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Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

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posted on Dec, 12 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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You are quite welcome. Since that time of my great hurt, I have continued my study on the Christian religion and the Bible, and I have to say, the more I discover, the more I loathe the ones who started this mind control mess. I do love it when JW come to my hose, I always invite them in for a little "discussion." Trouble is, they hardly come around anymore. Now I just try to educate Christians, but that is the hardest job I have ever done. But! Orders and orders.




posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 12:06 AM
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The Bible is very problematic. I try not to jump too much into the Bible because it pulls me away from the Divine (by whatever name anyone calls it including Christians). I have read the entire Bible more than once (it was 30 years ago). I had to read it because I wanted to know what came before Jesus. When I read the Old Testament I was appalled. There really is no other word for my reaction. This? This is the God that Jesus claims as Father? He's horrible. How in the world could anyone get the idea of a loving God if you read the Old Testament. Back up...I was told not to read the Old Testament. A lot of Christians like to dismiss the Old Testament entirely saying Jesus did away with all that. Sorry no can do. Other Christians say only certain people are qualified to interpret the Bible. Baloney, the words are there for any to read and understand. Some Christians even say a woman should only ask her husband about these matters and not speak in church (and there is a biblical reference for that).

I had to pull this off the internet because I no longer keep a copy of the Bible in my home. It is from 1 Corinthians 14:35 (New Testament folks Jesus didn't do away with this..)

"If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

And in further context from 1 Corinthians 14:33-36

"34 Women[a] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."


This is not the path of the heart nor is it a path for women.


edit on 13-12-2011 by LunaKat because: dug up the reference to women showing we are not on equal footing with men in seeking to learn about God according to Christianity

edit on 13-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 


Oh Lunakat, your problem is you lack the requisite faith to properly read the Bible. It only reveals itself to the pure of heart, he who surrenders himself to the divine blah blah blah who am I kidding? It doesn't make any sense because it was conceived by men terrified by lightning. What do the Pagan sun worshippers and the Christian son worshippers have in common? They both believe what some other guy told em instead of opening their minds and having an original thought....



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by Gigatronix
 


Hi Gigatronix, well I still do believe in the Divine Feminine but at the same time I think the Divine is really just energy. The stories have made it easier for us to relate. I don't think humans are really ready to relate to only energy. We need a name, a face somewhat...so we got all these facets left for us by those of every culture that went before.

It becomes original when we apply it. When whatever story we follow or believe has been meaningful and helped us in some way to live better lives.

Some of us need that. Some of us don't. The path of the atheist is just as valid for them.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by LunaKat
 


Great post! I'm in agreement with just about all of it I think.Hopefully my clumsy attempt at being clever didn't send off the wrong vibe.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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There is absolutely no evidence to prove Jesus' existence, and no evidence to refute it. This is the way it was designed to be. Debate all you want, I'm going to get some more popcorn.



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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Thanks Gig
And I agree with you Doc. Its the way its supposed to be. Its the way all religious myths are. That is why they are called Divine Inspiration. Or said to be Divinely Inspired. I don't take those words the way a lot of people do (as literal truth). I take them to be ..read this and you will be inspired.

Popcorn sounds good!



posted on Dec, 13 2011 @ 12:38 PM
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Yes Jesus was real. God does exist. The Bible is the word of God written with the hands of Satan. This is why it must be read with wisdom. One cannot go against the RCC and talk about Moses positively in the same sentence! Moses was the first pope! Thou shalt not kill...except animals and then fling the blood around?FAIL! No idols...except for a gold box(ark) covered with graven images?? FAIL!! First temple-destroyed then Babylonian captivity. Second temple-destroyed. Christ told them it would happen, said hey you're screwing up, mercy NOT sacrifice. Stop worshiping the devil. Build that third temple and you will get what you deserve. Not what you want.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by colbe
 

My bad, I misread the title and though I was in a different thread. The point about sermonizing and constantly quoting bible passages stands though. You can't prove that Jesus isn't a ripoff anymore than anybody can prove that he is. Both sides are using the same exact type of evidence and it falls on it's face in both cases.

edit on 12-12-2011 by Gigatronix because: (no reason given)


Giga, hi, thanks for explaining.

