A feasibilty study on the aspects of an ATS movement.

OWS has made it worldwide.

I was driving downtown in the biggest city I live next to, population 54,000, and lo and behold, there were a group of 10-12 people holding signs on a street corner next to the public square, one of which was a sign that said, WE ARE THE 99%, having an orange background and bold black letters. I honked three times as I drove by.

Most people don't care about the OWS movement. It's unorganized they say, a bunch of kids they say. They deny that the theme is reaching even small towns like the one I passed through. I was impressed, as it was dark, drizzling rain, and frigid out.

There are those of us that do care. Not so as much in the OWS movement, but that we are living in a day and age of blatantly corrupt politicians, a Congress that serves it's own needs, and redress of the people's complaints lost in the functioning of the current system.

Slayer69 has made THIS ENTRY in the latest ATS writing contest, and he raises several valid and humorous points. Our political system does need an enema. It struck a chord with me, and I was compelled to make this thread.

So this is a feasibility study. Nothing more, nothing less.

From my meanderings on ATS, I've noticed the possibility of having experts in many different fields as part of our community. I pondered for a bit that ATS draws in the best minds on the internet, as I found ATS from a google search I was doing on some long forgotten topic. I read for a bit, and immediately joined. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I do know there are some very sharp tools on ATS, experts in categories ranging from seismic activity to photo analysis to economic activity. It's my belief that we have a group of individuals contributing to a gestalt intelligence.

What would the movement need? A group of leaders. Not just one person, but a council. Of sorts, or something like that.

Here's where I default to your ideas, and see what the gestalt has to say. Slayer69 presented the idea, and I've given you a few ideas to toss around.

How would ATS organize? Would the owners ATS be offended, is there legal implications? Members are worldwide, so we need to be careful what we say.

What are YOUR thoughts?

Leaders... no more. Leaders are harbingers of corruption and evil deeds, leading to the gradual decay of all standards of life and eventually to the painful death of their flock / pack / shoal / swarm / group / tribe / business...
We are supposed to have reached beyond that. It has been too much already.
No. Leaders, no more.

reply to post by Druid42


Well I recently found out first hand that you cannot actually initiate a change on ATS as it is against the TOS. I recently began a petition on the new WeThePeople page at the Whitehouse.gov, and since I am not a facebooker/twitterer/social networker this is my social network and I went here to let people know about it, and quickly found out that my thread had been deleted and it was because it was against the TOS for me to do what I was doing. So unfortunately my attempt to make a change will probably never go since I have to have 150 signatures just for the petition to be public. Which is unfortunate. I made the comment to the moderator that it was unfortunate that we at ATS can gripe and moan about changing things, but we are unable to actually initiate a change.

Originally posted by trisvonbis
Leaders... no more. Leaders are harbingers of corruption and evil deeds, leading to the gradual decay of all standards of life and eventually to the painful death of their flock / pack / shoal / swarm / group / tribe / business...
We are supposed to have reached beyond that. It has been too much already.
No. Leaders, no more.

While the concept of no leadership sounds appealing the reality is there is no such thing. Even the OWS movement has leaders. Even if they are leaders in the shadows. It is virtually impossible for humans to survive without leadership. Even back in the Cavemen era you had the Alpha males so to speak, animal kingdom has Alpha males. There is not a living sentient being that does not follow. Sorry but that is the truth of it and it may be unfortunate but it is non-the-less a fact of existence.

Yes, the owners of ATS would be offended. I believe this is clearly against T&C. Go read them, then come back and show how this sort of thing would be allowed. In fact, i wouldn't be all that surprised if the thread gets 404'd.

Secondly, this just shows how out to lunch the OWS movement is. they claim to represent the 99%. They do not. They don't even come close. Technically, I'm part of the 99% the way they define it, but there is no way these low-lifes represent me. They are the same sixties leftover leftist hippies plus a few young people who never have had jobs to go to, so they can afford to sit out there and defecate in some park, rape women in tents, and beat up some street vendor because he ran out of hot dogs to give away. pretending they are the vanguard of the revolution, plus some organized union thugs all out to change things so they get more free stuff.

