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Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

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posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Lead on, I'll follow.





posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


It transcends the mere mortal human being, it speaks into us and gives us a glimpse of the divine, which we all want to connect to.



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by LunaKat
 



I read Conversations with God years back. I think after it first came out. What I did like about the book is that it does show we can all talk to God (or Goddess or the Divine) ourselves and get our own answers. And I think he succeeds at showing people everyone can do that.


I read those books too! What a writer! Neale Donald Walsch really laid it on the line in those books. The man also starred in a movie, in case you are interested in these things:
Indigo: A Film Of Faith, Family & An Extraordinary Child

I know there are some in here that damn to hell anyone who says anything about Indigos, it seems the word itself is bad. But the little girl in the film will touch your heart. See it if you can.


I am deffinitly going to watch this movie soon. His works changed my whole outlook on God sprituality and religion.
edit on 15-12-2011 by Grimpachi because: changed



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by LunaKat
 



I read Conversations with God years back. I think after it first came out. What I did like about the book is that it does show we can all talk to God (or Goddess or the Divine) ourselves and get our own answers. And I think he succeeds at showing people everyone can do that.


I read those books too! What a writer! Neale Donald Walsch really laid it on the line in those books. The man also starred in a movie, in case you are interested in these things:
Indigo: A Film Of Faith, Family & An Extraordinary Child

I know there are some in here that damn to hell anyone who says anything about Indigos, it seems the word itself is bad. But the little girl in the film will touch your heart. See it if you can.


Thanks I didn't know about that movie. I will watch it soon. I guess you missed my other post but its fine I didn't direct it to anyone to draw attention. I have read all three of Neale's books and that is about as far into religion as I will ever go. I like how he says we are all God one spirit or soul unbound by time (because it does not exist) and our only goal in life is to experience and remember ect, ect, there is no good nor evil just what we choose. His explanation of things made more sense to me than anything I have ever read or heard. I wish more people would read his works and who knows maybe god did speak to him but even he has doubts. It is like a book of spirituality for those who can't except organized religion with all the double talk and fasehood. I am speaking for myself. If you would could you talk a little more about the 12 or 13 gods that are in the bible. You are the first person who I have ever heard that from. I find it very interesting.

I really apreciate your knoledge on these subjects and your ability to school those in there own religion. I only keep up on this thread to read Lunakat and your posts. I do not even bother reading the posts from the people who only quote bible verses like Colbe they will never see the light because they are to indoctrined and have been taught to never question there faith because it is the non existant devil making them do it. If I am correct the devil didn't exist until the catholic church or maybe that was hell. Oh well that doesn't really matter. You will never convince them otherwise.
edit on 15-12-2011 by Grimpachi because: Spelling



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



I wanted first o know about the 18 Gods and two Goddesses in there. There is only one God, the argued, but I had taken notes, so I began to name them off.
Here is a list if you care to look for yourself:
The Gods Of The Bible



Hi Grimpachi, Is this what you were looking for or talking about? This is a small portion of a post by Autowrench to WarminIndy. The full post is on pg. 37 of the thread. I'm just putting this here till Autowrench sees it for you.

Side Note: I enjoy the Celestine Prophecy books the way you enjoyed Conversations with God. Don't know if you read Celestine Prophecy ones or not?
edit on 15-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 08:44 PM
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I think that we have reached the conclusion from the various responses about our faiths is that the religion of Jesus is not pagan, that there are indeed differences and those differences are vast. The only thing they could have in common on any superficial level is that each faith system is designed to take us toward a divine being.

That is not to say I am calling others wrong, but rather, what I am saying is that we are different. I believe even in the ancient times, people felt the same way. They understood then that Christianity was different than their own faith systems. The Romans were a pantheon and yet their end came during the upswing of Christianity and nothing in their writings indicate they felt it was even compatible with the Roman pantheon.

The separation of Judaism and Christianity came about after Antiochus Epiphanes sacked Jerusalem and burned a pig on the altar of the temple of Jerusalem, in the name of Saturnalia. And we know from historical references that are extra-Biblical, that the Romans did understand the religions were different, and that Christianity and Judaism were a threat to the Roman pantheonism. They never indicated they felt the religions were the same. The Greeks also held a pantheon, and many gods and goddesses from each culture and empire were the same, just with different names and there are several references in the Bible that mention different gods and goddesses that were worshiped by the Greeks, but those Greeks made it very clear it was different as well.