I have yet to hear evidence coming from non-Christians. The Gospel is full of the miracles of Christ and He did many things not contained in the written Word besides. Threre is the testimony to miracles experienced by Christians for 2000 years.

The Wiccans, neo-pagan goddess worshipers, the new agers have shown
zip on anything to prove who they worship is divine? God the Father is spirit
but presents Himself as a man, of course the same for Christ who has a human
nature and is fully God. The same for God the Holy Spirit.

"Goddess" identifies something false. God is not a woman.

Both genders are beloved by God. Women are very special to Him, how about Mary, the holiest person God every created. Paul states "in Church" meaning woman are not to be priests, they can never give a sermon. Where are sermons given? "In Church." We can evangelize. A quote from the Pope Benedict:

"Anyone who had discovered Christ must lead others to Him. A great joy cannot
be kept to oneself. It has to be passed on."



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 06:41 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
Looks like colbe is God's new spokesperson in here. I thought we already had one of those, and that job was all sewed up. No matter how hard you try, friend, many of us know better, have actually read the Bible, and researched it, and know the truth of your little cult. One day you too will know the truth, but I fear it will be too late for you to do anything about it then. This is not a flame, I love you, colbe, and am attempting to educate you. If you choose to run away and plug your ears, that is your choice, and your right, and I myself will fight for that right. May the Goddess bless you, friend



Hey, not true, the underlined but I think it was said with humor. The prophets in these end of times are "God's spokesperson." I am not a prophet but I believe in the messages from Heaven, Catholic and Protestant. God is preparing everyone
for the times and events ahead. Very close, is the Great Warning.

Auto, God didn't give you or me the authority to interpret Scripture. That's a
Protestant heresy. God gave the authority to interpret Scripture to His Church,
the same Church, the RCC, who canonized Scripture. They go together...seeee...
God has one plan, and revealed it through His Church in the New Covenant.

Personal opinion (private interpretation of Scripture) means nothing. Look to history. The Bible didn't fall complete from Heaven. It was compiled in the 4th century by the RCC. It wasn't until the 16TH Century that a few prideful men said 'no.' The Great Warning is going to change the hearts of many who have followed the men who rejected Christ's Church, the RCC.


take care...remember, at the time of the Great Waring,



colbe

Pope Damasus decided the books, guided by God. They haven't changed to
this day. The Canon of the Bible (the official catalogue of inspired books) was officially declared.

All books that were considered for the Cannon, but not included were called Apocrypha, and thus declared not inspired.

362 A.D. Catholic Church's Council of Rome defines the Canon of Holy Scripture.
382 Pope Damasus issues a listing of the present OT and NT Canon of 73 books
383 Saint Jerome translates the Latin Vulgate from Greek & Hebrew
393 Council of Hippo (North Africa) approves the present Canon of 73 books
397 Council of Constantinople produces first bound Bible (the Vulgate: previously, all
were separate books)
397 Council of Carthage (North Africa) approves the same OT and NT canon
405 Pope Saint Innocent I approves the Canon again and closes it (with 73 books)



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by colbe

Originally posted by Gigatronix
reply to post by colbe
 



"Anyone who had discovered Christ must lead others to Him. A great joy cannot
be kept to oneself. It has to be passed on."


Sometimes people think that Christianity is defined by the believers, and in many ways it is, but the message of Christianity has not evolved. Doctrines have, but the fundamental teachings of Christianity has not. There seems to be confusion on what the teachings of Christianity really are, so I will attempt to make it concise:
1:We believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, born of the Virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Ghost.
2:We believe the word of God to be infallible.
3:We believe Jesus came into the world that the world might be saved, and that His coming was prophesied of the old prophets.
4:We believe we are of the new covenant, established with us through Jesus Christ, but not replacing the old covenant with Israel.
5:We believe in His death, burial and resurrection on the third day.
6:We believe in His ascension into heaven 40 days after His resurrection.
7:We believe He intercedes for us today before God as High Priest and advocate.

