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Obama’s Top Advisor Advocates Communism

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posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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Well, those of us who were called conspiracy theorists for claiming that Obama wants to fundamentally transform America and throw out the constitution have been vindicated. This no longer falls under the realm of conspiracy! The ideas in this recent interview come from an American with very close ties to the president. The fact that this has been made public is the only really shocking aspect to me. I’ve known for years that Obama wants to rule America in proper communist fashion and this interview is a look inside the mind of people within our government with that in mind. Andy Stern, former president of the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), is a top advisor to Obama. This guy openly bashes capitalism and praises the communist model. This administration is so brazen that they don’t even try to hide their intentions anymore. Why bother?? Who is going to call them on it in the Media?? I hope America is paying attention!


Stern makes it abundantly clear that in his view, the capitalist economic model that fostered American prosperity over the last two centuries is now obsolete. The "free-market fundamentalist, shareholder-only model," as he calls it, "is being thrown onto the trash heap of history." What has replaced it is the centrally planned economy, with its 5-year plans and state allocation of resources, as practiced in China and other communist states. In particular, Stern lauds the achievements of Chinese communist hard-liner Bo Xilai, mayor of Chongqing and popular spokesman for a resurgent Chinese nationalism. According to Stern, who recently toured China (sponsored by the left-leaning Center for American Progress), Chongqing is a city on the move with "1.5 million square feet" going up daily and "700,000 new units of public housing annually."


Forget about who would uphold the constitution better between Newt and Ron Paul. We have people in the White House RIGHT NOW trying to throw out the constitution all together.


Stern seems to have swallowed the Chinese communist hype hook, line, and sinker. Not since Edgar Snow's The Long Revolution has there appeared such an unabashedly fawning report on the Red Star rising in the East. Not content to laud the achievements of the state-run economy, Stern seems to go out of his way to diminish the recent accomplishments of American capitalism. He sneeringly refers to "Team USA's results" of high unemployment, stagnant wage growth, trade deficits, and income inequality. All of this, he believes, is the consequence of America's inability to emulate China and other state-planned economies.
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How many people believe a more powerful central government would better serve the people of this country? I surely don’t! Any thoughts?




posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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While communism is far from perfect, we can't really say that capitalism is.
How can capitalism not eventually become a corporation dominated world unless it is controlled...then is it really capitalism?

What's the next "ism" we haven't really tried it yet?

edit on 2-12-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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Just to point out the American Thinker article is attributing comments made by Andy GROVE to Andy STERN. Stern wrote the op-ed piece in the WSJ that was based much on comments given by Andy Grove. I don't like articles or authors who either purposely or ignorantly munges opinions and comments from multiple sources into one bogeyman that they can conveniently attack.

ETA:

No where does Stern - or Grove, et. al., advocate COMMUNISM.

NO WHERE IN THAT ARTICLE IS THAT STATED.

They are correct however in pointing out just how BROKEN our form of economy is - and especially correct in pointing out that China's economy has turned into a Juggernaut. They are pointing out the things that makes China's economy work.
edit on 2-12-2011 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by User8911
 


Capitalism works great when it’s properly run. Capitalism is controlled by our government (in theory) through laws, regulations and oversight. When that safety net fails we end up with what we have now….crony capitalism (or corporatism) which is very similar to communism. The government shouldn't have a strong interest on the success of any business...it should be impartial and apply the laws, regulations and oversight equitably.

The government is responsible for the mess we’re in because they allowed this to happen for their own personal gain.

It doesn’t seem logical to think that the only way we can fix the problems created by our government is by MORE GOVERNMENT? We need to separate the power of government from the influence of corporations, not give the government even more power through communist rule!



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
Just to point out the American Thinker article is attributing comments made by Andy GROVE to Andy STERN. Stern wrote the op-ed piece in the WSJ that was based much on comments given by Andy Grove. I don't like articles or authors who either purposely or ignorantly munges opinions and comments from multiple sources into one bogeyman that they can conveniently attack.

ETA:

No where does Stern - or Grove, et. al., advocate COMMUNISM.

NO WHERE IN THAT ARTICLE IS THAT STATED.

