Islamic law BECAUSE of its injustice towards non-Muslim minorities, or "Dhimmis"....

If a Muslim would like to follow Sharia, feel free to do it. But there's no reason for me to support their religious rights when their religious rights deprives others of theirs.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


I have no say or opinion in what you choose to believe, honestly. And no, I am no supporter of Sharia law either. I think it is primative and out of touch with modern life.

As for "no Christian law", if there is no such thing, why are so many modern arguments in western politics based on what the bible supposedly says?



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by rogerstigers
reply to post by Trustme333
 


Well, one can certainly expect that the border to gaza will never be closed again.. *shrug*



It would never have been closed by a trully Egyptian Government that were acting on behoaf of their people..
The people did NOT want to see Palestine as a prison camp but the "puppet regime" did what Israel wanted..



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:37 PM
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I wonder how nervous Isreal is getting....

.. I wonder how much influence Iran has with the Muslim Brotherhood.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I wonder how nervous Isreal is getting....

.. I wonder how much influence Iran has with the Muslim Brotherhood.


I wonder if some "crazies" in Israel haven't planned this all along and are now rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of a prophecy fulfilled.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by Phantom28804
 

I do and have seen the speech for myself. Dig it up and see for yourself. Besisdes, even if he did not, they are surrounded by people chanting for their unholy demise. I know if all my neighbors were chanting death to me and threatining my family, I would not wait for them to attack me, but maybe thats just me. Besides, im not agreeing with the jews, I think they were dirty in the first place for taking land from the palestiniens. Doesnt mean that they should be wiped out.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
reply to post by rogerstigers
 


First, there is no such thing as Christian religious law. And in the case of Jewish religious law, it is only binding on Jews who subscribe to religious law. Atheist Jews don't acknowledge it, and they are not affected by it. Even Orthodox Jews who do subscribe to it at most face the grueling corporeal punishment of being "Ostracized" and "excommunicated", and not getting their hands cut off, or being stoned to death, or hanged, for minor offences.

There is no parallel between religious law practiced in PRIVATE, and religious law institutionalized and enforced by the state.

Why don't you read up on what that means for minority religions, like Christianity and Judaism. Read the book "legacy of Jihad" or "Dhimmitude" by Bat Ye'or.




Judge the government on its actions not by personal bias about what they might do....


I oppose Islamic law BECAUSE of its injustice towards non-Muslim minorities, or "Dhimmis"....

If a Muslim would like to follow Sharia, feel free to do it. But there's no reason for me to support their religious rights when their religious rights deprives others of theirs.



Well, the Qur'an actually negates the claim you, or anybody else -including some muslims- about "religious minorities".


Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. 2:62


I don't know how many times I can repeat that salafi's and "fundamentalists" don't follow the Qur'an as it should be followed, and don't interpret it as it should be interpreted. Now those of us who are muslim but don't practice that specific tradition are left to be grouped up with "extremists" and not even given a mic to speak because we're accused of lying and all this other bull...

Read the Qur'an to know how muslims SHOULD react to and deal with Jews and Christians.

One thing people don't seem to get, is that when the Qur'an mentions non believers, it's only talking about athiests (because they don't believe in God) and the early arabian idolators (because they didn't REALLY believe in a creator God).... All this muslims vs. jews vs. christians is a conspiracy of epic proportions that worked perfectly.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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You know whats nice about a "democracy"? the fact that the people choose their leaders so if Egypt wanted a non-Islamic government they would have voted differently nice work Egypt this is what the majority wanted and you got it. Do not let us in the west tell you you've made a mistake please ignore our ethnocentric attitudes and get you country in order.

That being said Ladies of Egypt i think its best if you leave before its to late once the tribunal is established you will and i repeat will become property



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by AllUrChips
reply to post by Phantom28804
 

I do and have seen the speech for myself. Dig it up and see for yourself. Besisdes, even if he did not, they are surrounded by people chanting for their unholy demise. I know if all my neighbors were chanting death to me and threatining my family, I would not wait for them to attack me, but maybe thats just me. Besides, im not agreeing with the jews, I think they were dirty in the first place for taking land from the palestiniens. Doesnt mean that they should be wiped out.



So according to you, occupations should be dealt with as friendly uninvited guests? with bulldozers? and assault rifles?

niiiice...



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by AllUrChips
 


I agree I don't think they should be wiped out and I never said they should. In fact if you look back to earlier in the thread I said just that.

The biggest problems I see in the world is that religion runs decisions. This is just a recipe for disaster in the first place. Whether some Americans like to admit it or not the separation of Church and State was not a mistake. It was completely based on the fact that England was run by the Church and when people immigrated to America they didn't want to be governed by the Church. Our fore fathers saw this problem before it happened and tried to create a safety net, to bad they are probably turning in the graves at the way America turned out.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:50 PM
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reply to post by My.mind.is.mine
 


It doesn't matter what the Quran says. Truly, the Quran also ascribes the holy land to the Jews. If Muslims followed the Quran, they would be moving aside and letting the Jews live in Israel.

Forget about what the Quran says. Fact is, Jews have been massacred in Islamic lands. The Islamic government in Morocco were the ones to invent the "badge" worn by Jews to distinguish them from Muslims - later on adopted by the Christians in France.

