Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

reply to post by gate13


Wrong there is no good evidence (that I have seen) showing me that the creationist are right but plenty that show me that evolution is correct.
The difference is scientific study and how scientists try to prove their findings. Creationist's try to prove everything by quoting the bible.
Unless you want to show me otherwise.
Unlike yourself I don't have faith in Jesus because even if he existed the only "proof" he is the son of god is from a book written by man.
Also If Jesus came back and stood in front of me the last thing he would do is kick me in the balls.

Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by stevcolx

Originally posted by colbe
This is a good thread for this message. If you doubt now, just remember
what is written and do as Our Lord directs, okay?

Religion is and always has been a method of controlling the human psyche. It was made up a few thousand years ago based on Sun Worship.

What is written as Colbe states was written by man, in fact many men and women wrote the bible and all the other copies such as the qur'an later on.

So as u say 'What is written and do as our lord directs' is basically a command. You do as you are told or you will go to the non existent hell!!

It's all symbolic crap. Unfortunately alot of people still believe all that rubbish. Old Testament Crap!! Written by people that wanted to control people and still control people!!

Hi steve, I have a brother named steve,

Religion is not controlling, example, you don't believe. God has given
you free will.

love,

colbe

Aaaaah Colbe, you brought up my favorite debate. before I go on, lemme say that i am a Christian with beliefs not only made from the bible but from the other gospels and books as well as the accounts of Yeshua in India (where the "wise men" visited him as a toddler and not the night he was born as the myth goes), England and even Tibet (Issa).

You said that God gives us "free will" . However, most people will also say "it's all part of God's plan". Well, which is it? They can't have it both ways. I personally believe that "God's plan" already includes your "free will". Therefore the idea of free will is an illusion. If it is all God's plan, God already knows what you will choose and has planned for it. This is my problem with the church. They want it both ways and cant have it both ways.
Any thoughts?

reply to post by PurpleSun

TextYou said that God gives us "free will" . However, most people will also say "it's all part of God's plan". Well, which is it? They can't have it both ways. I personally believe that "God's plan" already includes your "free will". Therefore the idea of free will is an illusion. If it is all God's plan, God already knows what you will choose and has planned for it. This is my problem with the church. They want it both ways and cant have it both ways.

God does know the end from the beginning and yes we do have free will as part of His plan just not all of us . Let me explain because it is a tad complicated . This earth age we are living in is a stage were God is giving some of us a chance of redemption for their sin of following Satan in his uprising in the first earth age , 1/3 of us did this.

Many of us in the first earth age fought against Satan and his rebellion and these are Gods elect in this earth age . The elect for the most part have free will but God guides them and places them were he needs them to accomplish his will. So to answer your question.......Yes , God has a plan and we have free will except for occasional intervention of the elect to do the will Of God . E elect are few in number in regards to the population.

This is we're we get the term in the bible the first (elect ) will be last (born on the last days) and the last will be first , the first to serve Gd in the next earth age .

Religion is a crutch for the weak . Religion is a gun for the fanatics . Religion is forced and indoctrinated in order to survive.
How many of you Christians have done what Jesus said you must do to follow him , ie , given away every single asset , quit your job and wander around the worlderness attesting his name ? Absolutely none of you !!

You all like to be seen to be a believer , but not one of you can take that final step

EDIT oh and for the record , Paganism is far older than christianity !

Originally posted by Azadok
reply to post by PurpleSun

 

TextYou said that God gives us "free will" . However, most people will also say "it's all part of God's plan". Well, which is it? They can't have it both ways. I personally believe that "God's plan" already includes your "free will". Therefore the idea of free will is an illusion. If it is all God's plan, God already knows what you will choose and has planned for it. This is my problem with the church. They want it both ways and cant have it both ways.

God does know the end from the beginning and yes we do have free will as part of His plan just not all of us . Let me explain because it is a tad complicated . This earth age we are living in is a stage were God is giving some of us a chance of redemption for their sin of following Satan in his uprising in the first earth age , 1/3 of us did this.

Many of us in the first earth age fought against Satan and his rebellion and these are Gods elect in this earth age . The elect for the most part have free will but God guides them and places them were he needs them to accomplish his will. So to answer your question.......Yes , God has a plan and we have free will except for occasional intervention of the elect to do the will Of God . E elect are few in number in regards to the population.

