The big thread about being gay.

reply to post by el1jah


I can get behind that idea. It doesn't change my mind in the overall scheme of things, but I'm glad that you had good parents.

3.) Gay adoption - Seriously?

3.) My answer: The world in it's present state is chaotic at best and while I will fully state that I believe that two people of the same sex can raise a child, love them and be "good" parents, I honestly don't feel like that is healthy for the child, either in the early or the latter years. The cold, hard fact of the matter is, the coupling of two people of the same sex is not natural and children should not be subjected too it, that is why men can not have children with men and women can not conceive with a women. A little thing called "propagation of the species" defines this point of view. We can't very well let our children be pre disposed to a lifestyle while they are impressionable that is not "normal" and by normal I mean it in the sense of propagation of the species, that is not the way and is not in the best interests of our children.

As a lesbian, and a parent of two, I take offense to this. First and foremost, there are WAY too many children "in the system" right now to justify not qualifying gays as parents simply because of their sexual orientation. Children of all ages are being thrown in to a "system" that they don't understand and for reasons that are beyond their control. Their heterosexual parents couldn't take care of them or abused them and they had to be removed from their home.

Let's just take a look at the heterosexual side of this issue.

Scenario 1 - A couple makes a child and lets say husband "Joe" gets off on beating the child. Mother "Jane" doesn't do anything to stop the abuse and, in fact, turns a blind eye to it. The child is (hopefully) removed from that home and placed in "the system". Abused by their wonderful heterosexual parents.... NICE.

Scenario 2 - mother "Jane" is addicted to illegal drugs. She's strung out, has no job and no way to care for her children. She couldn't care less if they have food, shelter or clothing and only cares about feeding her drug habit. The father doesn't want anything to do with her, or the kids. These children are hopefully removed and placed in "the system". Lack of compassion, caring or simple civility keeps this mother from seeing that her children's most basic needs are met.

Scenario 3 - mother "Jane" gets pregnant by daddy "Joe" and neither of them wants a child. She opts out of an abortion but decided to give her child away. The child may, or may not, be privately adopted but either way, it goes in to "the system". Lack of birth control forces this child out of their home.

So all of these stem form the abuse of procreation by heterosexuals, as well as selfishness, addiction and anger. I adopted my children from scenario 2. Their biological mother is strung out on meth and to this day is still wandering the streets of Phoenix. I know this because I have seen her several times. In this woman's case, she lost every single child she ever had, which was a total of five.

As a parent, it's my responsibility to make sure my children have what they need and they do. It's my job to make sure they grow up to be happy, healthy and wise adults. Both of my kids are doing great in school (excelling in fact!), both are healthy and participate in sports, and both are HETEROSEXUAL.

We have conversations with them about the gay and lesbian lifestyle and our oldest wants to protest us not being allowed to get married. Our children are growing up in a home which has seen, tolerated and over come many adversities. We are raising them to be strong, independent women and they are taking the ball and just running with it.

Our children were the product of heterosexuals acting selfishly and irresponsibly. If God can't see that us giving them a good home and a wonderful life isn't a good thing then he must be on CRACK. For those of you out there that don't see the good in this then you should volunteer some time with children in "the system"; it will open your now closed eyes.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by facelift

 

Pretty sure your reply has nothing to do with the OP. His opinion concerns gay people attempting to raise a child, and how he disagrees with it.

Firstly, let me start by stating my position as it would seem that some here see me as "hating" gay people, some see me as being a "religious zealot" and some people just think I am homophobic. I am in point of fact, none of those things. I don't hate anyone, if I did, I can promise you that gay people would be last on my list. I am religious but I don't claim to know who or what God is, just that he exists and I don't think that "he" hates gay people either. I am definitely not homophobic, I have a very good friend of 12 years who is very much openly gay and we get drunk together and hang out all the time, one of many as I am in the restaurant industry.

The threads a personal disclaimer from an insecure individual, so I replied in kind...


But don't focus on that - just keep strokin' your pal...

reply to post by Saltarello

Problem is, they segregate themselves, they want to feel special for being gay, warm in the inside or something. I dont go around bragging about my heterosexuality (sp?) nor do I ask for "special" privileges, see adoptions and such.

