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The big thread about being gay.

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posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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MOD NOTE, PLEASE READ: Hot Issues, Cool Heads

We've gotten some complaints about this thread, and I want to offer some background and explanation about what the staff is doing here.

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When we do get alerts, we try not to come charging in like bulls in a china shop. It's not unusual to see a lot of technical violations in a hot discussion, but if the thread isn't being deliberately trolled and is just a topic members feel strongly about, going back through it to issue parking tickets doesn't really help anything.

There have been some heated exchanges in this thread, but so far most of us have kept our cool and there have been some excellent posts. I and other mods have subscribed and will be monitoring it, and we'll try to keep things on topic. However, we try not to intervene unnecessarily and strongly prefer it when members can work out differences themselves.

The terms & conditions do prohibit hateful behavior and quite a few other things. However, they do not prohibit controversial opinions, mandate "political correctness" or justify shutting some members down because others disagree with them. Striking a balance between too much or too little restriction isn't easy, but where there is doubt, it goes to the membership.

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Thank you to everyone who chooses to share your opinions on the topic honestly and politely.

You're the best.




edit on 12/2/2011 by Majic because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Really it's just a matter of what the government can and cannot do. And it certainly ought not to have a right to give out marriage licenses.

My memory states that the idea of marriage license was from the era of eugenics in America. To try and stop unfavorable genes from reproducing. This even more so makes it disgusting.

Nor personally I find it disgusting, irrational, and gross, and have no reason to think it's a legitimate entity. But then again, who cares what I think? People have the right to do stupid things and go crazy a bit with their love life. It's not like it's against life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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Here is my problem, in one sentence you say that homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else. Then at the end of your op, you say that they shouldn't be allowed to adopt. How is that equal of having the same rights? It is literally saying that they should not have the right to have a child.

Oh I get it, as long as your sensibilities aren't offended, human rights are allowed.

If you think the government should regulate who has life, where does it end? Licenses for future parents to have kids? Because I've seen a lot of unfit parents who are straight and a lot of people who would be great parents who are gay. As soon as you start removing rights from a sub-culture, you are nothing more than a bigot.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by sonnny1
 


Your right, I called somebody out for completely ignoring a well thought out and presented post that lacked any prejudice or intolerance and spewed a bunch of nonsense about me being a bigot, hating gays and other nonsense.

Your right, this thread is full of insults, full of insults to my intelligence. All I have seen is one gay person after the other slap each other on the back and point fingers yelling INTOLERANCE, GAY BASHER, HATE MONGER instead of having rational discussion.

It is also full of misconceptions, the biggest one is that society is ever going to accept being gay as completely normal and embrace the gay community with open loving arms. This is not a race issue, it is not a religious issue, it is something that has been going since the first civilization on earth, it just has been left behind closed doors for thousands of years because that is usually were sexual preferences should be.



But there you go. You BELIEVE your personal thread,and posts are intelligent. Let others judge for themselves. About discussing? I asked you serious questions,that you DIDNT answer. I dont need snide answers,or innuendo,but a serious response,that can actually be talked about,debated. Are you afraid your child will become Gay? Are you afraid that you will have to change your views of your child if in fact they told you they were Gay? Are you afraid to answer serious questions,or is your agenda of changing folks minds more important. Yes,I called your thread "Gay Bashing". Because you only want to talk about YOUR issues,and YOUR viewpoints. It doesn't work that way. Quit cherry picking those questions,and answer them. Your thread title is "The big thread about being gay."
edit on 2-12-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by DJDigitalGem
 


I have to agree with you on that and my mother is the perfect example. She's on her third marriage now, and that's most likely going to end soon. She's destroyed what I feel is the 'sanctity of marriage' by marrying three different men. I would rather see a same-sex couple who have loved each other for years on end get married than my someone like my mother ruin yet another marriage.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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Firstly I don't see any problem with gay's raising kids it would be no different than a single dad raising a kid except there are two dad's what the big deal with that? There are lots of gay families that have raised a kid that turned out just fine and grew to be very successful in life. Unless you think a child raised in a gay family is going to turn out gay? Because you would be wrong about people don't choose to be gay and raising a kid wont have that kind of impact on his sexual orientation. And secondly your gay percentage is way off even if that is a reliable source what about all the gay's still in the closet cause believe me there's more in the closet then there are out i would say knock both those number up by 10-15%.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Helious
Consider that there are far more mentally ill people in America than there are gays, should we start handing over our children to them too if they ask for it loudly enough?