They are correct however in pointing out just how BROKEN our form of economy is - and especially correct in pointing out that China's economy has turned into a Juggernaut. They are pointing out the things that makes China's economy work.
edit on 2-12-2011 by Blackmarketeer because: (no reason given)


Andy Stern’s article in WSJ does refer to Andy Grove’s article from a year ago but the parts I quoted from American Thinker are based on what Stern said, not what Grove (even though most of the article describes how he agrees with Grove). Stern made his beliefs quite clear in the article. He thinks our system is failed and we need government to steer us to prosperity…like communist China? China doesn’t seem like a country to emulate when it comes to economic issues!!



Poverty in China is often overshadowed by average annual GDP growth rates of 9% or more. According to the World Bank and UN statistics, approximately 200 million Chinese people live on less than US$1.25/day; Furthermore, 482 million people live on less than US$2/day – a figure that is greater than the populations of the US, Germany and the UK combined.

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edit on 2-12-2011 by seabag because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by User8911
While communism is far from perfect, we can't really say that capitalism is.
How can capitalism not eventually become a corporation dominated world unless it is controlled...then is it really capitalism?

What's the next "ism" we haven't really tried it yet?

edit on 2-12-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)


Tell me agian where humanity have tried comunism. I have never heard of a communist state where the decisions are made by the people collectivly and not by politicians. You must mean all the so called "comunist" contries in history that have always stoped before implementing the true comunist state. Whenever the pyramid of power is used it will fail. Comunism or capitalism don't do any differnace. In china you are a slave to the party. In US your a slave to the companies. China is a dictatorship that is rulled by the politicans that use a form of capitalism. One day in the far future we can hope we will see a true communist state where all is decided on the lowest local level by the people thru electornic voting where the majority decides. And where you can move to another place in that state if you don't like the rules in that community to a place where they more fit you. A dynamic solution for a dynamic people. Namaste.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by User8911
 


Capitalism works great when it’s properly run. Capitalism is controlled by our government (in theory) through laws, regulations and oversight. When that safety net fails we end up with what we have now….crony capitalism (or corporatism) which is very similar to communism. The government shouldn't have a strong interest on the success of any business...it should be impartial and apply the laws, regulations and oversight equitably.

The government is responsible for the mess we’re in because they allowed this to happen for their own personal gain.

It doesn’t seem logical to think that the only way we can fix the problems created by our government is by MORE GOVERNMENT? We need to separate the power of government from the influence of corporations, not give the government even more power through communist rule!



Capitalism is the furthering of your ego. Get as most resources that you can on either your own work or on the investment you have made. By investing money you can get rent and make money from other peoples work and the better you do your job the higher the price you sell and the lower you pay for the workers. The idee is to get as much for your self and leave everybody else with the bill. The best markets are monopolies where you can make a fortune. And if you have enought money normal laws don't apply anymore and you can buy laws and power. What you see is not the goverments failure to stand up to corporations. It is the companies success to use their money to change the goverment thru coruption. If you make laws that companies can only be this big or have to follow law then it is no longer capitalism. It's a form of planned economy or limited capitalism. The pyramid is still there and as long as it is uphold, the corruption will continue in one form or another. Namaste
edit on 2-12-2011 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 08:20 PM
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reply to post by apushforenlightment
 



Capitalism is the furthering of your ego. Get as most resources that you can on either your own work or on the investment you have made. By investing money you can get rent and make money from other peoples work and the better you do your job the higher the price you sell and the lower you pay for the workers. The idee is to get as much for your self and leave everybody else with the bill.



That’s about the most ignorant thing I’ve heard in a while!


If you invest money that you earned into several companies, you’re helping those companies grow. When the companies grow, those who have contributed to its growth make money (workers, investors, shareholders, etc). If you’ve contributed nothing to the company’s growth or prosperity (i.e. –you didn’t work there, invest in the company, buy stock, etc) then you don’t deserve to reap the rewards of that company’s success. Period.

All a company owes its employees is a fair work environment and wages owed. Working for a company alone doesn’t mean you are entitled to PROFIT SHARING. After all, you didn’t risk capital.


The best markets are monopolies where you can make a fortune. And if you have enought money normal laws don't apply anymore and you can buy laws and power. What you see is not the goverments failure to stand up to corporations. It is the companies success to use their money to change the goverment thru coruption.


This is a difference of opinion. My opinion is that it takes two people to tango. If the people who are supposed to regulate allow themselves to be bought out then they are at fault IMO. You can’t blame the companies for trying…



If you make laws that companies can only be this big or have to follow law then it is no longer capitalism. It's a form of planned economy or limited capitalism. The pyramid is still there and as long as it is uphold, the corruption will continue in one form or another.