This is we're we get the term in the bible the first (elect ) will be last (born on the last days) and the last will be first , the first to serve Gd in the next earth age .

that's a good interpretation. i'm not sure i agree with.

reply to post by dawnprince


For the record, Yeshua never said to give up every single asset to follow him. I'm not perfect. Far from it. And that's ok. And I think it's on the record that paganism has been around longer than Christianity and common knowledge that Christianity took many of it's beliefs from Egyptian and Sumarian beliefs.

Originally posted by dawnprince
Religion is a crutch for the weak . Religion is a gun for the fanatics . Religion is forced and indoctrinated in order to survive.
How many of you Christians have done what Jesus said you must do to follow him , ie , given away every single asset , quit your job and wander around the worlderness attesting his name ? Absolutely none of you !!

You all like to be seen to be a believer , but not one of you can take that final step

EDIT oh and for the record , Paganism is far older than christianity !

edit on 16-3-2012 by dawnprince because: (no reason given)

The weak really , I could snap your neck like a twig but because I am strong in my faith I don't commit acts of violence , that does not exclude me from protecting myself and my interests if need be .


And there is no need to wander the world to do the work of Christ when a couple taps of the keyboard reaches more than any other way of spreading the gospel . This being said there are thousands of Christians right now all over the world helping the poor and needy while spreading the word . You are simply a hypocrite that hates the idea of God so you spew the filth out of your mouth like you have wisdom to change the faith of a believer . I pity people like yourself so full of hate that you can't contain it within so you must attack others for no reason but to release your misery.

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by arpgme

 

Funny, I thought Jesus was (according to the bible) born on the 25th of December, in a barn, while 3 wise man traveled to his location following a star? This is purely from memory. Its a book I do not read but was unfortunately forced to attend catholic schools

Well, to be technical, it was a cave "grotto". Look at this painting by DaVinci. Virgin of the Rocks. Zoom in on the blanket and look at the shape. What do you see?


en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by boymonkey74


I know it's off topic from the OP but I thought I would comment on the proof/evidence for evolution. I know there is more than what I present here, but at least here are a few things worth mention.

Lucy the famous Australopithecus afarensis skeleton that was heralded as the missing link between humans and their primitive origins has been shown to be its own unique species (a "southern ape") with features that do not resemble either humans nor the species of apes that humans are claimed to have evolved from. The Australopithecus are their own type of animal, if they existed at all. The "Lucy" skeleton was only 20% complete (The 40% numbers come from a "half skeleton" way of counting bones, where duplicate bones are not included) with no hand or feet bones which Johanson also left out of his percentage calculations since hands and feet are so rare to find. Even at only 20% complete she is still the most complete fossil of her kind. Richard Leaky, another famous fossil anthropologist, said that there is so little left of the skull that it is virtually impossible to identify the species of the fossil, yet National Geographic has completely recreated her face from scratch to make it look like what they want it to look like, a mix between man and ape.

The Nebraska Man (Hesperopithecus haroldcookii), called the "ape of the Western world" was used as evidence of evolution based off of the discovery of a single tooth, nothing else (it's said that the scientific world never claimed the tooth as proving man's evolution, but they DID consider it to be an evolved/advanced ape of some sort). Later, additional bones were found belonging to that fossil and they turned out to belong to an extinct species that highly resembled... wait for it... pigs. This of course happened a long time ago (1920's-....) but it sets the stage for just how scientific these scientists are in presenting "proof" of evolution.

Even more famous is Piltdown man (Eoanthropus dawsoni) who was discovered in 1912. It was claimed to be the skull of one of those intermediate stages between ape and human but it turned out to be the skull of a modern day man with the jaw of a modern day orangutan attached. It took the scientific community 40 years to finally release the news that it had been a hoax. What I'm unsure of is whether it took them 40 years to figure out it was a fake or if it took 40 years for them to admit their huge mistake/hoax.

Neanderthals are now considered to pretty much be humans that suffered from severe arthritis and rickets.

