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gnostic view of Original Sin/garden of eden

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posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:03 PM
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So I was watching AHS (american horror story) and in the newest episode it showed a painting of eve, the serpent and another figure that resembled Satan maybe?

Anyways, it got me thinking....of gnostic ideas again...

Certain Gnostics thought the "forbidden fruit" of the tree of good and evil was nothing more than a metaphor for sex.

So eve had sex with the serpent, and descended from being a pure innocent being ( state of grace) into a being trapped in a physical body( fall from grace), that knew the pleasure of sex. She had knowledge of both good(spirit) and evil (the flesh, the physical).

She then went and gave this "fruit" this knowledge to Adam, meaning she had sex with him and he descended into a world of physical lust, a world of physical desire...his spirit became trapped in a physical body which had physical desires.... "spirit in the material world"

I do not think the sex act is evil, but I think the fact once eve did have sex she became aware of her body, with all it's physical needs.

I know I am not explaining this as clearly as I'd like to, but I hope someone can see where I am going with this???.....

I mean, the story even says that after they ate of the fruit they felt shame about their naked bodies.....their physical forms.....

I have studied gnostic sects that believed this basic concept, but they were extreme in their dislike for anything physical/worldly/material so much to the point they encouraged their members to not procreate, it was the cathars or the bogomils I think...

I am all for people breaking free from the material chains that bind them and discovering their spirit. But I am also practical enough to realize that material things are of value, humans cannot simply live off spirit alone.

So, If this version of the "original sin" story is correct, what does that say about people today? We live in a very materialistic society that focuses on how good we look physically, how many material things we possess, how many people we have in our lives (level of popularity) and sex is considered as important as water and air. All physical/material things are worshipped but spirituality is often frowned upon, ridiculed or deemed unnecessary in our post modern secular era.

Is it possible that the original sin story was meant to teach us that when we place things of the flesh, i.e. worldly things above our spirits that we too are like eve? We are committing sin? Maybe it is not so much that we deny our physical needs, we have to eat, drink, and procreate....but maybe sin is when we put our physical desires above our spiritual self and allow our lives to be dominated by the physical needs, instead of the spiritual ones....

Maybe this is why Catholics are so hung up with the flesh of Christ and maybe that is why they abstain from red meat during lent..it is all a symbolic representation of these sort of concepts....I sat for years in mass and could never understand this stuff.....

I realize this is not a religious conspiracy per say, but I really did not know where else I should post it...

Any and all thoughts are welcome......




posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by Mijamija

So eve had sex with the serpent,


er.. well no.. not really.. metaphorically YES.. but not sex with a snake.. and not sex with a snake named satan....

According to Gnostic Cannon, the Gnosis (knowledge) of the underlying root wisdom of the story of Adam and Eve is as such...

Eve represents the gentials. (I can hear the kindergarten giggles now)...
Adam represents the Mind (brain) ...
Eve eats of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
This Fruit represents the Orgasm.
it is the 'fruit' of the nervous system... tree being symbolic of it.
she then goes and tells the mind about it.. and the mind partakes.. and the mind understands that it is good..
using gnostic WHITE tantric sex... (sex without orgasm).. you build the energy at the bast of the tree... and it swells and maintains a level of guarding against mortality...
ie: the more you orgasm the more 'chi' or life force you expell and the less is there to support your bodily functions.
the snake represents the kundalini.. merely a energetic circuit of bioelectric urging up your spine in the chape of a snake.. therefor symbolized as a snake.
the snake never tempted eve.
she was tempted herself.

the more you have orgasms.. (that which can bring about the life of an entire new human being) .. the more you give of your own lifeforce away
the less you do... the more you build it up your spine.. up all 33 vertebrae... all 33 degrees.. all 33 yrs of christ.. buid it up the spine.. the stairway to heaven.. you build it to the place of the skull (golgotha)... and have it touch the pineal.. within the holiest of holies... the skull.. where transformation from mortal to immortal is made.

watch the gnostic film on youtube.. SEX: the secret of the garden of eden on youtube for more info..



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:26 PM
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Originally posted by Mijamija

So eve had sex with the serpent, and descended from being a pure innocent being ( state of grace) into a being [color=gold] trapped in a physical body( fall from grace), that knew the pleasure of sex. She had knowledge of both good(spirit) and evil (the flesh, the physical).

She then went and gave this "fruit" this knowledge to Adam



How did we establish that the physical body is a trap.

I know what the average gnostic might say.
The mud pretender god created the mud pretender body as a trap away from the light and spirit.

But that's an easy bluff to make as we cannot disproove it.
At least not while we are still alive.

I have other theories.
To a gnostic does that make me a heretic,
or just less enlightened?


David Grouchy



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Mijamija

So, If this version of the "original sin" story is correct, [color=gold] what does that say about people today?


Exactly.
The gnostic viewpoint
turns all others than ourself
into gross disguises for darkness
or sparks of light trapped in the same darkness.

To a gnostic death is the true joy. The true release from prision.

But what if that version of the "original sin" story is just that.
A version. Who's version? Does it bring new testimony
on behalf of God, or on behalf of what is wrong.

Emanation Cosmogony is interesting an all,
but it seems to have strange limits
on communication between the
spirit and the flesh.

Personally
I don't find that the spirit has any trouble communicating with the flesh,
or the flesh with the spirit.

Gnosticism should be able to produce an artifact
to back up their position that light is trapped in matter, and yearns to be free.


David Grouchy
edit on 1-12-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-12-2011 by davidgrouchy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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Your post took my thoughts to a whole other level! I was being as simplistic as possible...just working out thoughts in writing really. You have given me a different take on this, which is great, I can see how all of that can be seen in sexual terms, but my contemplation was more about how physical things have become more important than spiritual ones, and this desire of the physical, often at the cost of the spiritual might be the reason our world is going to hell in a hand basket....