These are just seven things that we base our belief on, and the reason we use so many verses is in Matthew 20:19-20 "Go ye therefore into all the world, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world". We have a Great Commission.

If we were to finally have time travel and were able to go back 2,000 years, we would find the fundamental teaching about Jesus is exactly the same. That has to say something for staying power, at least. The difference in religions is this though, paganism itself attempts to satisfy the follower for a moment in their life, it is not intended to follow through generations. Hence, one may serve Pan one day, and Dionysius the next, and Loki another day, paganism is not well defined and belief comes and goes depending on where the follower is that day in their life. I have heard pagans, and Wiccans say they worship several things and in several ways. There seems to be no consistency within paganism. And pagans will attempt to define Jesus through the inconsistencies, but Jesus has remained constant. They will say the Bible is full of inconsistencies, and yet we have evidence it is not. The Book of Isaiah is the same in the Torah, the Old Testament, and the Dead Sea Scrolls, word for word.

Paganism does not define who the author of their faith is, they may say they worship Demeter, and yet do not consider the source of their teaching, so how do they answer as the author of their faith, other than a vague description of some deity, that might not be a deity, but there seems to be no consensus of the origin of their deities. In Christianity, we have defined the author of our faith, we have described the moment of His conception, His place of birth, the events surrounding His birth, the real emperors and kings that existed. We have described what happened after He ascended and how the apostles ministered and preached to those people who willingly converted from the pagan religions. There were no religious wars from the apostles, the apostles did not forcibly convert people.

It seems that there were men of the Catholic church who worshiped power, and those men did awful things in the name of the church, but those men were not of the faith, but faith has remained constant for 2,000 years. It is grossly unfair to blame the faith when evil men who did not even have the faith, nor were worshipers of the faith and say all of Christianity is to blame. Christianity itself does not endorse killing in the name of God, nor any other reason, we believe in a life of integrity because it exemplifies what the faith is about, and that is, as Jesus represents man in front of God, we are to represent Jesus as God in front of man.

This is my faith, I hope it maybe helped because it seems people were hurt by people who claimed to be believers. The true Christian message is "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself". As Jesus said, on those two hang all the law and the prophets.

When asking why we use so many verses, it is because as Jesus represents man in front of God, we are to represent Jesus as God in front of man.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by GmoS719
 


Why are you speaking of such certainties when God isnt Proven to exist.


This thread is basically pointless in the fact that these are all STORIES. If anybody has any Tangible Evidence that what the Bible says about Jesus is true then we'll talk.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Hi, it's interesting, you first use the general term of "Christianity" and then go on
and get specific, only to call Roman Catholicism evil. Excuse me sister, why weren't you specific in sharing where your Creed came from? Read history, the
three Creeds are Roman Catholic.

All of humanity, less Our Lord's mother has a fallen nature, it is not only men in Roman Catholicism who have done "awful things." Actually, if you read history, most all of the goodness done in the last 2000 years have been from men who were/are "Roman Catholic."

Warmingindy said:

"It seems that there were men of the Catholic church who worshiped power, and those men did awful things in the name of the church, but those men were not of the faith, but faith has remained constant for 2,000 years. It is grossly unfair to blame the faith when evil men who did not even have the faith, nor were worshipers of the faith and say all of Christianity is to blame."



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by GmoS719
 


Why are you speaking of such certainties when God isnt Proven to exist.


This thread is basically pointless in the fact that these are all STORIES. If anybody has any Tangible Evidence that what the Bible says about Jesus is true then we'll talk.


Except this, the faith has remained constant for 2,000 years. Those people then believe the same fundamental things we do today. We are not basing our faith on an evolved or changed belief, it is the exact same thing. That cannot be said of any science, because science has evolved many times and made to fit the worldview of the person who believes in science. It takes a lot of faith to accept something that changes many times. Christianity may have evolved in doctrines and tenets, but the fundamental teachings have not evolved at all. We don't make Jesus fit into our worldview, we don't change Jesus because it is convenient to do.

