5 Graphs That Will Make Your Mouth Drop!

Originally posted by peck420


If the US dollar drops, it could reinvigorate the manufacturing sector, which could negate the increase in dollars.

What manufacturing sector?

It's all gone to China.

The capitalists have abandoned American workers for more profit due to cheaper labour. Yet they expect those same workers to buy their products in America. Idiots! Chopped off their heads to save their hands. Too interested in keeping their profit margins, than investing in Americans.

American labour cannot compete with China. They get paid 6c to make a shirt they sell to you for $60. Can you work for those kind of wages? Of course not.

Originally posted by ANOK
What manufacturing sector?

It's all gone to China.

The capitalists have abandoned American workers for more profit due to cheaper labour. Yet they expect those same workers to buy their products in America. Idiots! Chopped off their heads to save their hands. Too interested in keeping their profit margins, than investing in Americans.

American labour cannot compete with China. They get paid 6c to make a shirt they sell to you for $60. Can you work for those kind of wages? Of course not.

edit on 12/2/2011 by ANOK because: typo

American labour can not compete today. What about tomorrow? What about when Chinese (Urban and Rural) pay is equal in value to US pay (estimated at 10-15 years)?

The funny thing about pay is that it is only relevant to the local economy. You can't compare rates of pay across the US let alone from China to US, as they are (literally) worlds apart.

Here is an example I am very familiar with. A Canadian, in Edmonton, only needs to make around 2/3's what a Canadian in Vancouver does to have an equal standard of living. Why? The costs of living are substantially different in each city. The same is true for US / China comparisons.

Ironically, if you include value/dollar in military spending, China is currently tied with the US for expenditures.

The same goes for the workers wages. The average US wage is $45,000 (approx) where as the average Chinese wage in urban China, if adjusted for purchasing power, is $60,000 (approx).

The only area China is significantly behind the US is in rural development, but to be fair that was the last area to increase when the US grew to power as well, so they should see growth there in approx 10 years.

Originally posted by peck420
American labour can not compete today. What about tomorrow? What about when Chinese (Urban and Rural) pay is equal in value to US pay (estimated at 10-15 years)?

Yes that will happen. They'll simply move on to the next impoverished nation to exploit leaving China, like the USA, to sink back into poverty. The cycle of capitalist exploitation continues...

The funny thing about pay is that it is only relevant to the local economy. You can't compare rates of pay across the US let alone from China to US, as they are (literally) worlds apart.

That is true, but 6c for a shirt is still an extremely low wage in China, unless you're extremely fast, and can work all hours lol. That is the very reason wages will eventually increase to equal US pay, as you mentioned. But that really wasn't my main point, it's the disparity between the wage for making the shirt, and the price it sells for.
Capitalists making massive profit, while the worker receives very little in comparison. Exploiting impoverished people until they can no longer get away with paying low wages. Workers are required to produce more than they are paid for, in order for the 'private owner' to make profit. That is exploitation. In a worker owned industry the worker would receive a far larger share of the product they produce.

Another problem is as Chinese labour gets more expensive prices will rise in the US, as our income decreases. Product pricing will reflect their economy more than ours.

(BTW I quote China but there are other countries involved obvioulsy, India for example)

Originally posted by havok
Can you resize the graphs as to show the last decade?

All of them seem cut off around 2000.



Just a suggestion...then I'll comment.

Please use the scroll at the bottom of each picture in order to view the entire image.

reply to post by camaro68ss


We know that these graphs can't be accurate, as it has been revealed recently that the FED added over 20 TRILLION to the money supply in the last couple years.
An accurate representation of that would need a much larger graph!

There is no point employing a worker if you dont have someone to purchase what the employee is making. The wastern world ran out of buyers. So China has been given access to trillions to create buyers of American/Euro(German) products. This is one of the few actions global leaders are getting right. Creating a broader global middle class for a greater potential to skim the creame off the top. It was the same in Japan and now thier wages have balanced and it will be the same in China and the eventually Africa.

If anyone thinks America is headed for hyper-inflation, they know little about economics and geopolitics and history.

Originally posted by Logman
If anyone thinks America is headed for hyper-inflation, they know little about economics and geopolitics and history.

Instead of cryptic comments, maybe you could shed shed some light on the subject form your enlightened wisdom...

I would like to hear what you have to say in the argument.

Originally posted by peck420
American labour can not compete today. What about tomorrow? What about when Chinese (Urban and Rural) pay is equal in value to US pay (estimated at 10-15 years)?

What about elimination of free trade? I'm serious. Washington DC could, with the stroke of a pen tomorrow, do the right things and enact crippling tariffs on all imported goods along with rewriting the law to clearly state "Made in the USA" means MADE IN THE USA. Within 6 months this nation would be reliving the boom years of the 50s and 60s when the production sector built the greatest economy on Earth.

