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The big thread about being gay.

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posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:10 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Everyone should be treated equally, everyone should butt out of everyone else's sexual orientation.

Everyone should just accept each other.

People "hate" things they don't understand, that they're scared of, that they were brought up to hate, things that they see in themselves and were taught to hate.

Down with division


Up with acceptance


I won't even bother reading the 4 pages of posts..




posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


I watched a show on G4 that actually said gay porn was the biggest profit in the porno industry..



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


I applaud you for being open to changing your mind and realizing that there is nothing wrong with gay marriage. I get what your saying about gay rights too but did you know that in 29 states there is no protection for gay people in the workplace, meaning you can be fired for being gay in any of those states and its completely legal. I do think more protections are needed, as that is governments job. And I don't think having 2 parents of the same sex makes any difference. How many kids are raised by single parents? I was, and it wouldn't have bothered me one bit if I had two parents of the same sex. Love is love. Values are taught by both men and women, having a balance of heterosexual parents makes now difference in my mind. And imagine how many kids that are waiting to be adopted, would you rather they wait forever for parents to adopt them or simply allow gay parents the same ability to adopt. Aren't 2 parents better than no parents?



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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A great name for this Thread would be...

"My big pointless thread about being gay"

I'm sorry, but i don't care for yours', or any ones, opinion on a subject they view through righteous glass.

sorry, i know it sounds mean, but it's how i feel, and i think a ton of people would agree.

Violate me for it..

just sharing my opinion, ya know, opinions..something forums should accept and not punish.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 





The one thing I ask is that you keep our kids out of it, they don't belong too you and they never will.


How exactly do you imagine it? Should adoption by homosexual couples be banned? What if the choice is between a homosexual couple and a foster care, or single parent?

Homosexuals are not sterile, and some may have children from their previous heterosexual relationships, either because they were experimenting with opposite sex or were in the closet, or because they are in fact bisexual, or because of artificial insemination in case of lesbians, or agreement with some other woman to bear their child etc...
What about these cases, should the children be taken away from them?

Or are you just asking them, without enforcing it by any legislation?


As for gay marriage, I am of the opinion that government should keep out of any marriage, and there is little reason for institute of legal marriage to exist, gay or hetero or any other.
edit on 2/12/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by Maluhia
reply to post by Helious
 



Being gay is and will always be a sexual preference

You obviously don't know any gay people because all those I know say they would never in a million years choose to be gay. It's not an easy life - especially when you are born into a family or community that has trouble with the concept.

And as far as children go - I guess you missed this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now, let me see if I can find some examples of heterosexual families with messed up children - oh, never mind - just read your local newspapers.


edit on 2-12-2011 by Maluhia because: (no reason given)


yes you are correct. i have a gay cousin and when he came out the closet he had a hard time being "accepted" by society. he once told me when we were drunk that he wished he was never gay. and you know "drunk words are sober thoughts".
edit on 2-12-2011 by OUTofSTEPwithTHEworld because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:43 AM
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One of my best friends From nursery school came out as gay a couple of years after we left high school. He knows Iv got no problems with anyones sexuality but there are A couple of things I wonder about.

one of them is. We both grew up on the same rough council estate and both had the same local accent. Until he came out of the closet. Within about 2 years of coming out of the closet he devloped the gay accent. and now he extends the S on the end of his converstations and so on. Basically sounds like julian cleary now. I dont get how his accent can change? I know people can't help what sexuality they are but I do feel that they can help talking like that and Im not sure why he puts it on?

I understand that if you go and live somewhere els for a while you can pick up their accent. But he never left our city, His accent just changed to a more camp one.

Im not saying that all homosexual have this voice change but my friend did and Iv heard people on TV talk with it too.

Sorry if I offended I don't mean to but how can You find out if you don't ask questions



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by ThePeopleParty
 


There could be a couple of reasons for his change of accent:

Firstly, he could have been putting on the local accent so as not to draw attention to himself. The inhabitants of rough council estates don't usually go a bundle on people who talk like Julian Clary.


Secondly, as gays form a small minority of the population, he could use that accent to signal his sexual orientation to other gay people, vis a vis in terms of attracting a partner.

Society is based on the assumption that everyone is heterosexual, and gay people form a small percentage of the general population. So, I imagine, outside of the ''gay scene'', it must be very difficult for gay people to find a partner in their day-to-day lives.


edit on 2-12-2011 by Sherlock Holmes because: (no reason given)


+5 more 
posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 06:11 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



*Sigh*

Where to begin? Perhaps a little background about me, that way you have some understanding. I'm a gay man in my 40's. Been married to another man for over 10 years we we have 4 beautiful children. I'm Canadian, and in Canada we decided a long time ago that there were far more important things to worry about than who got to marry who.