So your assumption is that the Bible is mere stories, you would have to be able to provide evidence that it is a story. It is so funny that those people mentioned in the Bible are accepted, except the ones who claim faith in Jesus. People say Moses did not exist, but the Pharaohs did. People say the old prophets did not exist, but Sennacherib, Cyrus, Nebuchadnezzar and Caesar Augustus did.

The "stories" have remain unchanged for 2,000 years. If we accept one part, we have to accept all parts, because some parts have been undeniably proven true. And the Jews have unbroken tradition dating back to Moses, their circumcision has remained constant and if you ask them where it started, everyone will point back and say where it began. They have not relied on oral tradition, as other culture have, they had scribes who wrote word for word. It was a terrible crime if a scribe even attempted to leave out a word or change one.

The Jewish scribes were not grillots. They did not follow oral tradition, they wrote from original sources. You are the one who said it was stories, prove to me they were.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:47 AM
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Roman Catholics pray the Nicene Creed at Sunday Mass. Here is some history
on the 3 Creeds.


There are three early Creeds, or Professions of Faith as they are also known, that are considered official in the Catholic Church; the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed and the Apostles' Creed. These three creeds form an important statement about what we as Catholics believe. The Nicene Creed is the creed that is recited on Sundays and Solemnities at Mass and was first formulated at the Council of Nicea in 325. The second creed, the Athanasian Creed, composed sometime in the 5th century, is less well known, but has also been a part of the Church's Liturgy. The last Creed, the Apostles' Creed, is the simplest of the three creeds and did not take its final form until the 6th century.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Hi, it's interesting, you first use the general term of "Christianity" and then go on
and get specific, only to call Roman Catholicism evil. Excuse me sister, why weren't you specific in sharing where your Creed came from? Read history, the
three Creeds are Roman Catholic.

All of humanity, less Our Lord's mother has a fallen nature, it is not only men in Roman Catholicism who have done "awful things." Actually, if you read history, most all of the goodness done in the last 2000 years have been from men who were/are "Roman Catholic."

Warmingindy said:

"It seems that there were men of the Catholic church who worshiped power, and those men did awful things in the name of the church, but those men were not of the faith, but faith has remained constant for 2,000 years. It is grossly unfair to blame the faith when evil men who did not even have the faith, nor were worshipers of the faith and say all of Christianity is to blame."


The reason is this Colbe, the RCC became the only religious superpower during the middle-ages. There were evil men in the RCC, that is no new revelation. I said "men of the Catholic church" because there were men of the Catholic church who did evil things. There was even a pope who was not even a man.

John Calvin, who was not Catholic, also persecuted people. But John Calvin did not have special dispensation from a council of Rome who approved of killing people who were not Catholic. That is something you will have to reconcile as a true Catholic, that evil men who called themselves Catholic did evil things.

From your church:
The Inquisition


What must be grasped is that the Church contains within itself all sorts of sinners and knaves, and some of them obtain positions of responsibility. Paul and Christ himself warned us that there would be a few ravenous wolves among Church leaders (Acts 20:29; Matt. 7:15).


The Catholics must recognize there are sinners and knaves. Being Catholic is not automatic protection from God if you kill in the name of God who did not even ask of it. And I never attacked the whole church, just those particular men who did evil things.



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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A new messenger. Sharing one of the November messages. This person is
hearing from Our Lord about the coming election. God forbid if our nation blindly votes for a maximum pro-abort again! Tell me, which one of the present candidates is totally for life?

Is it Ron Paul? I don't know about Newt? Maybe none of them are. God
decides life, not us, ever. It may come down to voting for the lessor evil.

~ ~ ~

Messages to a Chosen Child in Chicago

November 19, 2011 (9:30am)

