How can someone have a Near Death Experience and see people burning in Hell if The Bible says no one

reply to post by kindred

I suggest you read the Gospel of Thomas which contradicts quite a lot of what is written in the bible, probably the reason why it's banned from the bible. Most of what you talk about is nothing but dogma and doctrine.

Are you high? The Gnostic books were rejected because they were written hundreds of years after the supposed apostolic authors had died. And the Gnostics were not simply unbiblical in their doctrines, but anti-biblical.

The books that didn't make it into the canon of Scripture, such as the Gospel of Judas and the Gospel of Thomas, were not included because they were written long after both of those men died. The book credited to Judas was written by the Gnostic sect around 130-170 AD. These and other Gnostic gospels conflicted with the known teachings of Jesus and the Old Testament, and often contained numerous historical and geographical errors.

The Bible

The OP's original question can be answered by proof from the bible. Abraham's bosom as it states in the bible is where souls that are righteous go. The passage occurs in Luke Chapter 16 verses 19 to 31. This is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The good wait in Abraham bosom and the evil must wait in Hades where they are tormented. Both the good and the bad can see the place where they are not and who is included there. From the verse they can even communicate, although those in Hades cannot rise to the bosom of Abraham and those in the bosom of Abraham cannot go down to Hades.

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Luke 16:19-31

Originally posted by Silicis n Volvo
reply to post by arpgme

 

the bible is full of crap...religion is ridiculous and the sooner the world is rid of it the better. nobody goes to heaven or hell

The Bible is full of truth. Heaven and Hell do exist.
Lets think.
In the bible Damascus is reduced to rubble. Its about to happen again when stupid dumn athiests drop the M.O.A.B (Mother of all bombs) on Damascus when war breaks out in Syria. The M.O.A.B is the biggest conventional bomb ever made by stupid grunt athiest soldiers. Notice Moab south of Syria. Coincidence !!!
Notice. The Bible doesn't mention 'after death' in Damascus, hence no radiation or DU.

Stupid dumn athiest politicians are paying athiest arms dealers, weapons manufacturers, mad scientists and soldiers to kill athiest tax payers and voters in WW3. Stupid dumn athiest voters keep voting for war. Kosovo, Iraq, Afganistan etc and now Syria. Next Jordan, Lebannon etc.
Stupid dumn athiest federal bankers could print a few billion dollars, pay off the taliban (allies against U.S.S.R in the 80's) and everyone lives happily ever after in peace.
Stupid dumn athiest germans hated the jews because they all obeyed the Bible that says that Gods' chosen ones will be persecuted.
Stupid dumn athiests are starting World War 3.

Notice how athiests gladly persecute Christians when they (supposedly) do not believe in the Bible. Dah !!!
What a laugh. Soon athiests are going to wipe themselves off the face of this planet with World War 3. Not for 1 single second did they think 'lets not commit suicide'. Dah !!!

Can you maybe post this near death experiences because have seen a documentary about near death experiences where people actually saw what they believed on Earth. It wac quite interesting.

Basically fi they believed in Jesus as God, they will see Jesus, Im gonna look for it and post it here if you dont mind These an interesting post with many topics and good conversations to come out from! Lets keep it constructive!

Originally posted by kindred
reply to post by arpgme

 

Jesus said, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."

Contradictions in the bible, which make no sense as the event never happened.

Can you elaborate on that for me?

According to Mark, Jesus announced that "The time is at hand; the kingdom of God is drawing near." As Mark describes it, Jesus declared that the end of time is at hand; the world is about to undergo cataclysmic transformation. Jesus predicted war, strife, conflict, and suffering, in Chapter 13, followed by a world-shattering event -- the coming of the kingdom of God. According to Mark 9:1, Jesus expected that event to happen during the life of his own disciples. He said to Peter and James and John, "There are some of you standing here who shall not taste death until you see the kingdom of God come with power."

In Mark 13, Jesus also told them that only the Father knew the day and the hour, and not himself. Jesus only asked that they be continually watching so they didn't miss it.

As for Mark 9:1, if you read the verses prior to this one, you would notice that Jesus is speaking to a crowd of people that included his disciples. Those words were not spoken to only Peter, James and John. What Jesus was telling the crowd was that many of them would not believe that he was the Son of God until his second coming. During the second coming, all will recognize Jesus (the living and the dead in the spirit world). When he says, "shall not taste death", he's talking about the second death after the Great White Throne Judgement.