The way you limit the power of companies is through monopoly laws and regulation. If companies were limited in their efforts to interact with politicians we could stop the crony capitalism.

First we need honest representatives, then laws and regulations to prevent the cronyism, followed by severe penalties when it happens.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by apushforenlightment
 


The big difference between capitalism and communism is this – Capitalism works on paper…communism fails on paper.

Communism only benefits the few (very few - elites). Look at every communist country in history and you will see the following:

• the disparity between the haves and have not’s is greater,
• the ability to rise to the top is diminished,
• the amount of people living in poverty is greater,
• the amount of people in the “middle class” is far smaller,
• the central government makes all the corporate profits,
• the people own nothing and government owns everything, and
• there is no freedom…people have no recourse to change things!

You need only look at the past 230+ years in America to see that capitalism is a better system. No system is perfect but the one thing that corrupts all political systems is the PEOPLE! Look at the bigger picture and you’ll see that it’s individual people that corrupt systems (the weakest links break the chain). Knowing that, we need only pick the system with the best chance of empowering the population. That system is capitalism in a democratic republic.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 08:38 PM
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commieblaster.com...

Here is a link to all the other Communists that Obama has appointed.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 



Communism only benefits the few (very few - elites). Look at every communist country in history and you will see the following:

• the disparity between the haves and have not’s is greater,
• the ability to rise to the top is diminished,
• the amount of people living in poverty is greater,
• the amount of people in the “middle class” is far smaller,
• the central government makes all the corporate profits,
• the people own nothing and government owns everything, and
• there is no freedom…people have no recourse to change things!



Hmmm.

Sounds familiar.

A little like the "corporatism" we are seeing in many countries.

substitute the word "corporations" in place of "government" above, and we get close.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by seabag
 



Communism only benefits the few (very few - elites). Look at every communist country in history and you will see the following:

• the disparity between the haves and have not’s is greater,
• the ability to rise to the top is diminished,
• the amount of people living in poverty is greater,
• the amount of people in the “middle class” is far smaller,
• the central government makes all the corporate profits,
• the people own nothing and government owns everything, and
• there is no freedom…people have no recourse to change things!



Hmmm.

Sounds familiar.

A little like the "corporatism" we are seeing in many countries.

substitute the word "corporations" in place of "government" above, and we get close.



Really??


I'm with you, bro! You are right, it’s VERY close to corporatism. In America, this condition REALLY escalated under Bush. Obama is pushing it to straight up COMMUNISM. There isn’t much difference, right?

This is why we need to change our representatives. It was a slow republican transistion over 8 years of Bush. It's been a RUN TO THIS FINISH LINE under Obama. 4 more years of him and we'll be there!!!



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:47 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Communism only benefits the few (very few - elites). Look at every communist country in history...


Yes but this isn't what communism is suppose to be on paper


Communism is a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of a classless, moneyless, revolutionary and stateless socialist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production.


Classless...this is what communism is on paper.
I know it sounds crazy for people that firmly believe in capitalism, but the honor of working together towards a common goal can actually be more rewarding then personal wealth...say like, curing people, going in space, understanding the universe...

But no, I guess pursuing capitalism where making money is the most important thing will make human civilization great. A system where at least 33% of the people making money don't really achieve anything towards evolution but towards monopoly for their ego.

What you describe as communism isn't that at all.
Your describing why communism failed and why ego is just as bad in any "ism".



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by User8911
 



Yes but this isn't what communism is suppose to be on paper


Ya, pretty much! 


Classless...this is what communism is on paper. 
I know it sounds crazy for people that firmly believe in capitalism, but the honor of working together towards a common goal can actually be more rewarding then personal wealth...say like, curing people, going in space, understanding the universe...


Classless? Well that's being dishonest, isn't it? Seems that in China more than half the country lives FAR below the poverty level. A few are "middle class" and the rest are wealthy public officials. They have classes. 

The wealth redistribution Obama wants is a step toward the "classless" society communists desire, isn't it?

What good is being equal if we're all equally broke?



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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The United States has not been a Free Market Economy for well over a century. Once the first law was placed on the books that limited business in any way it became an economy mixed between a market economy and a planned economy (of which a communist economy is a subset).