3 of those children were adopted, the 1st, our eldest daughter was born via surrogate. My children have never had any societal problems like bullying or depression, or just in general being messed up. Sure they've had their hurdles attempting to decide who they are, like all teenagers and young adults do, but it certainly wasn't because of their parents.

I'll address a few things in you OP:

The gay marriage thing. The government has no business deciding who and who can't get married and share lawfull rights that come along with that peice of paper. We seem to agree on that.

As for gay rights, I don't think they exist either, but in the concept of Marriage, they do. You see gay folk aren't afforded the same rights that heteros enjoy. There are over 1000 rights that a marriage certificate provides that gay couples cannot get under the current law. That's discriminatory, regardless of how other people want to sugar coat it.

As for "gay" not being natural, sure you can look at it from the standpoint of " Ohh well you can't procreate, so your not natural." Well sorry to say that my junk works just fine, proof of that lies in the 19 year old that lives under my roof.

Just because we could not have children "together" in the traditional sense, does not make our need or want to be parents any less valid that yours. It doesn't make our ability to raise successfull and productive members of society. The people who make that difficult for us to do, are people with opinions like yours.

Now this isn't a dig at you, and I respect your opinion, but the fact of the matter is that nobody complains about anything ,except for people with opinions like yours. The vast majority of the population really doesn't care.

The last thing I"ll address is the last paragraph of your OP:


Be gay, be gay all you want, enter into contracts with your rogue government to achieve "marriage". Hold hands, kiss in public, spread your all is love and love is all message and be happy! The one thing I ask is that you keep our kids out of it, they don't belong too you and they never will.


Your children? I apologize, but my name is the birth certificate of my children. My dollars have paid for everything they have up until now and my parenting and giving of oppportunities have made them into the people they are today. So please tell me how they aren't mine? Or how they never have been?

Tell me, would those children have been better off, left in the 3rd world countries they came from, instead of in a loving home with financial security, proper education, proper social upbringing and opportunity to follow their dreams?

If the answer is yes, on the simple account that me and my husband are gay, than I truly must wonder how you came to that logical conclusion.

~Keeper

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

edit on 12/2/2011 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Firstly, being gay is not a choice at all, it is inborn. Look at nature. Homosexuality occurs naturally at the same rate in nearly all species.

Secondly, a child raised by two members of the same gender is actually LESS likely to be gay than one raised by two opposite gendered people.

Thirdly, if your reasoning for two men not being allowed to raise a child is that they cannot have a child naturally, then all sterile people should be banned from having children.

There is no evidence whatsoever that says that same sex parenting is in any way detrimental to a childs health.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


this isnt about " being gay " - its what you and others think about it



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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Obviously the gay population of ats don't like the OP.
I think adults who love each other should be allowed to without any objections from any government.
But I don't think I'm in favor of gay people raising kids.
Call me every name under the book, tell me I have a chemical imbalance, lynch me.
But it's what I think and trully feel.
Flame me, it'll be a waste of energy.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by Helious
3.) Gay adoption - Seriously?

3.) My answer: The world in it's present state is chaotic at best and while I will fully state that I believe that two people of the same sex can raise a child, love them and be "good" parents, I honestly don't feel like that is healthy for the child, either in the early or the latter years. The cold, hard fact of the matter is, the coupling of two people of the same sex is not natural and children should not be subjected too it, that is why men can not have children with men and women can not conceive with a women. A little thing called "propagation of the species" defines this point of view. We can't very well let our children be pre disposed to a lifestyle while they are impressionable that is not "normal" and by normal I mean it in the sense of propagation of the species, that is not the way and is not in the best interests of our children.