"Orce man: Found in the southern Spanish town of Orce in 1982, and hailed as the oldest fossilized human remains ever found in Europe. One year later officials admitted the skull fragment was not human but probably came from a 4 month old donkey. Scientists had said the skull belonged to a 17 year old man who lived 900,000 to 1.6 million years ago, and even had very detail drawings done to represent what he would have looked like."(source: "Skull fragment may not be human", Knoxville News-Sentinel, 1983. Copied from nwcreation.net)

Sir Arthur Keith, the paleontologist who wrote the forward to the 100th anniversary edition of Darwin's "Origin of Species" said that "Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation and that is unthinkable." darwin's work shows that he was both a sexist and a racist btw.

So pretty much, evolution is a theory that has been flawed from the start but is accepted simply because it denies God. anything so long as God isn't involved.

Science uses the above types of examples to "prove" the evolution of man. Considering the options, Christians consider it more logical that an all-powerful God exists and created the universe as it is.

reply to post by dawnprince


Christ demanded of a a few, specific people to sell all the had and literally follow in his footsteps, ie. travel with him. The early Christians recorded in the Bible still had property and even sold some of it to help each other out when the need arose. Jesus did not demand that every one of his disciples (Christians) sell all they have and give it to the poor. in fact, Jesus had people following him that were providing for his needs and the needs of his disciples out of their own wealth.

I'm not really sure what you mean by a "crutch for the weak." Care to explain?

Paganism existed before the church was established to follow Jesus, but the Jews looked forward to the coming Messiah (Jesus) for a very long time, long before the ancient mystery religions showed up. In fact, I suggest you read a book, "The Gospel and the Greeks" by Nash and then decide if Christianity was a rehash of those mystery religions. It's been proven decade after decade that it is not, yet for some reason professors still promote the falsehood in schools and universities. Probably because they have an anti-Christian agenda and have to resort to lies to prove their points.

Originally posted by Mykahel
reply to post by dawnprince

 

Christ demanded of a a few, specific people to sell all the had and literally follow in his footsteps, ie. travel with him. The early Christians recorded in the Bible still had property and even sold some of it to help each other out when the need arose. Jesus did not demand that every one of his disciples (Christians) sell all they have and give it to the poor. in fact, Jesus had people following him that were providing for his needs and the needs of his disciples out of their own wealth.

Exactly. He told his disciples to drop what they had to follow Him, not every believer. Not to mention that Yeshua was a wealthy man - unlike the misconception. The texts reveal to us that Judas was his treasurer. He was given Gold in India. He had enough money to travel to most of the known world. Not only that, his family was wealthy and his uncle had a trade business which helped him to travel the world.

I just wanted to throw this link to this thread, www.abovetopsecret.com... into this thread, because they tie together.

Please, for the love of God, enough with the Zeitgeist fooey! I pray for all souls who buy into the Zeitgeist disinformation, Satan sure has tricked a lot of poor souls. Jesus help us!

Originally posted by Azadok

Originally posted by dawnprince
Religion is a crutch for the weak . Religion is a gun for the fanatics . Religion is forced and indoctrinated in order to survive.
How many of you Christians have done what Jesus said you must do to follow him , ie , given away every single asset , quit your job and wander around the worlderness attesting his name ? Absolutely none of you !!

You all like to be seen to be a believer , but not one of you can take that final step

EDIT oh and for the record , Paganism is far older than christianity !

edit on 16-3-2012 by dawnprince because: (no reason given)

The weak really , I could snap your neck like a twig but because I am strong in my faith I don't commit acts of violence , that does not exclude me from protecting myself and my interests if need be .


And there is no need to wander the world to do the work of Christ when a couple taps of the keyboard reaches more than any other way of spreading the gospel . This being said there are thousands of Christians right now all over the world helping the poor and needy while spreading the word . You are simply a hypocrite that hates the idea of God so you spew the filth out of your mouth like you have wisdom to change the faith of a believer . I pity people like yourself so full of hate that you can't contain it within so you must attack others for no reason but to release your misery.

edit on 16-3-2012 by Azadok because: (no reason given)

I doubt very much you could snap my neck , but how very christian of you to resort to threats of violence to protect your delusion .
History reeks of people like you .