Tell My beloved children to get started in your prayers. Don't wait or you may find you have run out of time. You always have time for everything else but prayer. You must take these words seriously. Before you didn't pay much attention to what was happening in your country, but now you can see for yourselves what is going on. Your prayers are urgent at this time to save and protect your country from all the evil that is being planned when everyone is preoccupied with sports and trivial matters. My children, I want you to do whatever you are prompted to do by the Holy Spirit. These messages have to be given to anyone you can think of who might understand the messages are coming from the Lord to protect you and help you get your lives right with the Lord. I know you get tired of hearing the same words but they must be said especially for the first time. Many of you are asking about the elections since all of the candidates are claiming to be pro-life. First look at their previous voting records and then pray for the Holy Spirit to let you know if these people are being honest with telling everyone they are really pro-life. Oh My children, there are so many of these candidates who are not for the welfare of your country. Be sure to find out what their positions are on euthanasia and assisted suicide as well as their pro-life positions. These are difficult times you are living in and so you have to be more attentive to what is being told to you by these people who want your votes in the next election. I know some of you find it hard to believe the Lord would be giving messages on politics but this is a very crucial election that will affect your entire life if you get the wrong person to be president. I'm always with you when you pray and ask for guidance. I will ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten you as to who you should vote for. My peace I give to you My dear ones.

I love you, Jesus.


www.catholicbinder.com... or Yahoo Groups ~ Seers 2



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by colbe
reply to post by WarminIndy
 


Hi, it's interesting, you first use the general term of "Christianity" and then go on
and get specific, only to call Roman Catholicism evil. Excuse me sister, why weren't you specific in sharing where your Creed came from? Read history, the
three Creeds are Roman Catholic.

All of humanity, less Our Lord's mother has a fallen nature, it is not only men in Roman Catholicism who have done "awful things." Actually, if you read history, most all of the goodness done in the last 2000 years have been from men who were/are "Roman Catholic."

Warmingindy said:

"It seems that there were men of the Catholic church who worshiped power, and those men did awful things in the name of the church, but those men were not of the faith, but faith has remained constant for 2,000 years. It is grossly unfair to blame the faith when evil men who did not even have the faith, nor were worshipers of the faith and say all of Christianity is to blame."


The reason is this Colbe, the RCC became the only religious superpower during the middle-ages. There were evil men in the RCC, that is no new revelation. I said "men of the Catholic church" because there were men of the Catholic church who did evil things. There was even a pope who was not even a man.

John Calvin, who was not Catholic, also persecuted people. But John Calvin did not have special dispensation from a council of Rome who approved of killing people who were not Catholic. That is something you will have to reconcile as a true Catholic, that evil men who called themselves Catholic did evil things.

From your church:
The Inquisition


What must be grasped is that the Church contains within itself all sorts of sinners and knaves, and some of them obtain positions of responsibility. Paul and Christ himself warned us that there would be a few ravenous wolves among Church leaders (Acts 20:29; Matt. 7:15).


The Catholics must recognize there are sinners and knaves. Being Catholic is not automatic protection from God if you kill in the name of God who did not even ask of it. And I never attacked the whole church, just those particular men who did evil things.


Now speak of the evil men in Protestantism. To deny most of Scripture, to reject
the Eucharist and the New Covenant ministerial priesthood. Recall history, to murder English Catholics and millions of Irish Catholics in the English Inquisition.

I never said Catholics weren't sinners.

colbe:

"All of humanity, less Our Lord's mother has a fallen nature"....

Do you see when the Creeds were written and by who? Long before the
Protestant revolt in the 16th century. God wants you to become Roman Catholic.

Pride stops people and upbringing. God is soon going to show the entire world
the Truth. Warminindy, Jesus isn't returning soon to proclaim you can believe
what you wish. He will not say, pick one from the 30 + thousand Protestant
sects, no. There is one Lord, one faith, one Baptism, it is written in the Gospel.
It figures then, there is one Church, the Church who gave you your Bible, the
Roman Catholic Church.

You'll disagree, not see reading this but just remember, it is close, when you
experience the Great Warning....say "yes" to God, accept the fullness of His
revelation only found in His Church...the RCC. The Remnant is Roman Catholic.

I'll shout it repeatedly cause it's important....the biggest hint to show in these times, the RCC is the true faith, as prophesied in Daniel and spoken of by many modern prophets.

The anti-Christ is going to abolish the Holy Eucharist. Why would he do that
if it were not true?


blessings to you Warminindy (there's a beautiful Catholic Church or maybe a Cathedral downtown Indianapolis),



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:25 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 


I am Pentecostal and have heard the words given in exactly the same manner before. But what this person has done is say a blanket prophecy that is common sense. Of course we have to know how we vote, this is nothing new. I think someone may have indeed heard from the Lord, but thousands of people have also heard this very things for a long time.