Allow me to start by saying I was raised by a gay couple. I personally think that because of that I am a much better person than my peers. Not once in my life did I EVER feel it was "Unnatural" or "wrong". I knew it wasn't the same as other families, but that's what made it special.
And your thing about pre disposing children to some kind of lifestyle?! I'm sorry, but I really don't understand where you're coming from. I am a 21 year old straight woman. My parents sexual orientation has not affected my character in any way. I never felt pressured to "be gay", and I always knew I liked guys. You know, the hardest thing about being raised by a gay couple is other kids who were probably raised by people like you. Kids who thought homosexuality was some kind of genetic disease and decided to call me a "dyke" on the playground. Do I blame my parents for this?? OF COURSE NOT. I blame those other kids parents for not teaching them acceptance and kindness.
My parents did everything for me. Even when we had no money for anything they always made sure I was fed, clothed, and healthy. I am now a Veterinary student with 3.3 grade point average, a boyfriend whom I love very much, and my own house. I would say I've done quite well for myself. I would not be the person I am today without my gay parents, and I wouldn't change my upbringing at all.
My biological father was a drunk, abusive ***hole (My mom always knew she was gay, so I can't really explain how she ended up with my father) and he is now deceased, thank god. I personally would much rather have 2 awesome female parents than an awesome mother and a sh*t father. I never knew my father and my mothers wife officially adopted me before I can even remember. All I ever knew was our "gay" family. And you know what?? I LOVE IT AND WOULDN'T CHANGE IT FOR THE WORLD.
I was raised differently, but not badly. I was taught acceptance, tolerance, and equality at an early age. I am not gay. I did not feel like I was worse off than my peers. I am intelligent and kind. I was not PRE DISPOSED to any kind of lifestyle, and I feel that is a very ignorant way of looking at things. Clearly you know absolutely nothing about children who have been raised by gay parents so it is ignorant of you to make assumptions. I forgive you, though. I'm hoping that through this post you will become more educated about this issue, because ignorance is not bliss, my friend. I suggest you go out into your community and TALK to some children who have gay parents. Maybe you'll see that we are not really affected by it at all. Hey, some of us even prefer it. In closing, please open your mind, and don't presume to make assumptions about an issue you know nothing about.
EDUCATE, DON'T DISCRIMINATE.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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to me this kind of discussion is crazy.
It always comes down to arguing the lowest common denominator in comparing what society deems as right.
I can try and give my opinions but I hate the way a differing opinion seems to contradict the live and let live ideals promoted from a gay lifestyle.

Gay marriage: eh. Why is it so important to impose this ideal onto someone elses?
Marriage has a religious foundation.
The problem came when the secular world adopted it into secular laws that needed a state sponsored support.
All laws today are commerce based and not morality.
You cannot legislate morality effectively and to be honest, I cannot see anywhere that this is the case.
It is a legal contract between the 2 entities and the state.
It used to be between the man and the woman and God.
Sorry, this is no longer the case.
So change the name allready instead of imposing a new definition of marriage.
Why not civil unions?
It simply will allow religion to practice marriage and gay couples to inherit the same secular rights as anyone else.
But I personally have found this is not enough for the "gay rights" cause. They do seem to want to tell the rest that they have no right to live their lives as being sanctioned by a religious history, true or false.
No, it seems it is more important to try and legislate to others what is deemed moral or immoral. That is simply wrong imho.

Gay rights: huh? Who has rights? We have liberties but I can assure you we all have no "rights" The state assures you of that and no laws will support you in this.
It's all about restricting any rights you feel you are entitled to and this debate is meant to do just that.
So if you want more rights than someone else, you are wrong to pursue it.
And what is it with this thing where the only examples offered appeals to the lowest common denominator in human relations?
Where is the honest debate where the highest of each args ideals are held up in comparison?
No, instead we talk about porn, wife beating, incest, philandering, beastiality, etc...
The entire arg is disengenuous as a result.

Raising kids: ok, this is where I will take a cheap shot. It's simple.
Gay parents should be allowed to raise gay kids and heteros should be allowed to raise hetoro children. Simple enough? I know, I know


Now to the being born with it thing.
Sorry, the gay gene thing was completely and totally debunked long ago.
The guy that made the claim in finding it lied.
But what I am certain of is that the feminizing of men and women desiring each other is partly, if not wholly stemmed from our environment and genetically can be passed onto their progeny for a generation or 2 from the mass inundation of chemicals and hormoned PUSHED through our food and water.
The amounts of synthetic female hormones found in our water supply is staggering as well in our foods.
Soy for example.
If you want to add a feminine side to your personna by creating more female hormones into your allready messed up body system eat soy. It will make you a girly man if thats what you want....or not. Soy is not the only endocrine disrupter type of food, it is just the most common as it is being used as a feed for animals and human chattel.