Jesus is a myth perpetuated by the catholic church .
I don't need an imaginary friend to help me through the bad times in my life . I just get on with it .

reply to post by dagon


Seriously! This thread was quite a while ago but that's okay we'll just go ahead and resurrect it. Lol. Anyway I'm not the expert religion guru but I can tell you that as many non-christians celebrate "Christmas" as christians. Maybe you can ask them or store owners. My best guess is that it costs more money to buy people gifts than it does to buy them chocolate bunnies. As for the rest of your questions, I really don't know. Perhaps you should contact a priest or a minister. Best of luck!

reply to post by arpgme


great post bro. like iv said before there is an agenda by so called "truth" seekers like David ike, Michael tsarion, Jordan maxwell,and a few others.their method is the give you a 2/3 of accurate historical facts than the last one third are all lies and word play-mostly against Christianity. if i recall jordan maxwell claimed that the Hebrews in ancient Egypt first worshiped ISis than amun-RA, and than ELohim. and supposedly thats where they got IS-RA-EL. how is this possible if the Hebrews and Egyptians did not integrate. the Egyptians would not even eat in the same table with any foreigners.(Herodotus the histories)- not to mention the ancient Egyptian pronunciations for isis and ra are not how we say them today.

s&f

can i have your comment here.www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by dawnprince


Jesus is a myth perpetuated by the catholic church .
I don't need an imaginary friend to help me through the bad times in my life . I just get on with it .

You do realize that secular sources speak of Jesus, such as the Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus (56-117 AD), who wrote long before the Catholic church had risen up to replace the church as was established by Jesus and his apostles. Jewish sources like Josephus also mention him. The important part of all this is that both the Romans and Jews would have preferred that Jesus never existed, it would have solved a lot of their problems. so the fact that they do speak of him proves his existence. (Positive attestation from negative parties provide about the best sources you can come upon)

And so you can get through the tough times all by yourself? Congratulations. If by finding comfort that my God will deliver ultimate justice in the end makes me weak than I boast in that weakness, because the strength I get from that crutch is enough to endure far worse things than you'd be able to stand up under on your own. Hopefully when you do realize that you can't make it on your own you turn to God and not the bottle, pills, or any other number of "escapes" that so many of you strong types often run to. Not that I'm accusing you of such, I just hope that's not the case.

Really it doesn't matter if there was a man going around at some point claiming to be the son of god.

Even if we had 100% irrefutable evidence of his existence it still wouldn't prove that he was the son of god.

Personally I'm 100% sure that through out the ages there have been many people claiming exactly that and NONE of them have been proven to actually be the son of god.

ETA In fact its never even been proven that there is a god to be the son of.

I just love how times change. There were many people in History claiming to be the Son of God and the messiah of their cultures. The story of Yeshua is one of many. What I find ironic and funny is how all of this was normal 2,000 years ago and if someone did it today or claimed that they talked to God we would lock them in a mental ward.

reply to post by PurpleSun


People still do it today, they are the ones starting up cults and such. Actually, I should restate that...

People aren't typically claiming to be the son of God, but a lot of people claim to be God's chosen prophet to restore people to true faith. This is almost always the case with cults as they spring up.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by gate13

 

Wrong there is no good evidence (that I have seen) showing me that the creationist are right but plenty that show me that evolution is correct.
The difference is scientific study and how scientists try to prove their findings. Creationist's try to prove everything by quoting the bible.
Unless you want to show me otherwise.
Unlike yourself I don't have faith in Jesus because even if he existed the only "proof" he is the son of god is from a book written by man.
Also If Jesus came back and stood in front of me the last thing he would do is kick me in the balls.

edit on 16-3-2012 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

Or send you to Hell, either. I too have vainly looked for proof of a saviour, some supernatural being that would be willing to come save my sorry butt, but, sadly, even though a few million believe he is a real, living being, I simply cannot find even one shred of evidence, records, journals...even the Historians of the day did not write a word about him! So where does that leave someone who searches out these truths? I guess that is why I was told as a child in church that all books were inspired by Satan, and not to read into anything that would "jeopardise my Soul."

Personally, boymonkey74, I think if he did exist, and if he did come down here, like they say he will, he would certainly have a strong case against his followers.... for genocide, fraud, and a host of other crimes committed in the name of their God.