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Have you seen this? "Senate Wants the Military to Lock You Up Without Trial"

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posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:06 AM
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Here’s the best thing that can be said about the new detention powers the Senate has tucked into next year’s defense bill: They don’t force the military to detain American citizens indefinitely without a trial. They just let the military do that. And even though the leaders of the military and the spy community have said they want no such power, the Senate is poised to pass its bill as early as tonight. There are still changes swirling around the Senate, but this looks like the basic shape of the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act. Someone the government says is “a member of, or part of, al-Qaida or an associated force” can be held in military custody “without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force.” Those hostilities are currently scheduled to end the Wednesday after never. The move would shut down criminal trials for terror suspects.


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edit on 3-12-2011 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-12-2011 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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well you know now that you mention it, whatever happened to that simon gray character?



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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Everyone is over dramatizing this, if you a re a US citizen and not taking part in terrorist activities this law does not apply to you.

All this law does is make so that the military can do the arresting instead of the civilian law enforcement, it doesn't change the fact that these laws where already in effect, except that it will now be the military doing the arresting instead of the local cops.

Why would the local police be involved in international terrorism for that matter, if you look at this way it will make sense.

Terrorism is an act of war by my standards and the military should be the ones to handle it in my opinion.
edit on 3-12-2011 by mileysubet because: (no reason given)

edit on 3-12-2011 by mileysubet because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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No, I haven't seen this. Certainly not on any of the 50 threads authored daily on the subject.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:24 AM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 



Everyone is over dramatizing this, if you a re a US citizen and not taking part in terrorist activities this law does not apply to you.


next it will be "your neighbor down the street WAS a terrorist. don't worry, we're not coming for you next"

trials are used to determine whether someone is guilty or not. trials are where evidence is presented. this applies to every american, you seem eager to give up your rights.

actually, i heard you were a closet muslim extremist. i'll ring up the FBI so that they can process you. you don't have anything to hide, do you? good! then wait in this nice cozy cell while we "examine the evidence".





posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:27 AM
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just like any law, it will be abused by the government. what makes you a terrorist suspect. buying 15 bags of fertilizer at home depot.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 


And guess who defines who's a 'terrorist'.. the same special interest we've been railing against all along. This is a precursor to totalitarian rule; that a handful of corruptible power-grabbers get to choose whether or nor you're a terror suspect, and can abduct essentially ANYONE they want to. I don't think you'll be so willing to accept this when you get carted off to a torture prison for being a anti-government 'terrorist'. What exactly happens if they decide ATS members are terrorist?



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:47 AM
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Originally posted by Raelsatu
reply to post by mileysubet
 


And guess who defines who's a 'terrorist'.. the same special interest we've been railing against all along. This is a precursor to totalitarian rule; that a handful of corruptible power-grabbers get to choose whether or nor you're a terror suspect, and can abduct essentially ANYONE they want to. I don't think you'll be so willing to accept this when you get carted off to a torture prison for being a anti-government 'terrorist'. What exactly happens if they decide ATS members are terrorist?


or people who use medical cannabis?
or occupy wall street protesters?
or people who stock up on food, guns, ammo and camping gear?
or people who are not christian?
or a neighborhood of poor people stealing to eat?

trial by jury protects the citizens.

-subfab



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by subfab

Originally posted by Raelsatu
reply to post by mileysubet
 


And guess who defines who's a 'terrorist'.. the same special interest we've been railing against all along. This is a precursor to totalitarian rule; that a handful of corruptible power-grabbers get to choose whether or nor you're a terror suspect, and can abduct essentially ANYONE they want to. I don't think you'll be so willing to accept this when you get carted off to a torture prison for being a anti-government 'terrorist'. What exactly happens if they decide ATS members are terrorist?


or people who use medical cannabis?
or occupy wall street protesters?
or people who stock up on food, guns, ammo and camping gear?
or people who are not christian?
or a neighborhood of poor people stealing to eat?

trial by jury protects the citizens.

-subfab


imagine how many "terrorist" will be able to be arrest. by military now...
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posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by mileysubet
 



Everyone is over dramatizing this, if you a re a US citizen and not taking part in terrorist activities this law does not apply to you.


next it will be "your neighbor down the street WAS a terrorist. don't worry, we're not coming for you next"

trials are used to determine whether someone is guilty or not. trials are where evidence is presented. this applies to every american, you seem eager to give up your rights.

actually, i heard you were a closet muslim extremist. i'll ring up the FBI so that they can process you. you don't have anything to hide, do you? good! then wait in this nice cozy cell while we "examine the evidence".