So....

No, there will be no "movement" coming put of ATS and
No, a bunch of leftists do not represent the 99%.

You wanna go carry some signs on public property, knock yourself out, but try to surprise us: Clean up after yourself.

No can do

15e.) Recruitment/Solicitation:

i) You will not use your membership in the Websites for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Phage


Ah hah, but I have CLEARLY stated in my OP that this is a feasibility study. No actual recruitment going on. People's opinions is all.

I'd also like to add to my ATS list of talents, all the wannabe hackers out there. We have a very broad base of many tech savvy people.

Perhaps the title should have read:

"A feasibility study on the aspects of a hypothetical ATS movement."

Would that get your panties out of a bunch?

Is everyone really afraid of change, to point that wanting to talk about possibilities scares you?

C'mon, ATS. Really?

I'm not soliciting anything. I'm asking what your ideas are. We are all upset at the system, so why can't we talk about solutions?

Do I have to tell you that you can hide behind a hypothetical situation? Will that make you safe?

Perhaps you should report this thread.

Never mind, I will.

reply to post by Druid42

I did read the OP. Waffling about a study aside (which is probably why your thread still exists).

How would ATS organize? Would the owners ATS be offended, is there legal implications? Members are worldwide, so we need to be careful what we say.

The answer is, "no can do".
So what's the point of your study if not to take it somewhere. I was just pointing out that (feasibility study or not) your suggestion could easily be taken as a violation of the T&C.

reply to post by Druid42


I'm not afraid to discuss it.. I mean frankly if I really thought my petition would change something I could have pursued it more. The bottom line is that I know and I am sure many others do as well that the We The People page is nothing more then appeasement. I mean as long as we feel that our words can make a difference we feel a little better. As for my petition well the point is important but I do not feel it will really change anything if it happens it's going to happen one way or the other. At least I can rest easy knowing that I made my feelings known. Just because the president doesn't read it doesn't mean that someone in the White House doesn't see it. I am more then sure they review everything. I feel at least I made my voice and opinion known and I am sure that I am bit of a thorn in my local representatives side as I always write him with my thoughts and opinions. I take the time to let the government that serves me know what I am thinking and how I view there decisions. It's something that Americans have forgotten how to do and frankly how the government reached the position they are in today.

We are only there "flock" as some would say because we let them herd us in the direction they want. Sure there are those that put up resistance and gripe and moan about it, but how much resistance do we really put up? I do not deny that I am not a supporter of the OWS movement. I think they are a lost cause. Not because they aren't doing something, but because they aren't doing it right. They are not petitioning there government they are petitioning big business which frankly gives a flip about what they say. The White House and Congress love OWS because they don't have to listen to them as they are not speaking to Obama or the Congress. It's easy to ignore something when it's not directed at you. Kind of like the homeless guys you pass on a day to day basis and just because they don't ask you for a handout you don't feel the need to be bothered. You become dissected from there situation because you are not being confronted with it, but the minute they ask you, you are suddenly overwhelmed with a bit of guilt as you try and move on because you don't want to look the truth in the face. Of course there are those that give them money or help them out, but I don't deny that I have ignored my share, and I would call anyone who says they haven't a liar as I don't believe it. There is no such thing as a perfect person. Perfection is a lie, and that is something Americans and humans have been crafted to be ignorant too. We have been molded to feel that we are superior to others regardless of your nationality. Middle Easterners have been brought to believe they are superior in ways to the Western World, China, Russia, America, England. It doesn't matter where you hail from. You have been molded to believe your country and way of life is the best.

Back on track. If I really wanted to get a message across that I thought was that important that you all needed to know. I would spam the hell out of your inbox's, post forum after forum. Regardless how fast they delete them it would still reach a few people and each one a few more. There are always ways around the rules if you want to do that.

I have no reason to do that nor am I encouraging it, but this is hypothetical as you said and that is your answer.

reply to post by Phage


I've reported my own thread. It's under review. I'll let the staff decide.