The Romans and Greeks both held empires that extended into countries that were far from their own capitols. They had wars with Celts of Europe and the Gauls and various Germanic tribes and even though they did not incorporate those religious viewpoints into their system, they never discouraged those systems. I think history is very clear that the Romans did not wage religious wars with those people, they simply were expanding their empire and did it in a horrific way. But the wars of religion were waged against Jews and Christians.

It all changed in 70 AD, during the sacking of Jerusalem. The Jews were forced out, but yet we know the story of the Maccabean Revolt and the mass suicide at Masada. I think it is evident from history that they recognized that Christianity did not have pagan roots, because Christianity and Judaism have the same roots.

There were Christians who wanted to convert the pagans and incorporated certain aspects of paganism into the worship, and over time it became accepted and even believed as part of Christianity. If we unravel the several thousand years of history, we would be back in a time when life was hard, death was always imminent and in order to protect ones community, they had to fight to survive.

The saddest part of Christian history is when the so-called church fathers spoke against the Jews in such a vile manner, that even to this day people believe the lies against the Jews. Those church fathers were part of the beginning of the Catholic church, and the men found they had some kind of authority and power that should not have been granted them in the first place. But there was always a smaller portion of Christians who did not follow the Roman tradition and opposed the Roman church. Those are the ones who represent true Christianity because it has not denied the Jews and has believed that evangelism should be done gracefully and mercifully and above all, lovingly.

To answer the OP, in my opinion, history proves that Christianity and paganism are two complete and different faith worldviews. The parts of paganism borrowed into Christianity belong to the Roman tradition, and not all of Christendom follows the Roman tradition.

BTW, an interesting side note, I have been called Jezebel by some very "loving" Christian people and some have even called me a psychic, so I suppose that if I lived several hundred years ago, I would have been called a witch..



posted on Dec, 15 2011 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
I think that we have reached the conclusion from the various responses about our faiths is that the religion of Jesus is not pagan, that there are indeed differences and those differences are vast. The only thing they could have in common on any superficial level is that each faith system is designed to take us toward a divine being.



Hi WarminIndy, you know I love your posts but I don't walk away with this same feeling from the thread that you have. I didn't come to that conclusion. To me, Jesus is still pretty much myth and I do feel that its base is earlier religions. I also feel that to Jewish people Christianity must look pagan. So I may be the lone holdout here but I just didn't come to those same conclusions.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
I think that we have reached the conclusion from the various responses about our faiths is that the religion of Jesus is not pagan, that there are indeed differences and those differences are vast. The only thing they could have in common on any superficial level is that each faith system is designed to take us toward a divine being.

:


I would have to say that you are incorrect in your conclusion. There has been more than enough evidence provided that brings me to the conclusion that Jesus was a pagan ripoff. If the man even existed then he was just a man. My conclusion is that he brought the teachings from the eastern civilizations. The differences on the pagan stories and his are very similar. I am not surprised at all at your statement it is typical of most Christians to ignore anything that goes against their faith, it is after all what you are told to do by the church. Facts, science, and history generally speaking will not persuade a Christian to reevaluate their beliefs.

The only thing that I really have against Christianity is that it seems to be more about controling the masses than helping them and in many cases separating them from their money. There is a good message but unfortunately it has mostly been lost.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



I wanted first o know about the 18 Gods and two Goddesses in there. There is only one God, the argued, but I had taken notes, so I began to name them off.
Here is a list if you care to look for yourself:
The Gods Of The Bible



Thank you LunaKat, there are so many pages on this thread I am not surprised that I missed that post. It is late here right now so I will be reading that tomorrow.

Hi Grimpachi, Is this what you were looking for or talking about? This is a small portion of a post by Autowrench to WarminIndy. The full post is on pg. 37 of the thread. I'm just putting this here till Autowrench sees it for you.

Side Note: I enjoy the Celestine Prophecy books the way you enjoyed Conversations with God. Don't know if you read Celestine Prophecy ones or not?
edit on 15-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 02:45 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


GOD bless you for your post



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 


I must have missed something in my last post anyways thank you for the reference you have made me interested. It seems I have a lot of reading to do.
That is not one of my strong points but I will do my best.

On a different note I am curious about the healing that you and Autowrench have been talking about. It is something that I would like to talk to him about in a form that's not so public. I would like to see it firsthand possibly one day. Perhaps I may even participate because I was injured five years ago and next week will be my 14 surgery. I wonder if it could help me. That is as far as I want to go into it right now.