Why, oh why are you comparing homosexuality with "mental illness"? Apples and bananas much? Or do you still own a copy of a pre-1973 psychology handbook where homosexuality was classified as a mental illness?



We do not live in a Utopian society and we will not for the foreseeable future. With that said, I am very sorry to have to say that the social majority will continue to ridicule and judge what is largely seen to be a sexual preference and something that most people feel should be kept in the bedroom. This is not my ideal nor is it what I wish, it is simply the way society works at our current time and until human nature changes, this is our reality. Perhaps thats where the word tolerance comes in, because the majority will not accept but they may tolerate.

I spot a catch 22. You don't want children to be brought up by homosexual parents because we live in an "intolerant" world... Their classmates will tease them because they've got two mommies? No! We should hide the children from homosexuality. Stick homosexuality back in the closet! Or in the bedroom "where it belongs"... Way to cultivate and promote tolerance.

It simply cannot be denied that a child brought up by same sex parents will be more tolerant. And if there are many children at school with same sex parents, then it wouldn't be "out of the ordinary" anymore, and the bullies will find something new to tease the other kids about. No? And while we're on the subject - it's no secret that kids are cruel. If they don't tease each other about same sex parents, then it will be about big ears, red hair, small feet or the type of lunch they bring to school... That’s simply part of life, and perhaps teaches us all life skills the teachers cannot teach us...

When will human nature change? When will the "reality" change? With the next generation? The one after that? 5 generations of homophobes?
The Reality is change begins with YOU. If YOU don't change your own attitude then why should society or the rest of humanity for that matter?

Actually I have to give some credit to society in general. Large portion of society couldn't care less about other people's sexual preference. Perhaps you live in a environment where there is still a lot of hate towards homosexuals? That isn't necessarily the norm, you know. Some folks may still think that same sex parents are incapable of raising a normal child (We'll get to normal in a second)... But many folks have seen, and experienced that gay parents are pretty good at this parenting thing.


I do think normal adoption should be closed to them, I am sorry but that is my feeling. Children should afforded every chance to grow up in a normal environment where adoption is concerned, at as normal as possible. I say normal because by the numbers being gay is not normal as the percentage lends itself to the argument.

What is the definition of "a normal environment"? Is there such a thing? (Pictures or it didn't happen.
)
Are we talking about "The American Dream" with the white picket fences in the suburbs and a Ford in the driveway? "Average Joe and Jane"? A nuclear family? Dad is a paper weight salesman and brings home the bacon. Mom cleans the home and spends most of the afternoon in front of the stove. Dick and Jane gets good grades and have fun after school with their perfect dog "Woof"?

I think we should pause for a moment and listen to a nice little song. It's called Little Boxes. I thought you may like it, as it may contain some of your ideals...



You have been presented with both facts and first hand testimonials showing clearly that being raised by homosexual parents holds no more or no less harm than being raised by heterosexual parents. You have not addressed any of those posts? Why? With the possibility that you may ignore this post as well, I'll guess the answer: In your opinion homosexual parents shouldn't be able to adopt. You have nothing other than your opinion... You have not presented anything to support or suggest that homosexuals that give children good homes make bad parents. You know what... Perhaps you should have called the thread "My BIG OPINION about being gay."