I do realize an actual ATS movement is against T&C. Wow. The very people that complain, and point out all the injustices, are bound by the T&C of the very website they belong to. You can preach, but you cannot act. Talk about being hog-tied.

That's why I prefer to keep it hypothetical. Things we could do, if we were allowed. That's the basis of the OP, and I see now that an ATS based movement is impossible. It's a logical conundrum. The T&C binds us in our fetters.

It's not feasible.

However, I would like to think this thread retains a glimmer of hope in allowing a hypothetical means by which we can address our grievances, if only amongst ourselves. Can we still talk about our dislike against the system, and as ATS members, what we would or could do?

reply to post by Druid42

Discussion creates awareness...hopefully. That's the whole point.

reply to post by Phage


That is 100% true discussion does create awareness. The problem is that awareness and actually taking an action to fix the problem you are now aware of are two entirely different aspects.

reply to post by Phantom28804

Indeed.
But the T&C of this website forbid going beyond discussion...on this website.

reply to post by Phage


Yea I know....... I should have read them a bit more closely

I dont like having my threads deleted makes me look bad

reply to post by Phage


I do have to ask this one hypothetical though and it is not entirely serious, but...

If you were looking through your telescope and you saw a giant asteroid heading for Earth and you came on here to warn people and implore them to run. Then the TPTB said there was nothing up there and they negated your findings. Still you implored people to run on ATS would that be considered recruitment?

reply to post by Phage


As brilliant as your mind is, I feel sorry at times for your inability to express emotion. I would like to think that you want to say something, but are bound by a logic that disallows your feelings to be expressed. I don't know for sure.

You would be a good "hypothetical" member of an "imagined" movement. I have always valued your input into any thread I've read in which you have contributed.

Take it at face value.

reply to post by Phantom28804


Why would a deleted thread make you look bad? Aside of a wall of text, or a one liner, or something that blatantly violates the T&C, any heartfelt contribution posted in the correct forum shouldn't be deleted. Why even worry if a thread you author gets nixed? You posted, you were honest and sincere, and if it gets deleted, at least you tried. You learn from mistakes you make, and if you don't try, you'll never make mistakes, and you'll never learn.

See, in an essence, this is what this is all about. How feasible is organization outside of the OWS movement? Not very. OWS is a statement. It's there.

The rest of us are afraid to act. We refuse to get involved, and in doing so, we relinquish our rights to protest anything. The fear of repercussions keep us immobile. That's what I am seeing.

Originally posted by Druid42
reply to post by Phantom28804

 

See, in an essence, this is what this is all about. How feasible is organization outside of the OWS movement? Not very. OWS is a statement. It's there.

And it's boring, outlived its usefulness, assuming it had any. It just remins the "rest of us" (the 80 or 85% of us that are working at real jobs. I dunno what the "real" unemployment rate. I know it's higher than the recently supportd 8.6% is all.) In any case, we're working to support the OWS movement's EBT cards.

The rest of us are afraid to act. We refuse to get involved, and in doing so, we relinquish our rights to protest anything. The fear of repercussions keep us immobile. That's what I am seeing.

Actually, the rest of us are not afraid to act. It's just that we won't react in the way the OWS movement wants us to. And if you want to really take it to the streets, we're armed and you get to throw rocks. I like those odds. I thank OWS for that because it focuses us on who the enemy really is: OWS. OWS is the 1%, the loonies who want to take us to a communist state. The irony that is lost on OWS is that the loonies who comprise the movement would do no better in a socialist or communist state than they do in this one. They would still be at the bottom of the totem pole, except they would be living four families to an apartment in Moscow, with a lot more poor people around them. "The only problem with socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." And with no incentive to do well, no one does. Look at history for confirmation. In fact, look at any socialist country and compare salaries. Hey! You could be a teacher in Sweden and make $1200 a month! That'll guarantee you an EBT card in the states.

reply to post by schuyler


I agree with you 100% the saddest thing is OWS doesn't even realize they are pushing socialism. They have fallen into that same trap that a lot of people do. They actually think they are working for a better world and in reality they don't know what they are bringing in.

I do have to say I make about 1200 a month and I don't have a EBT card