Thank you very much for your correspondence.
edit on 16-12-2011 by Grimpachi because: I added additional text.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy
I think that we have reached the conclusion from the various responses about our faiths is that the religion of Jesus is not pagan, that there are indeed differences and those differences are vast. The only thing they could have in common on any superficial level is that each faith system is designed to take us toward a divine being.

That is not to say I am calling others wrong, but rather, what I am saying is that we are different. I believe even in the ancient times, people felt the same way. They understood then that Christianity was different than their own faith systems. The Romans were a pantheon and yet their end came during the upswing of Christianity and nothing in their writings indicate they felt it was even compatible with the Roman pantheon.

The separation of Judaism and Christianity came about after Antiochus Epiphanes sacked Jerusalem and burned a pig on the altar of the temple of Jerusalem, in the name of Saturnalia. And we know from historical references that are extra-Biblical, that the Romans did understand the religions were different, and that Christianity and Judaism were a threat to the Roman pantheonism. They never indicated they felt the religions were the same. The Greeks also held a pantheon, and many gods and goddesses from each culture and empire were the same, just with different names and there are several references in the Bible that mention different gods and goddesses that were worshiped by the Greeks, but those Greeks made it very clear it was different as well.

The Romans and Greeks both held empires that extended into countries that were far from their own capitols. They had wars with Celts of Europe and the Gauls and various Germanic tribes and even though they did not incorporate those religious viewpoints into their system, they never discouraged those systems. I think history is very clear that the Romans did not wage religious wars with those people, they simply were expanding their empire and did it in a horrific way. But the wars of religion were waged against Jews and Christians.

It all changed in 70 AD, during the sacking of Jerusalem. The Jews were forced out, but yet we know the story of the Maccabean Revolt and the mass suicide at Masada. I think it is evident from history that they recognized that Christianity did not have pagan roots, because Christianity and Judaism have the same roots.

There were Christians who wanted to convert the pagans and incorporated certain aspects of paganism into the worship, and over time it became accepted and even believed as part of Christianity. If we unravel the several thousand years of history, we would be back in a time when life was hard, death was always imminent and in order to protect ones community, they had to fight to survive.

The saddest part of Christian history is when the so-called church fathers spoke against the Jews in such a vile manner, that even to this day people believe the lies against the Jews. Those church fathers were part of the beginning of the Catholic church, and the men found they had some kind of authority and power that should not have been granted them in the first place. But there was always a smaller portion of Christians who did not follow the Roman tradition and opposed the Roman church. Those are the ones who represent true Christianity because it has not denied the Jews and has believed that evangelism should be done gracefully and mercifully and above all, lovingly.

To answer the OP, in my opinion, history proves that Christianity and paganism are two complete and different faith worldviews. The parts of paganism borrowed into Christianity belong to the Roman tradition, and not all of Christendom follows the Roman tradition.

BTW, an interesting side note, I have been called Jezebel by some very "loving" Christian people and some have even called me a psychic, so I suppose that if I lived several hundred years ago, I would have been called a witch..


Warminindy,

Why are you anti-Catholic? How unChristian.

Never, never listen an anti-Catholic speak of Church history or her teachings.

It's obvious why, their upbringing, they look as far as nearest anti-Catholic book
or website. Ask a Catholic, not a fallen away Catholic or a sometime Catholic.

Mocking the true faith again Indy? Gotta get another dig in there. Many of the the Apostles, the first priests in the New Covenant were Jewish. The Church Fathers, you fail to say for obvious reasons were Roman Catholic. They truly loved the Jewish people, remember, Our Lord was Jewish.

You are part of the Protestant revolt. I didn't know Pentecostals had such bitterness towards the true faith. Fact...everything you know of Christ came
from the Catholic Church.

colbe



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Here is a list of heresies

t has happened throughout history. Man always wants to shun authority, the first man shunning God's authority and the sects shunning the authority handed down from Jesus and the apostles.

If the catholic church has no authority, why do they accept the bible as infallible? It was compiled together by catholics.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by WarminIndy
I think that we have reached the conclusion from the various responses about our faiths is that the religion of Jesus is not pagan, that there are indeed differences and those differences are vast. The only thing they could have in common on any superficial level is that each faith system is designed to take us toward a divine being.