My opinion? You say you aren't homophobic. I disagree. Not going to change my mind. Much like you will never change your mind about same sex couples and adoption, no matter what anyone says. Was there then a point to all of this?
edit on 2-12-2011 by Gemwolf because: Formatting and grammar



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Raising kids isn't about two men or women. It's about the bond between the parents and the kids. I'm sure everyone would rather have 2 fit, caring men/women than a dirtbag father and mother. It's true that the children don't have a choice that their parents would be gay, but as long as the child is cared for, what's the deal? Me being gay, I don't want special rights. I just want to be equal as everyone else.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 01:46 PM
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nature incorporated sex and sexual urges into the system for the procreation of the species. this can not be argued. but it is not my place to tell someone how to live their life. i have learned to live with all things, and to be okay with everyone. negation is the key.

and as for raising a kid. look at how many "normal" couples raise #ty kids. Children learn by imitation( we are monkeys you know). If a child person has a "good" person to mold himself after he will be fine. To say it is impossible for a same sex couple to raise a child is to say it's impossible for a gay or lesbian to be a good upright person. besides its not just the parents raising the child. it's all of society raising a child.
edit on 2-12-2011 by biggmoneyme because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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Being Gay is as natural as not being Gay, The animal kingdom proves this here
en.wikipedia.org...
so loads of living things are Gay.
Personally I wish more men were Gay so there is more women for me



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


I'm straight.

BRB going to make a thread about it.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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I am straight but have a gay relative.

"Marriage" was created and designed by the government. People think it's a religious thing but....it ain't. Marriage was designed in order for the government to hit you up and track you down.

If you want a committed relationship (gay or straight) all you have to do is, promise one and make your commitment under the Sun and stars. Promise the Universe that that is your intent. Screw marriage.

If a gay couple wants children, fine! Who cares as long as there is love. Love is all that matters. If you think it might screw up a child and their childhood, look around. Most everyone I know is screwed up and they were brought up the 'conventional' way.

And although homosexuality is not my thing nor am I against it either .....most animals are bi-sexual/curious. They mate to procreate. They socialize with both sexes. So whose to say what's 'natural'?

OP, for you to have ANY energy on this, speaks volumes. Go try to resolve world hunger instead!



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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I see what is going on here and I agree that it is good to discuss highly controversial issues so that both sides can come to better understanding of the issues we face in our society.

I usually follow a Libertarian strategy and so I believe that marriage has no place in Government and they have no legitimacy to issue marriage licences (a licence to get married? seriously?). We need to abide by "Separation of Church and State", and allow whatever religions to practice their beliefs the way they see fit, and keep the government the hell out of it.

When it comes to adoption that is a more difficult issue, but really we could avoid the entire thing entirely by simply fixing our adoption system in the first place. For example the child kidnapping agencies need to be shut down immediately, but the legitimate adoption routes should be protected and maintained.

If we just balance both sides of the equation and follow the founding principals of our nation all of these problems would have been prevented for the most part.

I want to thank the OP for being honest and admitting that they are learning and their opinions are changing as they come to new realizations, that is what life is about. Sadly, others from both sides of the debate rarely are willing to make concessions or compromises or admit they were wrong about anything. Hopefully that will change.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien

"Marriage" was created and designed by the government. People think it's a religious thing but....it ain't. Marriage was designed in order for the government to hit you up and track you down.


Totally incorrect. Simple tribes built on small-family structures have marriage but no actual system of governance aside of self-governance. Marriage pre-dates government and can be found in just about every culture in the world, is almost always associated with religious belief or ceremony.


Although the institution of marriage pre-dates reliable recorded history, many cultures have legends concerning the origins of marriage. The way in which a marriage is conducted and its rules and ramifications has changed over time, as has the institution itself, depending on the culture or demographic of the time.[12]


wiki



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:22 PM
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I don't care what you do in the bedroom but I don't want to know about it.
Personally I don't agree with Homosexuality and not just because I'm Christian. I think it's unnatural and depraved and I know it is because if you ask any kid who's untainted by societies baggage they'll tell it like it is. They see it as an uncomfortably foreign and unusual sight to see two men kiss. Why? Because kids in a normal family where a a man and a woman raise them are accustomed to the natural order of things. A man and woman mate and have a child. A woman and woman don't mate and bear a child, nor do a man and a man. The reason I am against Homosexuality is that IT like all of liberal ideals goes directly in opposition to all things natural.
It is a mockery of God's perfect plan to create a man and woman in order to multiply.
Keep your comments about my "superstitious" or "bigoted" beliefs to yourself, I've heard them a million times and they bear no weight with my thought process. You can try and paint the truth over and over with as many coats of propaganda, lies and antagonistic names you can hurl at me. I have no fear of telling the truth and not being liked for it.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by Godofgamblers
 


Not natural? love is the most natural thing in the universe gay people love each other...
Not natural I again post this
en.wikipedia.org...
proving that being gay is as natural as being straight.
While I don't agree ith you one bit I respect your view but I find it my duty to try and make you change your mind....because your wrong..