According to the Gospel of Thomas, then, the "kingdom of God" seems to symbolize a state of transformed consciousness. One enters that "kingdom" when one comes to know oneself. For the secret of gnosis is that when one comes to know oneself, at the deepest level, simultaneously one comes to know God as the source of one's being.

It's obvious where Jesus and Thomas get their beliefs from: Buddhism.

Jesus got his beliefs from God. Jesus told them to look within themselves to find God because the kingdom God created for them hasn't been created yet. They won't be living in the current "Kingdom of God". Only God resides there for now until he sends down the "New Jerusalem" from Heaven. Read Revelation chapter 21 for all of the details on the "New Jerusalem".

i read the bible yesterday
it says clearly in the end of days
young people wil have visions and dreams

reply to post by thebestnr1


There is no end, only new beginnings and we are reaching the age of enlightenment.

reply to post by arpgme
I'm surprised by the large amounts of misconceptions from the Bible that people always bring up. I can name at least 5 different places and examples in the Bible where people went either to heaven or hell, and some even came back. Read people, read

reply to post by arpgme

Solomon noted that the dead have no awareness, nor are they in some other state of consciousness: "For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing . . . for there is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going" (Ecclesiastes:9:5

You asked why people are having near death experiences. I think the answer is in your question. They are "near death". As a Christian I believe that someday Christ will return and raise the dead. How he will do this is not for mere mortals to know. If I was to conjecture I would say that it has something to do with DNA. Is possible to resurrect a person using DNA? If the soul contains all that is us, and is returned to the body created again through DNA, then are we not resurrected? I don't know the answer, and God has chosen to hide this from Man. The reason our reward is so great is that we are asked to believe by faith. All the circumstantial evidence in the Bible is that we sleep at the time of death, and remain in this state until resurrected. I have seen people claim to see the ghost of dead relatives. I do not believe this. I believe that demons may imitate dead relatives. I am not privy to why they would do this, but possibly as a trick to fool the living. I know that I have had some pretty evil relatives that have died. If I seen them as a ghost then I would suspect that all dead, evil and good, live again after death. Some could be fooled into maintaining their evil in live if they believed that they were going to be around after death.

Originally posted by arpgme

So, what is your explaination of this?

Human perception is 100% subjective, and death doesn't change that fact. This can be a strength or it can be a weakness, depending on how knowledgeable the human is that is experiencing the subjective nature of perception. If the human being knows that what it's experiencing is, at best a subjective interpretation of reality, at worst a complete delusion, and most likely a point that sits on the gradient between both extremes, then that human can adjust for whatever it is confronting. If the human being is ignorant of that fact, then it will be vulnerable to the very real impact of its perceptions - literally making perception reality for itself - with no viable escape from that perception.

The people who experience Hell during an NDE are people who viscerally believe that such a place exists, and that also viscerally believe that they likely deserve the fate of eternal damnation - as depicted by traditional monotheistic teachings. For them, that Hell does exist, and will exist once they've left the corporeal realm forever. This is the extreme danger of allowing shortsighted applications of such powerful theological manipulations to persist. It's bad enough that the Heaven/Hell narrative is used to oppress some and elevate others through its artificial - and often arbitrary - pass/fail protocol structure, but the real damage is on the eternal perception of the post-corporeal human being. After death, the human being has literally nothing "concrete" to hang its subjective hat on. No causal infrastructure to lean on for relative contrast. Once death has released the "mind", the fully developed human being is completely freed - or set adrift, depending on how you look at it - with perception the only "real" that exists for it.

It's not surprising that some NDEs experience traditional Hell encounters. Not all people believe that they deserve Heaven, and many of these folks are resolute that their traditional narratives are impenetrably accurate. They'll "defend" their accepted narratives - literally, their only version of what's ultimately real - even if it means eternal suffering. Hopefully, some come around to figuring it out after a while (which could be a very long stretch in even the most successful instances) and free themselves from their cartoon lakes of fire, but you have to accept that there are those who will never find their way out of their personal prisons after transitioning from the material realm. Kinda makes you sad when you consider it, and how this world has promoted such dangerous perception programming as wholesome and vital.

Anyway, they experience it because they expect it - even if that expectation sits deep within their viscera and they've never confronted it consciously.

Originally posted by GmoS719

Originally posted by Gradius Maximus
I would suggest that you stop believing the stories of another, they are manipulated fairy tales.

Through my own direct experience in the spirit world I can attest to much of what these holy books state, but its not as simple as they make it out to be. Language fails to describe the truth of what is and these books are the remnant writings that have been squeezed through 3-4 languages before being read today, meetings of many men were held to edit these writings to remove anything they desired not to be seen.