A transition from a mixed to a fully planned economy would not be unconstitutional in any way nor would it require the Constitution to be "thrown out", as you so irrationally stated in your OP. However it would be a better idea to keep it a mixed economy but move the slider more towards the "planned" portion of the mix.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by SG-17
 



The United States has not been a Free Market Economy for well over a century. Once the first law was placed on the books that limited business in any way it became an economy mixed between a market economy and a planned economy (of which a communist economy is a subset).


Well you like to play semantics and act smart but the US remains a free market. I can open a business tomorrow in any industry and compete globally. Seems free to me! Try that in China. 


A transition from a mixed to a fully planned economy would not be unconstitutional in any way nor would it require the Constitution to be "thrown out", as you so irrationally stated in your OP. However it would be a better idea to keep it a mixed economy but move the slider more towards the "planned" portion of the mix.
 

There is nothing irrational about what I've stated. The government is like a slow creeping cancer and has no place meddling in the economy. The Federal Reserve act needs to be repealed and the government should have no financial ties to business. "Planned" economy means more government meddling...we don't need that. 

Thankfully you aren't in charge of anything. 



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by SG-17
 



The United States has not been a Free Market Economy for well over a century. Once the first law was placed on the books that limited business in any way it became an economy mixed between a market economy and a planned economy (of which a communist economy is a subset).


Well you like to play semantics and act smart but the US remains a free market. I can open a business tomorrow in any industry and compete globally. Seems free to me! Try that in China. 


A transition from a mixed to a fully planned economy would not be unconstitutional in any way nor would it require the Constitution to be "thrown out", as you so irrationally stated in your OP. However it would be a better idea to keep it a mixed economy but move the slider more towards the "planned" portion of the mix.
 

There is nothing irrational about what I've stated. The government is like a slow creeping cancer and has no place meddling in the economy. The Federal Reserve act needs to be repealed and the government should have no financial ties to business. "Planned" economy means more government meddling...we don't need that. 

Thankfully you aren't in charge of anything. 

Right, the government has no place in the economy. So lets gather up some children and make them work in dangerous situations for a half-cent a day. Better yet, lets be cheap and use lead-based paint, oh and lets not bother sanitizing our food processing equipment, people will have to buy it anyway since we bought out all of the competition!



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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Originally posted by seabag
Classless? Well that's being dishonest, isn't it?


Yes they are being dishonest with communism.

Communism is utopia because humans that generally take the power are not good leaders.

The best leaders do not take the lead by force, they are elected.
A real communism leader would need to be incorruptible by greed and power...sadly, most people that do want power are easily corruptible.

If I was elected, I would do everything in my willpower to not succumb to injustice and greed.
The honor alone of being a good leader would be all that my ego needs.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by SG-17

Right, the government has no place in the economy. So lets gather up some children and make them work in dangerous situations for a half-cent a day. Better yet, lets be cheap and use lead-based paint, oh and lets not bother sanitizing our food processing equipment, people will have to buy it anyway since we bought out all of the competition!


You’re going from one extreme to the other!
Logical Fallacy - False Choice!

Governments role in business is to regulate (not over regulate), to create laws that prevent unfair business practices (not overburden businesses with ridiculous rules) and to prevent unfair monopolies (not take bribes or do things in exchange for money). What we have now is a far cry from the way things were designed to be. Companies have bought and paid for our so-called representatives and those representatives are no longer looking out for us but rather their own personal interests (crony capitalism).

The ties between politicians and corporations needs to be virtually non-existent. The laws will speak for themselves. We surely don't need the government running businesses and we can't afford to allow an environment that gives businesses any opportunity to corrupt the political system!

Nobody is advocating that government not regulate businesses. If that’s what you think conservatives want when I said “the government should have no financial ties to business” then no wonder you dislike conservatives!



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SG-17

Right, the government has no place in the economy. So lets gather up some children and make them work in dangerous situations for a half-cent a day. Better yet, lets be cheap and use lead-based paint, oh and lets not bother sanitizing our food processing equipment, people will have to buy it anyway since we bought out all of the competition!


Nobody is advocating that government not regulate businesses. If that’s what you think conservatives want when I said “the government should have no financial ties to business” then no wonder you dislike conservatives!
Actually you did just that.


The government is like a slow creeping cancer and has no place meddling in the economy.



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