This may be a self-fulfilling prophecy. But the person giving the prophecy should not be anonymous. Just to say "a messenger" could mean anyone, including you. Evangelical fundamentals have been saying this same thing for a long time. You mean it is just now getting around to Chicago?



posted on Dec, 14 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Colbe, if you have ever read anything of mine before, which I do not think you have ever done, then you would know where I stand in my faith. Pentecostalism is an experience shared across denominational lines....let me give you an example.


In an ecumenical response to the neo-pentecostal movement that spread in evangelical and liberal circles, a "baptism in the Holy Spirit" including speaking in tongues, was evidenced at a Roman Catholic retreat at Duquesne University in 1967. It spread first to South Bend, then Ann Arbor, then over the world. At first the movement was viewed with extreme caution by Roman Catholic leaders, but it was demonstrated that Catholics in the charismatic movement received a greater appreciation for the Mass, Mary, and the Sacraments, more support was received from the Hierarchy. Charismatic meetings exist in almost every country. There are numerous charismatic bishops, including one Cardinal, Leo Suenens of Belgium. Pope Paul VI, and later John Paul II commissioned Cardinal Suenens to "guide the evolution of the Catholic charismatic renewal, so that it enters fully into the heart of the Church" (RAYMA, Roman Catholic Charismatic magazine, May/June, 1979).


Do you have the pentecostal experience, or did you against your pope? And this

From CHARISMA, February 1987, A NEW PENTECOST IN ROME, written by Richard Lovelace, Professor at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. "Some years ago Derek Prince was speaking at a retreat for charismatic leaders. Suddenly Kevin Ranaghan appeared with a note. Prince registered shock. `It has been announced that the pope has been shot.' "For the next hour the group intereceded for the pope. I was struck by the intensity of the prayer in a mainly Protestant gathering. "Increasingly, Catholics and Protestants are working at a common agenda. And perhaps Catholics are striking closer than Protestants to the original evangelical goal of evangelizing the world and transforming its structures. The church leaped forward past centuries of anti-Protestant reaction to embrace Protestant goals: evangelistic renewal and lay leadership; worship in the vernacular; Bible study for all; freedom of religion."



From Sydney, Australia MORNING HERALD, 8/15/70. "Those Catholics involved in charismatic renewal in Sydney, following the pattern of Catholic Pentecostals in America, have not rejected the institution of the church as a source of grace and revelation. Many Catholics are suspicious of a Pentecostal movement, but the Sydney movement has certainly presented no threat to the Church; the meetings in St. Michael's have the approval of the Cardinal."


Your church is embracing a movement that goes back beyond the Nicea Council. That is what I belong to, not one of the various denominations. But let me ask this Colbe, do you suppose maybe one of those sinners and knaves told you to believe that he was the leader of the only true church? If one evil man said that, then should you not hold him accountable?

The true church is made of people who believe in Jesus Christ and have faith in Him alone. I am not going to argue with you about RCC, because I think if you lived in the middle-ages, you would have willingly embraced the killing of non-believers of the RCC. I did not attack the Catholic church and do not intend to.

Twelve Conclusions of the Lollards


The Second Conclusion is this: Our usual priesthood, the which began in Rome feigned of a power higher than angels, is not the priesthood the which Christ ordained to his Apostles. This conclusion is proved: for the priesthood of Rome is made with signs, rites, and bishops' blessings, and that is of little virtue. nowhere ensampled in the Holy Scripture, for the bishops ordinals in the New Testament be little of record. And we can not see that the Holy Ghost, for any such signs, gives any gifts, for he and his noble gifts may not stand with deadly sin in no matter person. The corollary of this conclusion is that it is full uncouth to many that be wise to see bishops play with the holy ghost in making of their orders, for they give crowns in characters in stead of white harts, and that is the livery of Antichrist, brought into Holy Church to color idleness.


There is nothing in the Bible that even justifies the Roman tradition.




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