Nope I have absolutely nothing to hide come on over, let me fix you a cup of coffee, in fact invite the feds or what ever military personnel you wish I will fix some coffee for then as well.

Your not giving up rights you never had.....these laws have been in place for decades, if you are a terrorist then you will be treated as such. The only change to this is the fact that it is now the military that will be doing the arresting...

As terrorism is a military issue, or maybe in your mind it is domestic and should be handled by the local police. What is the difference? These people that are arrested will not be held without trial, quote me a single paragraph from this bill that says that they will not be offered a trial in court.
edit on 3-12-2011 by mileysubet because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:17 AM
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People are crying about being arrested unfairly, but I would be led to believe with my experience with law enforcement that an unlawful arrest is few and far between.

Most of the time when you hear the FULL STORY of an arrest it falls under the category that most if not all US citizens would consider justified. Unfortunately most her on ATS just run with the biased reporting done here and often overlook the facts to meet their own agenda.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:21 AM
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Originally posted by mileysubet
People are crying about being arrested unfairly, but I would be led to believe with my experience with law enforcement that an unlawful arrest is few and far between.

Most of the time when you hear the FULL STORY of an arrest it falls under the category that most if not all US citizens would consider justified. Unfortunately most her on ATS just run with the biased reporting done here and often overlook the facts to meet their own agenda.



In a nutshell "The MSM is full of crap, unless they are telling me stories i want to hear"



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:23 AM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 

more like they'll break down your door at 1 in the morning, tazer you for sleeping, because everyone knows that is a form of resisting arrest, and declare you a terrorist.

now, you've been declared a terrorist. you're an enemy combatant, and you don't get a trial to review any evidence of these charges.

i've heard getting sodomized at gitmo isn't so bad...after the first few times.

you honestly don't see a problem with such loose terminology? what is the definition of "enemy combatant"? well..it can mean anything from someone who is blogging about government corruption (because obviously anyone holding that opinion must be al qaeda) to an upstart politician.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by PrimalRed

Originally posted by mileysubet
People are crying about being arrested unfairly, but I would be led to believe with my experience with law enforcement that an unlawful arrest is few and far between.

Most of the time when you hear the FULL STORY of an arrest it falls under the category that most if not all US citizens would consider justified. Unfortunately most her on ATS just run with the biased reporting done here and often overlook the facts to meet their own agenda.



In a nutshell "The MSM is full of crap, unless they are telling me stories i want to hear"


No not at all....Stop putting words in my mouth or trying to paraphrase what I have said.

If you have a rebuttal then I would like to hear it, but so far all you have tried to do is twist what I have said to reflect what you want it to mean, this is a problem here on ATS.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by mileysubet
 

more like they'll break down your door at 1 in the morning, tazer you for sleeping, because everyone knows that is a form of resisting arrest, and declare you a terrorist.

now, you've been declared a terrorist. you're an enemy combatant, and you don't get a trial to review any evidence of these charges.

i've heard getting sodomized at gitmo isn't so bad...after the first few times.

you honestly don't see a problem with such loose terminology? what is the definition of "enemy combatant"? well..it can mean anything from someone who is blogging about government corruption (because obviously anyone holding that opinion must be al qaeda) to an upstart politician.


Over dramatizing again, they would have done at least the minimal amount of homework on your case.

If you or your family (or inhabitants of your household) have been up to no good then sure.

There are points even the military would need to meet to arrest a US citizen, but then again I would not be telling you this if you had actually read the bill in question...



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by mileysubet
 

more like they'll break down your door at 1 in the morning, tazer you for sleeping, because everyone knows that is a form of resisting arrest, and declare you a terrorist.

now, you've been declared a terrorist. you're an enemy combatant, and you don't get a trial to review any evidence of these charges.

i've heard getting sodomized at gitmo isn't so bad...after the first few times.

you honestly don't see a problem with such loose terminology? what is the definition of "enemy combatant"? well..it can mean anything from someone who is blogging about government corruption (because obviously anyone holding that opinion must be al qaeda) to an upstart politician.