Do not hold them as absolute for even a single moment, for they are the product of man, not god.

Man knows nothing of god, we drop to our knees in awe and the tiniest scraps of understanding we can muster can only be related to what we already know, the image of our selves, something that would be relevant to us.

There is no hell, there is no heaven - What exists beyond the yawning grave is beyond anything you could possibly imagine.

Its time to stop playing in the card board box my friends,

-GM

Thanks for your opinion on whether Christianity is a fairy tale or not.
Even though no one asked for it.

edit on 2-12-2011 by GmoS719 because: (no reason given)

I'm willing to bet my paycheck you never ask for anything you disagree with.

I think this would be a good question for your to ask your pastor.

I would assume the near death experience is similar to the dreams/visions of revelations, or entirely imagination, I am not sure. Plenty of good discussion (minus the trolls) in this thread though.

Originally posted by arpgme
The Bible says that all souls go to the graveyard and one day Jesus will return and resurrect everyone for judgement...

Those who do not pass judgement will THEN go into the lake of fire (hell)... and NO one has been in heaven except for Jesus until the day of judgement...


So how is it that people are having these Near Death experiences seeing heaven and hell? And why is it that people who see hell does NOT see the devil? How can it be that people who have these Near Death Experiences are told that reincarnation exist?

Before you say it's from Satan, make sure you read your bibles:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." (Gal. 5:22-23)

The Bible says that you can test any spirit to see if it's of God by seeing if it has love, joy, and peace, and this is what ALL that sees heaven explain! Satan can nott be love joy peace even IF he does look like an angel because those are fruits of spirit!

So, what is your explaination of this?

Huge difference between a dream and a vision. What is known as Jacob's ladder was seen from a dream state. What happened to Zechariah when he saw the flying scroll etc was seen from a dream state. The John from Revelation witnessed a vision through the opening of a door. Daniel witnessed visions from the dream state as well as from the waking state (Dan 10:4).

It was during a vision from the waking state that Gabriel told Daniel that 'many will go to and from and knowledge will be increased (NDE's).

Why do people worry so much, about heaven and hell? Why don't you worry about earth, and what you can do for the people on it, to make it a better place. People spend so much time, worrying about the x's and o's of the B.I.B.L.E. that they miss out, on the true PURPOSE of it. So, let me SIMPLIFY it for you by starting with this:

"There is nothing new under the sun." Now, if this is the case...that there is NOTHING NEW on our planet, then EVERYTHING is old...and has been done before. Therefore, the 'stories' that are being told, are the same types of stories, that will play out in each of our lives. For example...people get angry, mad, upset or surprised at the fact that someone, they thought 'loved' them, would screw them over or back-stab them. But, what happened with Jesus? Wasn't HE screwed over, by one of HIS closests disciples??? So then, if it happened to HIM, best believe it WILL happen to each and every person, living under the sun.

Stop being so religious...and start listening to what the people of old, are telling you. Basically, they're telling you how to live a certain way, on this planet, to prevent certain things from happening in your life...and if those bad things DO happen, you'll have the KEYS to victory. It's all about FAITH!

The B.I.B.L.E. is nothing more than a book of people that lived OUTSIDE of the box, in FAITH! FAITH is the key to EVERYTHING! "Without FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please HIM".

People also need to learn God's DIVINE ORDER. Satan RULES this planet, and his workers are carrying out his plans. LOOK AROUND YOU. Look at the leaders of this world. Look at how selfish, greedy, uncaring, they are, about us. Look at what they would do...to keep their wealth and power. The only reason why this is happening is because God CAN'T and WON'T break HIS divine order. That's why HE created us...and when we failed....unveiled HIS backup plan...Christ Jesus.

This is why, one has to be 'born AGAIN"...BY SPIRIT. So that DIVINE ORDER can be re-established, and the believer will have DOMINION over TPTB...once he/she is seated IN Christ.

Here's the Divine Order without Christ:
Father
Son
Holy Spirit
Angels
Man
Notice that "Angels" are seated above man....lawfully ALLOWED to do whatever, whenever it so chooses. Satan/the Devil.....IS STILL AN ANGEL...and has all power and dominion over mankind.

Here's the Divine Order with Christ
Father
Son w/man
Holy Spirit
Angels
Man w/o Christ

Once a person becomes "born again" the Father ADOPTS the believer through HIS SON...giving HIS new son/daughter the same POWER and AUTHORITY HIS Son (Christ Jesus) has. Once this transformation happens completely.....WWIII will begin. The next world war...will be a 'spiritual' one. And, for those of you that think God, is a "passive", "weak" God, THINK AGAIN. There is a time and a season for EVERYTHING. And soon, the time will come, where peace ends and war begins. God is giving EVERY man the opportunity to know HIM. No one is special, nor are they favorites, in HIS eyes. We are ALL HIS children!