Hi WarminIndy, you know I love your posts but I don't walk away with this same feeling from the thread that you have. I didn't come to that conclusion. To me, Jesus is still pretty much myth and I do feel that its base is earlier religions. I also feel that to Jewish people Christianity must look pagan. So I may be the lone holdout here but I just didn't come to those same conclusions.


It's ok Lunakat, I am sure that we will always have different views about religion. I didn't want to imply one was better than the other, just that they are different. I was going on the concept of conversion, the wording is unique to monotheistic religions. People convert to Christianity, Judaism and Islam. There are processes one goes through to convert. That was only what I was trying to say.

Please don't think this was in any way trying to be detrimental, because that was not my intent. And I suppose from your point of view, it could be seen as pagan. Yes, to the Jews we do seem pagan, as Christians,especially Catholics, are seen by Muslims. I think we should not use the word pagan, it leads to negative stereotypes for some people.

I know that in all religions, there is an idea that one receives wisdom and knowledge through their respective deity or force and all religions teach enlightenment. Some Jewish people practice Kabbala, but that seems to be only a form within Judaism and many people who are not Jewish practice that form. I just think to say pagan is too broad. When one says they worship as you do, you say you are Dianic, and that defines it more than the term pagan.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by LunaKat
 


I must have missed something in my last post anyways thank you for the reference you have made me interested. It seems I have a lot of reading to do.
That is not one of my strong points but I will do my best.

On a different note I am curious about the healing that you and Autowrench have been talking about. It is something that I would like to talk to him about in a form that's not so public. I would like to see it firsthand possibly one day. Perhaps I may even participate because I was injured five years ago and next week will be my 14 surgery. I wonder if it could help me. That is as far as I want to go into it right now.

Thank you very much for your correspondence.
edit on 16-12-2011 by Grimpachi because: I added additional text.


Morning Grimpachi
I sent you a private message. Hopefully it worked --first time trying that.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by WarminIndy
I think that we have reached the conclusion from the various responses about our faiths is that the religion of Jesus is not pagan, that there are indeed differences and those differences are vast. The only thing they could have in common on any superficial level is that each faith system is designed to take us toward a divine being.



Hi WarminIndy, you know I love your posts but I don't walk away with this same feeling from the thread that you have. I didn't come to that conclusion. To me, Jesus is still pretty much myth and I do feel that its base is earlier religions. I also feel that to Jewish people Christianity must look pagan. So I may be the lone holdout here but I just didn't come to those same conclusions.


It's ok Lunakat, I am sure that we will always have different views about religion. I didn't want to imply one was better than the other, just that they are different. I was going on the concept of conversion, the wording is unique to monotheistic religions. People convert to Christianity, Judaism and Islam. There are processes one goes through to convert. That was only what I was trying to say.

Please don't think this was in any way trying to be detrimental, because that was not my intent. And I suppose from your point of view, it could be seen as pagan. Yes, to the Jews we do seem pagan, as Christians,especially Catholics, are seen by Muslims. I think we should not use the word pagan, it leads to negative stereotypes for some people.

I know that in all religions, there is an idea that one receives wisdom and knowledge through their respective deity or force and all religions teach enlightenment. Some Jewish people practice Kabbala, but that seems to be only a form within Judaism and many people who are not Jewish practice that form. I just think to say pagan is too broad. When one says they worship as you do, you say you are Dianic, and that defines it more than the term pagan.


Good Morning WarminIndy
I know you have no ill intentions at all. I very much enjoy your posts because I can tell you are heart centered
And I don't want to split hairs. Maybe we're using the word Pagan in different ways. Lets see if this is the case? I'm not inferring that Christianity *is* a Pagan religion...maybe that is what you thought (?) My view is that religion has evolved. And that Christianity sprang out of Paganism.....it took what came before, threw it in the Cauldron, mixed it up, rearranged the elements and themes, gave the Goddesses and Gods new names and sprang forth a new religion.

Pagan is a word used for someone not from a city but more from the country or sometimes a poorer area. Someone who most likely had intimate contact with the land and the spirituality that develops out of working closely with Nature on a day to day basis. I believe that Goddess or God reveals Herself/Himself to us if we allow it. We really don't need a book. If we had no money for books we could still find Goddess/God/Divine. If all any of us ever did was walk in Nature, say through a forest or a garden and just opened our hearts the Divine could touch us...we could sense it. Or if we followed the Moon in the sky and the seasons throughout the year we could sense it. Or if we opened our hearts to the animals when we worked with them we could sense It. The Divine could reveal Itself to us. This is how I believe that spirituality began which later evolved into religions and religions evolved into more and more rules and doctrines and factions/divisons, etc.