Globalism is a loser's game for the US. Time to deleverage from the world and, if resistance is encountered, finally put all those military expenditures to *good* use, defending this country.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


The cold war, enabled that boom in US goods and manufacturing.
The tensions were frozen and the US was able to export to the nato
and other countries without the compertion of lower cost products.
if you cancell out free trade china would begin to dump it's 1.2 trillion
in treasuries, making them worthless and killing the US ecconomy.

Originally posted by peck420
Not necessarily.

If the US dollar drops, it could reinvigorate the manufacturing sector, which could negate the increase in dollars.

Doubt it. That'll will only happen if the USD loses reserve status and American salaries become as low as that of Bangladesh's.

Originally posted by relyt
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Well here is Germany and Zimbabwe's charts for ya and they do not look good.
German Hyperinflation
Zimbabwe

Also here is a good video from Chris Martenson to also explain what we are going through right now.

edit on 2-12-2011 by relyt because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-12-2011 by relyt because: misspell of video author

everyone needs to watch this and understand. I love ATS for this very reason

Originally posted by Logman
If anyone thinks America is headed for hyper-inflation, they know little about economics and geopolitics and history.

Its not just hyper-inflation they head for. And not only the US. Much much worse.

Stats are like a miniskirt... it shows you a whole lot but nothing important.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
What about elimination of free trade? I'm serious.

Globalism is a loser's game for the US.

You are absolutely correct. It's a losers game for the West in general, or at least the working and middle classes.

Global free trade is based on David Ricardo's theory of comparative advantage.

Comparative Advantage

The theory is flawed when applied to the real world.

Basically the theory says that if the US specializes in producing what it is best at making and other counties do the same, then everyone is better off if they trade.

But it is flawed.

(1) It assumes that US capital will be re-employed in the US to specialize at what the US is best at making.

In reality, US capital flows out of the US and builds factories in China.

China has obviously studied the theory. China has severe restrictions on capital flowing out, but naturally allows foreign capital to build factories to flow in.

(2) The theory also assumes that capital can be converted to other uses without loss. Steel mills to sheep farms, for instance.

In real life, when a steel mill goes out of business, that capital is destroyed. I remember speaking to one economist who just couldn't grasp that concept. Apparently, by magic a steal mill that is now worthless is transformed into something else.

To cut a long story short, if capital is allowed to flow out of the US then what will occur is wage arbitrage - not specialization of countries but rather companies being forced to build factories in the countries with the lowest wages.

Wage Arbitrage

US wages are forced down while Chinese wages go up.

Funnily enough, that is exactly what has been happening.


By the way, economists cannot refute anything I have written. But understand, free trade is like a religious belief to them.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by peck420
American labour can not compete today. What about tomorrow? What about when Chinese (Urban and Rural) pay is equal in value to US pay (estimated at 10-15 years)?

What about elimination of free trade? I'm serious. Washington DC could, with the stroke of a pen tomorrow, do the right things and enact crippling tariffs on all imported goods along with rewriting the law to clearly state "Made in the USA" means MADE IN THE USA. Within 6 months this nation would be reliving the boom years of the 50s and 60s when the production sector built the greatest economy on Earth.

i so agree with you tho imo id like to see some attempt at providing very poor countries with employment as a partial secondary goal,eg a break on the tarrifs to limited friendly countries when we could, if certain human/workers rights,fair wage/pollution, conditions are met and kept. just a suggestion that maybe we could better our selves and the world through peacefull economic means. maybe even increase the market size for potential manufactured in america products.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


I don't think you would want to remove free trade in its entirety. That would be disastrous to the US economy, more so than any of its free trade partners. Just off the top of my head, there are a couple of necessary imports that would sky rocket in price: ie: gas, electricity.

What you really want to do is limit free trade to countries with equal standards and rules.

Free trade between countries with similar standards (such as Canada and the US) have been very beneficial to all parties so far.

I have to say, the first graph is pretty epic.

It's like you can say 6 months into 2010, it quickly went straight into the vertical.

reply to post by eldard


You better tell that to Germany. The have (arguably) an equal standard of living as the US with a thriving manufacturing sector.

reply to post by ANOK


There have been serious issues with worker owned production as well.

There is no right way as long as we keep working in extremes...all private owned (current) or all worker owned (proposed).

What we need is a balance. But, that is very very difficult to maintain. We had a very good balance in my home province for a pretty good run (about 40 years) but the balance has started to shift to worker owned, and it is already starting to show it's weakness'.

I am at a loss as to how to get a stable balance arrangement, first country to figure it out will win, imho.