Also, let me just state this...Christians need to stop walking around, blaring their horns, as if they have some kind of 'favor' from God because they are 'Christians'. YOU....ARE....NOT....SPECIAL!!! God loves the Muslim...just as much...He is "no respector of persons". Read your...no...STUDY your B.I.B.L.E. more thoroughly..you're a wee bit confused. God aint lookin' for "Christians"...HE'S looking for warriors that will do HIS WILL!!!!! What is HIS will??? Love your neighbor, and get over yourself!!!!

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by GmoS719

 

"No one has gone to heaven except the Son of Man, who came from heaven." - John 3:13

The Son of Man [Jesus] will return the world will be judged and those from the graveyard who are unworthy will be thrown into the lake of fire and the righteous WILL go to heaven to worship God for all eternity as per "The Book of Revelations".

Luke 23:43
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Who do you pray to, John or Jesus
John is saying Jesus is a liar...
So, side up then....they are completely opposite statements. Christ is at least with one other (the thief) in heaven, or he is a liar and only he is in heaven as john states.

Ahh, the infallable book of man...all we have to do is remove what that jesus guy said and its all sorted...


-agnostic atheist, just keeping things straight according to this mythos-

reply to post by arpgme

First of all, I don't believe in such amazing stories that tell of a magical man that is GOD incarnate that will raise ALL people from the dead that ever lived and open the gates of heaven for those who are good and damn the rest for all eternity.

When people die, they move on to something else. Either another life or maybe some other type of consciousness/dimension whatever, the possibilities are endless. Maybe positive NDEs are just glimpses of the place we go in between lives and different levels of consciousness, I guess you could call it home-base. But maybe some don't deserve to see home-base because they've lived negative/bad/evil lives (no rest), so they're immediately tossed into another life or some type of purgatory that may be totally awful according to how the person lived their life, which would explain the negative NDEs. The bible kinda talks about this stuff, well the old testament does anyway. I believe KARMA plays a big role in existence on many different levels so the way we live determines what happens to you (your soul [sole]) after you die.

And I think the reason people don't see, what you call "Satan" (Santa???), or the Devil is because I think that you are your own Devil. Crazy as it sounds, you as an individual have the ability to do a lot of good, a lot of bad, or a mixture of both, but when you're doing more bad, it's YOUR actions that are condemning you, not Satan. When people talk about their demons, they're mostly referring to their own bad habits or actions. So yea, you are your own Devil IMO.

Perhaps they were brain washed into the belife that hell exsited in the first place?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Magnum007

 

Q. What is so ironic about atheists?
A. They’re always talking about God.

Q. Why believe what an atheist says?
A. You don't, because they don't believe in anything.

Q. What created the universe?
A. A big bang.
Q. Wouldn't that make you an accident?
A. My brain hasn't evolved enough to think about it.

We always talk about how "god" doesn't and can't exist because of the many contradictions that exist when the idea of the existence a supreme being is put forth.

We don't believe in nothing, we believe that the religious nuts are wrong...

and yes, in fact I am a culmination of many accidents which caused me to exist... plain and simple... there is nothing wrong with your brain, only the way you use it...

Not all Christian demoninations believe that when we die we lay in the ground, until Jesus comes. Some believe we die and go up to heaven and then we're judged.
My belief is: we all go to heaven, we reincarnation and that NDE is real! We as spiritual beings, living this human experience must learn to love and learn lessons, so we don't have to incarnate on earth again. I think people who have a NDE and experience hell, are people(spiritual beings) who needed to be scared straight. They must not have been very nice people and they seem to turn their lives around after the experience. We have lots of help on the otherside to help us.

reply to post by arpgme


The brain plays funny tricks on people when its shutting down, there is no heaven no hell, no god and no Satan, you have been programmed since birth by your parents and communities to believe in this because it is the social standards of the people in your environment, had you been born anywhere else in the world you would be questioning the same thing from the Quran or the torah, or many of the other occult books from different regions of the world.

Some day man will be free of the chains of the occult, but I’ll tell you that you and I will be gone long before that happens and man will be held back millennia before we see this great change that will free us from our elite masters who use any means of control to divide and conquer us.While we debate the fiction in these books they make plans behind closed doors to for the next great attack against peoples or nations for their greedy means.