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by Mdpaulk
Raising kids isn't about two men or women. It's about the bond between the parents and the kids. I'm sure everyone would rather have 2 fit, caring men/women than a dirtbag father and mother. It's true that the children don't have a choice that their parents would be gay, but as long as the child is cared for, what's the deal? Me being gay, I don't want special rights. I just want to be equal as everyone else.

you fail!
Your only arg can be " I'm sure everyone would rather have 2 fit, caring homosexual men/women than 2 fit, caring hetero man and woman.
Hey maybe it is much better to have 1 fit man and 12 fit women in a polygamist hetero relationship raising children?
I am having a very difficult time why the arg for gays is based on reprobate and failed hetero examples to make the point.
To me it shows the absolute falacy of the arg.
Like somehow homosexuals are sooooooo much moral than heteros so therefor by default they are soooooo much more qualified because modern relationships are obviously dysfunctional because of those ugly overbearing hetero males that beat their wives and children and watch porn and have poor grammar and spell really bad and....

Face it, society is crumbling due to a large part of society succombing to the lowest common denominator BECAUSE of the new societal norms, not the reverse.
If your best case scenario isn't held up in comparison to the opposite best case scenario your arg is utter failure from the onset due to poor logic and an inability to complete your own thoughts. I've got my own pet pieve in regards to this type of faulty rationalizing.
There is a new crisis for the gay morality in the form of the Penn State and other university coverups and exposures frrom the predatory homosexual scandals erupting today.
I find it sad that the homosexual community does not step up and address this. I find it disheartening that they claim that they are not because they claim these predators are not homosexuals preying on little boys and young men but are pedophiles unrelated to homosexuality.
What we are all witnessing is the results of immorality being redefined to change the parameters of it's definition and as a result children are suffering as a result of a politically correct agenda.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by manna2
 


How is it a fail?
I never said heterosexuals were more immoral. As long as someone is happy with another, why does gender matter?
Also, dont compare a whole group to a select few people. Not every gay male is a pedophile, last time I checked.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by sonnny1
 


It is also full of misconceptions, the biggest one is that society is ever going to accept being gay as completely normal and embrace the gay community with open loving arms. This is not a race issue, it is not a religious issue, it is something that has been going since the first civilization on earth, it just has been left behind closed doors for thousands of years because that is usually were sexual preferences should be.



I disagree with your statement that society is never going to accept that being gay is normal, I live in the UK and have gay relatives, friends and work mates and no one bat's an eyelid, I think it has been accepted already and rightly so, If people are or ever was anti Gay from what I have seen they either don't say anything about it or have changed their minds.
Yes we still have idiots who may call them the odd name but hey there are idiots all over the world.
Like you said it has been going on for ever, it's natural and like any relationship as long as there is Love it's normal and healthy.
Heck my best mate was brought up by two Gay fella's in the early 80's and I was soooo jealous that he could play football with both parents

edit on 2-12-2011 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Mdpaulk
 


then you can point out where you used a healthy hetero example maybe? I threw the same thing right back at you. And you take offense? why should you take offense? I even used sound logic in appealing to the homosexual community to step up and police itself.
For my own example.
I feel it is despicable that jesuit priests molest little boys and get away with it and I will never set foot in a RCC because of it.
They should be tarred and feathered and prosecuted and then hanged.
And then maybe a trial. It's despicable and goes against Christs teachings and should never ever get swept under the rug but instead they should be made examples of.
The last thing I will do is to justify their actions by claiming something lame like...well, it's better that homosexuals that engage in beastiality. No, that would be an unfair comparison, savvy?



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