Each people in each land did these things in Nature and in their lives and came to develop an idea of the Goddess or God they saw day in and day out as they worked the land, as their children were born, as their elders died. They told stories of it all. I live in the US and Native Americans have many stories about the land I live in. Beautiful stories that in some ways are similar or echo what is told in other parts of the world. The Chinese have beautiful stories of the Goddess Kuan Yin -- a very loving compassionate Goddess and similar to the Christian Mary. We have such a rich rich history from all over the world of how people see God/Goddess/Creation/Creator/Divine/Universe. And here in America because we're a melting pot every people brings its own stories. If I were to speak of the Goddess in Ireland, someone else may say "I'm from Japan and we know the Goddess as...." We now have a rich collection of Goddess stories from around the world. We now see most of her facets.

The Jewish faith came along and it not only focused on male God but it also said there is no other God and all others are false. They are all Pagan! Christianity picked up on that too. The Pagan religions is just anything that doesn't believe in the same God as the Jews and Christians. So sorry Shakti you're out...sorry Isis you're out...sorry Danu you're out. Goodbye thousands of years of belief. Goodbye sacred artifacts, sacred teachings, goodbye temples. We are here to stay.
edit on 16-12-2011 by LunaKat because: dang typos and added an additional thought



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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The God of the Christians and Jews was to be the only God..goodbye everything else. Destroy their material things that can be destroyed, convert the people, if they choose not to convert kill them.

There was a holy war waged.

Pagan is not a negative term. I embrace the word Pagan and Neo-Pagan. I am not saying Christianity is a Pagan religion but that it developed from the roots, shoots and trees of what had come before. The themes are the same, the names of the Gods change. The Goddess is dismissed because she is the most potent and threatening. Woman is evil now. Woman might know the Goddess. We can't have any of that. There is only one God now..convert or die.

It is a shame.

The Goddess is alive make no mistake.
edit on 16-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by WarminIndy
I think that we have reached the conclusion from the various responses about our faiths is that the religion of Jesus is not pagan, that there are indeed differences and those differences are vast. The only thing they could have in common on any superficial level is that each faith system is designed to take us toward a divine being.

:


I would have to say that you are incorrect in your conclusion. There has been more than enough evidence provided that brings me to the conclusion that Jesus was a pagan ripoff. If the man even existed then he was just a man. My conclusion is that he brought the teachings from the eastern civilizations. The differences on the pagan stories and his are very similar. I am not surprised at all at your statement it is typical of most Christians to ignore anything that goes against their faith, it is after all what you are told to do by the church. Facts, science, and history generally speaking will not persuade a Christian to reevaluate their beliefs.

The only thing that I really have against Christianity is that it seems to be more about controling the masses than helping them and in many cases separating them from their money. There is a good message but unfortunately it has mostly been lost.


I can prove from sources that people did indeed view it as different. For instance, Conal Cearnach, who may be an ancestor of LunaKat, but is my ancestor because I am of the old family O'Mordha of Ireland.


Conal Cearnach, a hero of early Ireland, is supposed to have made a journey to Jerusalem, bringing back the faith to Conor Mac Nessa, the Ard Righ - "High King" (the king over all the kings of Ireland, sometimes styled "Imperator Scotorum - Emperor of the Irish") and others, inspiring several Irish to journey to Jerusalem to be baptized. It is fairly obvious, then, that the new religion must have been known of, though not perhaps known, in Ireland at an extremely early date.


Wakeman's Handbook of Irish Antiquities

The Early Celtic Church

And in the legends of Cuchalainn, it appears that the death of Jesus was reported to the legendary hero also known as the Dearg Doom and the Hound of Culainn. But I do understand what LunaKat is referring to, in that in local places, some Christians have incorporated pagan ideas to make them synchronous with each other. But that was those ministers, but not the pagans.

In the Celtic and Druidic views, Jesus was not a Druid and did not worship Jesus as such and did not attempt to reconcile Jesus with Druidism in any way. So the two faith systems are very different.

History of the Celts

I think they recognized the difference,but Ireland was a land of waves of immigration. Even most genealogists will agree that the Irish themselves have descended from Egyptians and Spanish, as well as Nordic invaders. Jesus could not have been a pagan rip-off, if those people then knew the religion of Jesus was different enough to evangelize with, including Conal Cearnach

His legend is in the Ulster Cycles, found now at Trinity University in Dublin. The Ulster Cycles is the history of Ireland.