Please, for the love of God, and truth, educate yourself. Read the books I'm recommending before commenting. The Legacy of Jihad, and Dhimmitude. Your ideas of Islamic 'tolerance' for other religions will be smashed to pieces. It simply isn't true.


And what about Sura 9:5??? How is that to be interpreted?



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:56 PM
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I am not big on repeating myself so I am done unless something else is said that is debatable. Thanks for the debate and the chatter. S&F for the OP for giving me something to go back and forth on for awhile, and thanks for the counter debate to all the participants. Whether I agree or disagree with you doesn't reflect my appreciation for your input or your views


The ideal situation would be for all parties involved to talk things out and avoid war. This world has seen enough war, and while I am not naive enough to think there won't be anymore. There is no harm in trying peace for awhile. The Israeli government needs a lesson in talking to they neighbors instead of blasting them, and the Islamic extremists groups need a lesson in the same thing.

I know people have said they aren't the same before, but while they were not as violent by far. The Muslim extremists are really not all that different from groups like the KKK. They are the worst representation of the Muslim faith and people would do good to stop judging an entire religion based on the few you hear about in the media.

Just my 2 cents, but really look at your neighbor and ask yourself. Does it really matter what religion he is. He helped me that time with my flat or whatever.. He was there when I needed to get out of the rain when I locked myself out. he called the cops that time someone broke in.

I know this is not how the world operates, but is it really all that different? We spend to much time focusing on the bad and not the good. We spend to much time judging people by their race, religion, or country of origin. And not enough time just judging them as a another human being. I am not a hippy or all about some peace and love BS. I am just saying lol. think about it. Take a step outside of the box the media, religions, and governments have painted for you and look at the world from an independent perspective.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


You'll find a good explanation here. Context is key in scripture.

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9:5-6 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

Having presented the verse in context, we can analyze it properly. Dr. Maher Hathout gives an explanation on the historical context of the verse:

This verse was revealed towards the end of the revelation period and relates to a limited context. Hostilities were frozen for a three-month period during which the Arabs pledged not to wage war. Prophet Muhammad was inspired to use this period to encourage the combatants to join the Muslim ranks or, if they chose, to leave the area that was under Muslims rule; however, if they were to resume hostilities, then the Muslims would fight back until victorious. One is inspired to note that even in this context of war, the verse concludes by emphasizing the divine attributes of mercy and forgiveness. To minimize hostilities, the Qur’an ordered Muslims to grant asylum to anyone, even an enemy, who sought refuge. Asylum would be granted according to the customs of chivalry; the person would be told the message of the Qur’an but not coerced into accepting that message. Thereafter, he or she would be escorted to safety regardless of his or her religion. (9:6). (Hathout, Jihad vs. Terrorism; US Multimedia Vera International, 2002, pp.52-53, emphasis added)



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 10:00 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


The couple of books you've read, versus my 20 years as a muslim.......

#FAILURE

p.s. Palestine isn't 100% muslim, and it wasn't established based upon "we're muslim, let's live here".. It's a country like all others. I'm not coming from a scriptural standpoint but I can take you there too.

Jews are NOT supposed to have an established state of Israel until the emergence of the messiah. That's straight from Jewish scripture. Hence the reason a lot of Jews oppose Israel.
edit on 3-12-2011 by My.mind.is.mine because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Well, what was suspected to happen has happened.

Yah, they beein free and all for the first time in decades. God forbid they should throw off their bonds and rise to independence. If that represents a threat to the west or any one who supports them, well then sorry about that. Maybe we should fear a reprisal for all those years of oppression by puppet of the west Mubarak and the US equipped Egyptian Army. The whole Middle East is watching to see what happens next. If the oppression re ramps up as a response you can bet it will ignite a revolution followed in kind by the other repressed peoples of the Middle East. Nothing like a man who is right and just keeps coming. Cry Freedom!



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 





9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.


It's pretty simple to understand. As long as they are fighting you then you are supposed to kill them. But if they lay down their arms then you stop fighting and let them go.

Besides Israel should be happy the Brotherhood won most of the votes because the Brotherhood hasn't been involved in any violence in quite a while. They actually lean towards moderation and democracy. Too bad the same can't be said for the bunch running Israel.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by dontreally
 





9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.


It's pretty simple to understand. As long as they are fighting you then you are supposed to kill them. But if they lay down their arms then you stop fighting and let them go.

Besides Israel should be happy the Brotherhood won most of the votes because the Brotherhood hasn't been involved in any violence in quite a while. They actually lean towards moderation and democracy. Too bad the same can't be said for the bunch running Israel.


I tried to find a good source for this because I didn't want something slanted, but the best I could find is this.

www.liveleak.com...

I have to say if that is true then they aren't being quite so peaceful.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Phantom28804

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by dontreally
 





9:5 When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful.


It's pretty simple to understand. As long as they are fighting you then you are supposed to kill them. But if they lay down their arms then you stop fighting and let them go.

Besides Israel should be happy the Brotherhood won most of the votes because the Brotherhood hasn't been involved in any violence in quite a while. They actually lean towards moderation and democracy. Too bad the same can't be said for the bunch running Israel.


I tried to find a good source for this because I didn't want something slanted, but the best I could find is this.

www.liveleak.com...

I have to say if that is true then they aren't being quite so peaceful.


People seem to have such a hard time understanding this words are just that words they can't hurt you. Even the link you posted shows no violence just speeches.



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