Absolutely. It is as though their entire lifestyle revolves around their sexual preference.

2nd line

reply to post by lambs to lions


What can a man give my children that I cannot? I served honorable in the US Army, I am the go to gal for computer issues, I know how to work on cars, I am both book smart and street wise, I am self sufficient and I'll be damned if I need a man for ANYTHING.

My partner is the nurturing one and I am the life skills coach. No man is needed here.

reply to post by facelift


Never met him, my opinions are my own. You want me to respect your opinions, but you don't respect mine. How is that supposed to work?

reply to post by DJDigitalGem


Star for You!!


I admire what you have accomplished.

True happiness and Love,is always better then hate.

Hate is a vile word,masked by innuendo.

reply to post by DJDigitalGem


I have no doubt you are a great person, as well as a great parent.

Originally posted by lambs to lions
reply to post by rexusdiablos

 

Hateful homophobic gibberish. The majority of ATS will see your tired rant as such. They would be correct in doing so. Please evolve.

Please evolve. I'm sorry, I didn't realize we had 'evolved' biologically to have sex with like genders. Square peg, round hole...brilliant. That sure sounds like an advanced species to me. How could I have been so ignorant?

I think you're confused as to what the definition and etymology of the word evolution is. The term evolution isn't exclusive to biology. Etymologically speaking, in the 1660's it meant the "growth to maturity and development of an individual living thing". Overcoming homophobia represents evolution in this sense.

www.etymonline.com...

Besides, you're not even talking about evolution, you're talking about rendering everybody the same as you. True biological evolution entails the asexualization of our species, the outmoding of sexual procreation and the sexual organs. As ungodly as that might sound to you, it is our biological apex to harmonize with the technological but I bet I know what problem you have with this... it represents a deviation in our species that's different to you, just like homosexuals. Stop acting so threatened and stop obsessing over what two adults in love do in their bedroom. It's a joke. Wake up to yourself.

Originally posted by rexusdiablos
Hateful homophobic gibberish. The majority of ATS will see your tired rant as such. They would be correct in doing so. Please evolve.

The only "big" thing about this thread is your bigotry to those who are different to you. Sad veiled rants like these come and go on ATS on a fortnightly basis. By majority they fail time and time again. The squashing of these hateful threads is exponential as more and more members catch on. Mind your own God damned business and stop treating others as second rate citizens because they're not identical to you. It's pathetic.

edit on 1/12/2011 by rexusdiablos because: (no reason given)

Close minded, judgmental gibberish. Perhaps a dictatorship state would be best suited to you. Why do you hate free speech so much? Does it threaten you?

reply to post by lambs to lions


They did the best they could, and I love them, but my childhood really sucked, and my parents are divorced, I just wish they had the face to do it sooner then they did.

My point was that, gender is the last stop of a complex system of energies and 'ideas' that form a human spirit and body. I am yet to see a gay couple who is 'male' and 'male' in those energies, the balance between female and male is always met regardless of the sex.

reply to post by DJDigitalGem


You say "no man is needed", but if one of your children is a boy don't you think a man is better suited to answer questions a male child may have? I'm not doubting your parenting ability or questioning what kind of parent you are, but there is more to being a man than knowing how to fix a car or being able to preform physical labor a certain way.

Originally posted by Helious

Close minded, judgmental gibberish. Perhaps a dictatorship state would be best suited to you. Why do you hate free speech so much? Does it threaten you?

I simply provided a rebuttal. Where did I challenge or suppress freedom of speech?

Mind you, by your own logic, are you not now hating my freedom of speech?

It's called a debate. It consists of motion, proponents and opponents. Allow me to introduce myself as an opponent. When I oppose the motion, it's a constructive part of the debate and not a queue for you to yell "Nazi!/Dictator!/Fascist! /Hater of freedom of speech!" Instead, offer what's called a "counter-rebuttal". Look it up. There's fun to be had.