BTW, there is a very good book called How the Irish Saved Civilization.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


WarminIndy, there is a way to bridge this misunderstanding. I am not saying that I view Jesus to be a Pagan. Not at all. What I am trying to say is that the myth of Jesus is an evolution of earlier myths. And btw, myth is not a bad word -- its a way to express a religious idea to the masses then as now.

Ask yourself if ever in religious history...

Do you think that Jesus was the only offspring of a Divine Parents?
Do you think that Jesus was the only one to have ever suffered?
Do you think that Jesus was the only one to have ever died and come back from death?
Was the Jewish God (which is the Christian God) as well the only one to have ever created anything?
Was Jesus the only one to have compassion on the poor?
Was Jesus the only one to have compassion and offer healing to the sick?
Was Jesus the only one to have cured the sick?
and so on and so on and so on

No Jesus and God the Father of the Jews were not the only ones ever to do this. But at the time of Christ were the only ones to claim they were. It is a false claim. Those themes are very very old. Jesus sprang from Paganism --the myth of Jesus has the same themes, the same claims. Its just a new name, a new mix. And a lot more hatred and rules (sorry but thats true).

There will be more myths. There already was another one. Muhammed sprang out of what went before in Christianity and Judiasm. And no doubt if we don't blow ourselves up, there will be many many more that will speak to each age as it arrives.

Myths need to speak to the people. They require updating every so often. Thats all this is.



posted on Dec, 16 2011 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by LunaKat
The God of the Christians and Jews was to be the only God..goodbye everything else. Destroy their material things that can be destroyed, convert the people, if they choose not to convert kill them.

There was a holy war waged.

Pagan is not a negative term. I embrace the word Pagan and Neo-Pagan. I am not saying Christianity is a Pagan religion but that it developed from the roots, shoots and trees of what had come before. The themes are the same, the names of the Gods change. The Goddess is dismissed because she is the most potent and threatening. Woman is evil now. Woman might know the Goddess. We can't have any of that. There is only one God now..convert or die.

It is a shame. The Goddess is alive make no mistake.
edit on 16-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)


woman is evil now....I am sure there are a lot of men who feel that way...



But seriously, I do understand what you are saying and there are men who have twisted religion to diminish the value of women. We see it every day now in some countries. But I don't know where these people get the idea that God devalues women, He certainly made many laws in treatment of women, that women were to be respected and valued. There were men who are like men today, who believe they have a god-given mandate to mistreat women.

We also forget the times they were living in. In antiquity, most groups of people were warlike and even where Christianity or Judaism were not at, people still slaughtered other people. Asoka of Japan is a great example of that. But what was intended and designed to protect women became twisted and some men decided it was all the fault of women.

The Bible is honorable of women, and it also says how men are to treat their wives. Even the New Testament states that men are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave His life for it. When people read that passage they only look at the part where wives are supposed to be subject, using Sarah as the example. But we also see that Sarah held great influence over Abraham in convincing him to sleep with Hagar. Sarah was never seen as manipulative. And the two wives of Jacob fought each other every day over each others children and offered him their maids to sleep with. Jacob got stuck as the baby daddy to four different women, two of which were his wives.

Solomon is perhaps the greatest womanizer in history. He loved women so much that he followed them into a different religion altogether. I think Solomon was a player, as was Samson. The message here was, don't go chasing the wrong woman. There is one instance I will give, when Jacob and his sons were moving throughout the land, they came to Shekem, and his daughter Dinah was kidnapped and raped by one of the young men of the city. Her brothers came home to hear this and launched a rescue of her. Jacob thought it would be better for her to marry the young man and worked a way out for her to marry him, but her brothers refused it. So they gave the men of Shekem and offer they could not refuse, it was the custom to only married circumcised and so the men of Shekem were. When the men were in their beds for three days, Levi and Simeon went in and killed every man and took their wives and children hostage. This was the world they were living in, violence was commonplace. But they rescued their sister because they felt if she was to marry the young man, it would equate to prostitution.

They say "If it weren't for Eve eating that apple" but the Bible very clearly says the fall of man was the fault of Adam. The Bible no where places any blame on Eve other than she was deceived by a smooth talking cad, the same guy who still slithers around today. They both had to eat the fruit, it kept them equal.

I believe that God created me to be a woman, but still in His image. I also believe God intends for me to be respected and treated well as a woman.




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