Enemy combatant is a term historically referring to members of the armed forces of the state with which another state is at war. In other words not a US citizen, as this is a bill from the US. Pretty simple.

If you are an armed force from another state (I.E. country) then you have something to worry about.


Definition form the "Joint Publication 1-02" Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms: enemy combatant — In general, a person engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners during an armed conflict. Also called EC. (DODD 2310.01E)

Link to Miltary Doc


edit on 3-12-2011 by mileysubet because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 


Thanks Miley, what is up with the Paranoia these days? There has not been Habeus Corpus
in certain cases since the Original Patriot Act. I guess there are quite a few "Sketchy" characters
around here as of late. It figures.

For Calibration, I think that the rights of Habeus Corpus are in accordance with the certain
inalienable rights as put forth in The United States Constitution.

The trouble is that there are people who can prove to be Americans on paper, yet their actions
and intent
suggest them nothing of the sort.

For example, a fellow waves a U.S. Passport and smiles at you at dusk, but then plants
anti personnel mines by night, and then fires at you at dawn.

But by 9 a.m. waves his U.S.passport and offers you a cup of coffee,

What would you suggest would be the best way to handle that?

That is the war we are fighting. We have done so in a humanitarian way. (compared to our alternatives)

As Political Correctness requires. Our "enemy" has capitalized on our tactics.

If we decide to be ruthless? God forgive us, and God help them.

Hang in there Miley, accept no dissent.
edit on 3-12-2011 by Wildmanimal because: distracting crossfire



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:56 AM
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reply to post by mileysubet
 

patriot act definition of "domestic terrorism" under section 802: acts that -



(i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.


blogs and protests fit the bill for domestic terrorism. this kind of language is dangerous and doesn't belong in a nation of people with unalienable rights.

have you read animal farm? it's a good analogy/summary of how it always happens.

oh, and lets not forget section 806:


Section 806 amended the civil asset forfeiture statute to authorize the government to seize and forfeit: all assets, foreign or domestic (i) of any individual, entity, or organization engaged in planning or perpetrating any act of domestic or international terrorism against the United States, or their property, and all assets, foreign or domestic, affording any person a source of influence over any such entity or organization

www.aclu.org...
edit on 3-12-2011 by Bob Sholtz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 02:57 AM
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Originally posted by Wildmanimal
reply to post by mileysubet
 


Thanks Miley, what is up with the Paranoia these days? There has not been Habeus Corpus
in certain cases since the Original Patriot Act. I guess there are quite a few "Sketchy" characters
around here as of late. It figures.

For Calibration, I think that the rights of Habeus Corpus are in accordance with the certain
inalienable rights as put forth in The United States Constitution.

The trouble is that there are people who can prove to be Americans on paper, yet their actions
and intent
suggest them nothing of the sort.

For example, a fellow waves a U.S. Passport and smiles at you at dusk, but then plants
anti personnel mines by night, and then fires at you at dawn.

But by 9 a.m. waves his U.S.passport and offers you a cup of coffee,

What would you suggest would be the best way to handle that?

That is the war we are fighting. We have done so in a humanitarian way.

As Political Correctness requires. Our "enemy" has capitalized on our tactics.

If we decide to be ruthless? God forgive us.


Some very good points, Wild and I agree with what you are saying. This is a complicated issue we are dealing with a s a country.

As you said: "As Political Correctness requires. Our "enemy" has capitalized on our tactics." . The idea that we need to step up and take control of the situation is in the forefront of my mind. We need to change tactics and out think them so to speak.

We need to become a community again, a community against violence/religiousness intolerance/racism and other forms of regression of the human race.

The only true enemy we face is that of our selves.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by mileysubet
 

patriot act definition of "domestic terrorism" under section 802: acts that -



(i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.


blogs and protests fit the bill for domestic terrorism. this kind of language is dangerous and doesn't belong in a nation of people with unalienable rights.

have you read animal farm? it's a good analogy/summary of how it always happens.


You are absolutely correct, but only of those blogs/protest and post promote terrorism... So again what is the issue?

There is nothing against blogging for change or crying that the current president is an idiot, but if you are threatening the populace with violence in a blog or any other medium how are you not a terrorist? Any action that uses violence to change or sway the public is terrorism.

Believe it or not the military is smart enough to figure this out.

If you are threatening violence on people regardless of who they are then you are a terrorist, otherwise you have nothing to worry about, in regards to this bill.




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