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by Helious

 

Be gay, be gay all you want, enter into contracts with your rogue government to achieve "marriage". Hold hands, kiss in public, spread your all is love and love is all message and be happy! The one thing I ask is that you keep our kids out of it, they don't belong too you and they never will.

You're so full of double standards that one might come to the conclusion that you have a chemical imbalance, but that's it...so continue to sleep well.

That post is so without merit it only embers with gay people who are reading this thread and like the validity your post brings.

There are no double standards in my post, there are only standards. Care to prove me wrong, I would love the challenge.

reply to post by rexusdiablos


Nice, a definition! Love it. I guess something must be wrong with me then, because I just don't feel the way you do. You can dress it up anyway that you want. It doesn't change anything. I will refrain from continuing to state my position because it is obvious that it is hurting people's feelings. Which believe it or not is not my intent. I replied to the OP, and perhaps I took the subject too lightly because it is now apparent that it is an extremely sensitive topic for some. I knew that it was, and did not use good judgement. Good luck with all your endeavors, I truly wish all of you nothing but the best.

PS, it doesn't matter what I think, you should all continue to do what makes YOU happy...thats all that any of us can ever hope to do, regardless of sexual orientation.

reply to post by Helious


you say heterosexual people are ok to raise kids.
you say homosexual people are not ok to raise kids.

that is a double standard. you say a set of people get one standard while the other set of people get another standard.

Originally posted by Helious

The one thing I ask is that you keep our kids out of it, they don't belong too you and they never will.

Hmmmmm........


My children don't belong to you either. Your children don't belong to me. Its up to a parent to decide how to raise a child. Its up to the child to become who he/her wants to become. You can only hold your child's hand up the path for so long.Questions..........Are you afraid your children will become gay? Are you afraid of what someone you know,family members,friends,will think about you? Do you teach tolerance,or intolerance to your children? Would you be mad at your God if a Gay person saved one of your children's life ? Would you chastise your child for living? Seriously,we are all humans on this little planet. Love a little more.............

Originally posted by godWhisperer
reply to post by Helious

 

you say heterosexual people are ok to raise kids.
you say homosexual people are not ok to raise kids.

that is a double standard. you say a set of people get one standard while the other set of people get another standard.

This is not a double standard. Heterosexual people raise kids because they have them. Homosexual people are not ok to raise kids because they don't have them. Where is the double standard?

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by Helious

 

Be gay, be gay all you want, enter into contracts with your rogue government to achieve "marriage". Hold hands, kiss in public, spread your all is love and love is all message and be happy! The one thing I ask is that you keep our kids out of it, they don't belong too you and they never will.

You're so full of double standards that one might come to the conclusion that you have a chemical imbalance, but that's it...so continue to sleep well.

That post is so without merit it only embers with gay people who are reading this thread and like the validity your post brings.

There are no double standards in my post, there are only standards. Care to prove me wrong, I would love the challenge.

destroyer of words with that post..


what gives you the right to generalize a group of people you obviously dont know? and deny them anything especially parenthood...

if you really cared about the kids you should be more interested in the millions of orphans out there with no hope of ever meeting a parent that loves them... hey word here LOVE gay or straight the love of the parents is what matters, and with that love comes dedication caring and self sacrifice something gay people are capable of, sorry I dont have a fake statistic to back that up, its true non the less.

Originally posted by Helious
That post is so without merit it only embers with gay people who are reading this thread and like the validity your post brings.

I'm not gay and it resonates with me. Are you honorable enough to admit that you were wrong?

Besides, "Embers" is a noun. Not a verb. For clarity, what is it you think you're saying?

Originally posted by Helious
There are no double standards in my post, there are only standards. Care to prove me wrong, I would love the challenge.

Hate to be a party pooper but I accept that challenge though I'd hardly consider it a challenge given the replete ideological inconsistencies in your OP.

Firstly you say:

Originally posted by Helious
I have no wish for there to be any hateful or disrespectful posts

...but then you say:

Originally posted by Helious
Gay adoption - Seriously?

That's a double standard considering many homosexuals and homosexual parents would regard such a tone as disrespectful.

You're beaten. Challenge over. There's more, but you've already lost so why bother.