And as for porn....all porn is gay porn, deal with that little nugget.
Even Hugh Hefner is said to only be able to get off by watching gay porn of men while at the same time being surrounded by women either engaging in or simulating gay sex. What a crazy world we live in where we now attempt to explain a morality using a compass that only points to the lowest common denominator to make a point.
I will patiently wait for someone to hold up the highest ideals of mankind to make their point on these topics....But I am assured it will not take place in this thread.

For instance. Is it ok for a couple who identifies themselves as Christian, Jew or Muslim to adopt children if they espouse to teach them morality based on their own values? Or is this a crime in a homosexual agenda? I have seen a huge hypocrisy in this arg when comparing the views espoused in these types of threads by the homosexual identity apologists.
No, instead they want the hetero side of the arg to only be identifyed by reprobate activities such as molestation, philandering, spouse abuse, etc... It's so disengenuous if you ask me.
imho the only way to debate this honestly is to raise up the moral champions on both sides and debate it out.....yaeh riiiiiiiiight! lol subjective morality for the win eh,
It's sad to see society always succombing to the lowest of ideals when it comes to moral integrity and we wonder why our media and politicians are so damn corrupt.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


More good parents standing up for what is right,is needed in this thread.


I applaud the way you have raised your children,as I would believe that you have taught them tolerance,in a world of intolerance.

Single father here,BTW................




posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


sure there are risks, there are risks to any type of sex that's why there is sex education. safe sex should be practiced by everyone.
edit on 12/2/2011 by -W1LL because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by dannotz
A great name for this Thread would be...

"My big pointless thread about being gay"

I'm sorry, but i don't care for yours', or any ones, opinion on a subject they view through righteous glass.

sorry, i know it sounds mean, but it's how i feel, and i think a ton of people would agree.

Violate me for it..

just sharing my opinion, ya know, opinions..something forums should accept and not punish.


Thanks for the thread name advice but I think Ill stick with what I got. Funny though, if you didn't care why have you posted 3 times on the same page of the thread?

You do care and there is no righteous glass that I look through, I'm not preaching from a soapbox and I wasn't insulting anyone, I was just sharing my opinion as well and you ridiculed me for it, hypocrite much?



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Helious
I wasn't insulting anyone,



Originally posted by Helious
Good luck with raising those kids, if your there role model I can expect they will turn out with very low scores in reading comprehension and Independent thinking



Your thread is full of insults,misconceptions,and outright intolerance.



BTW,my kids are on the honor roll......Who would have thunk it?????



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:49 AM
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reply to post by manna2
 


I appreciate the post and the story, both were good and I enjoyed reading it. I was a little tipsy last night in some of later posts, I am back on point now.

What is this word, tolerance I hear so much about as it pertains to the gay community? Do gays think people should tolerate them? Who coined that word to use for gays? I think that is a strange word to associate with the subject.

We do not live in a Utopian society and we will not for the foreseeable future. With that said, I am very sorry to have to say that the social majority will continue to ridicule and judge what is largely seen to be a sexual preference and something that most people feel should be kept in the bedroom. This is not my ideal nor is it what I wish, it is simply the way society works at our current time and until human nature changes, this is our reality. Perhaps thats where the word tolerance comes in, because the majority will not accept but they may tolerate.

There are circumstances where I could understand a child being raised by gay parents and I don't think children would be better off with abusive heterosexual parents or under other extreme duress. I do think normal adoption should be closed to them, I am sorry but that is my feeling. Children should afforded every chance to grow up in a normal environment where adoption is concerned, at as normal as possible. I say normal because by the numbers being gay is not normal as the percentage lends itself to the argument.

Consider that there are far more mentally ill people in America than there are gays, should we start handing over our children to them too if they ask for it loudly enough? Are we discriminating against them? After all, most were born that way and it's not a choice and I'm sure with enough Xanax some can be good parents and the kids may even be better for it, what do you think?



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 11:57 AM
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reply to post by sonnny1
 


Your right, I called somebody out for completely ignoring a well thought out and presented post that lacked any prejudice or intolerance and spewed a bunch of nonsense about me being a bigot, hating gays and other nonsense.

Your right, this thread is full of insults, full of insults to my intelligence. All I have seen is one gay person after the other slap each other on the back and point fingers yelling INTOLERANCE, GAY BASHER, HATE MONGER instead of having rational discussion.

It is also full of misconceptions, the biggest one is that society is ever going to accept being gay as completely normal and embrace the gay community with open loving arms. This is not a race issue, it is not a religious issue, it is something that has been going since the first civilization on earth, it just has been left behind closed doors for thousands of years because that is usually were sexual preferences should be.




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