But I must admit your interpretation is a lot more interesting!

And I am not a gnostic, just studied it....obviously i did not study it as much as you have! Lol!



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by prevenge
 


I really am impressed with the explanation of how orgasm gives away the life force, it makes perfect sense, I also think it is really interesting how you refer to the spine as the stairway to heaven and the 33 vertrabrae are like Christ....I am going to watch the video for sure, but sadly my physical body requires some sleep...I hate to abandon my own thread, but maybe tomorrow I can watch the video and have some more thoughts to add...



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by Mijamija
 





Maybe this is why Catholics are so hung up with the flesh of Christ and maybe that is why they abstain from red meat during lent


Catholics are hung up on alot of things,...

But this one is probably because in the early days of recruiting folks into their new cult, they had to carry over old "pagan" rituals to bring people into the fold so to speak...

many "christian" rituals stem from pagan rituals...


edit on 2-12-2011 by coastlinekid because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by prevenge

Originally posted by Mijamija

So eve had sex with the serpent,


er.. well no.. not really.. metaphorically YES.. but not sex with a snake.. and not sex with a snake named satan....

According to Gnostic Cannon, the Gnosis (knowledge) of the underlying root wisdom of the story of Adam and Eve is as such...

Eve represents the gentials. (I can hear the kindergarten giggles now)...
Adam represents the Mind (brain) ...
Eve eats of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
This Fruit represents the Orgasm.
it is the 'fruit' of the nervous system... tree being symbolic of it.
she then goes and tells the mind about it.. and the mind partakes.. and the mind understands that it is good..
using gnostic WHITE tantric sex... (sex without orgasm).. you build the energy at the bast of the tree... and it swells and maintains a level of guarding against mortality...
ie: the more you orgasm the more 'chi' or life force you expell and the less is there to support your bodily functions.
the snake represents the kundalini.. merely a energetic circuit of bioelectric urging up your spine in the chape of a snake.. therefor symbolized as a snake.
the snake never tempted eve.
she was tempted herself.

the more you have orgasms.. (that which can bring about the life of an entire new human being) .. the more you give of your own lifeforce away
the less you do... the more you build it up your spine.. up all 33 vertebrae... all 33 degrees.. all 33 yrs of christ.. buid it up the spine.. the stairway to heaven.. you build it to the place of the skull (golgotha)... and have it touch the pineal.. within the holiest of holies... the skull.. where transformation from mortal to immortal is made.

watch the gnostic film on youtube.. SEX: the secret of the garden of eden on youtube for more info..



This is all white sexual magick/majick etc..

I would like to stress that this is not the only way to interpret the texts and in fact can lead one to focus their attention in something quite circular and get lost and learn nothing. It would beguile oneself to put sex on the back burner and find alternative meanings before arriving at the sexual translations. One does not start their journey at the end of another persons discoveries.

The OP had some things incorrect, the Gnostic texts are not an easy read and the interpretation is paramount to understanding some of the more complicated passages or what means what etc.

For one thing, it wasn't a serpent who beguiled Eve into partaking of the fruit, it was Christ who appeared in the form of an eagle, and once they ate of the fruit they became aware that they were naked etc..



The Apocryphon Of John - Nag Hammadi Library
"But what they call the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the Epinoia of the light, they stayed in front of it in order that he (Adam) might not look up to his fullness and recognize the nakedness of his shamefulness. But it was I who brought about that they ate." And to I said to the savior, "Lord, was it not the serpent that taught Adam to eat?" The savior smiled and said, "The serpent taught them to eat from wickedness of begetting, lust, (and) destruction, that he (Adam) might be useful to him. And he (Adam) knew that he was disobedient to him (the chief archon) due to light of the Epinoia which is in him, which made him more correct in his thinking than the chief archon...........
"And our sister Sophia (is) she who came down in innocence in order to rectify her deficiency. Therefore she was called Life, which is the mother of the living, by the foreknowledge of the sovereignty of heaven. And through her they have tasted the perfect Knowledge. I appeared in the form of an eagle on the tree of knowledge, which is the Epinoia from the foreknowledge of the pure light, that I might teach them and awaken them out of the depth of sleep. For they were both in a fallen state, and they recognized their nakedness. The Epinoia appeared to them as a light; she awakened their thinking.....


I have been reading the gnostic texts for years now and have come to understand that if you want to know yourself, it is possible.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 06:09 AM
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Please do not misinterpret what I'm saying.

Because we see sex as the root is not necessarily the truth, gnostically we must understand the greatest trick of all was that Yaltabaoth gave us his mind we are ignorant as he is. Which is the crux of the situation when it comes to viewing these texts as sexual guides, or a means of obtaining perfection through some sort of sexual practice.

This although done in pure intention is not what is intended nor should it be taught as such.

It behooves me to find it necessary to write a book about my interpretations of the Gnostic scriptures as I have read them since I find it to differ so much with what I find.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by coastlinekid
 


I agree that the "no red meat during lent" is based off pagan practices, however it also fits nicely into the whole gnostic idea of the corruption of the flesh....I think the church probably mixed both ideas, it does not necessarily have to be one or the other, it most likely began with pagan ritual practices though.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by PuRe EnErGy
 





The OP had some things incorrect, the Gnostic texts are not an easy read and the interpretation is paramount to understanding some of the more complicated passages or what means what etc.


Last time I checked gnostic texts have multiple interpretations, I was truly being simple in my descriptions....I appreciate your interpretation though, I had never heard the one about the eagle....

One of the things I like about gnostic ideas is that they are open to interpretation, and I enjoy hearing new versions of the stories, I had never heard the white magick one either but I find them all a way to gain a better understanding of the "big picture".



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