Was Eden God's 2nd attempt?, page 1
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Topic started on 1-12-2011 @ 09:44 PM by lambs to lions
I'll keep this short and simple.

There is no need to rehash all the circumstantial evidence which may or may not support the idea that there were previous advanced civilizations. Most of us are aware of Plato's mentioning of Atlantis, as well as the Sanskrit epic the Mahabharata. There is also plenty of writings throughout many cultures which speak of a global flood that wiped out much of human civilization.

Now to my question. Is it possible that God has attempted to create a peaceful, successful society in the past only to see it dissapoint?

My question revolves around a few passages in Genesis. After discover that Cain had killed his brother Abel, the Lord punished Cain by sending him away from the area known as Eden. Cain was horrified by this because he was scared of the other people on earth whom he believed would surely kill him.

This suggests that there was an existing civilization outside of Eden. Apparently, a hateful or barbaric civilization as well.

Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the LORD said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.

So I ask, was Eden a segregated attempt to start things fresh?


reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 09:47 PM by Shadow Herder
reply to post by lambs to lions



The question of the personality of Adam, regarded as the first man, and sole progenitor of the human race, is not the only one in regard to which the religious convictions of the world have necessarily undergone modification.

The hypothesis of the rotation of the earth round the sun appeared, at one time, to be in such utter opposition to the letter of the Bible, that every species of persecution was directed against it, and against those who advocated it. Yet the earth continued to move on in its orbit in defiance of anathemas; and no one, at the present day, could contest the fact of its movement without doing violence to his own powers of reasoning.

The Bible also tells us that the world was created in six days, and fixes the epoch of this creation at about 4000 years before the Christian era. Previously to that period the earth did not exist. At that period it was produced out of nothing. Such is the formal declaration of the sacred text, yet science, positive, inexorable steps in with proof to the contrary. The history of the formation of the globe is written in indestructible characters in the worlds of fossils, proving beyond the possibility of denial that the six days of the creation are successive periods, each of which may have been of millions of ages.

This is not a mere matter of statement or of opinion. It is a fact as incontestably certain as is the motion of the earth, and one that theology itself can no longer refuse to admit, although this admission furnishes another example of the errors into which we are led by attributing literal truth to language which is often of a figurative nature. Are we therefore to conclude that the Bible is a mere tissue of errors? No; but we must admit that men have erred in their method of interpreting it.INfo
edit on 1-12-2011 by Shadow Herder because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 09:55 PM by lambs to lions
reply to post by GmoS719



Perhaps, but by doing so He would have robbed us of our free will. I believe His hopes were that we would make the right choices, not have the choices made for us.


reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 10:03 PM by GmoS719
reply to post by lambs to lions



If we were never given free will, we wouldn't really be robbed from it.
How boring would that be..


reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 10:18 PM by Shirak
reply to post by lambs to lions



If this subject is of interest to you there are books omitted from the bible called the Apophica or something like that with a book about Cain etc. Lost in translation time and all that. These stories hold value for me only to indicate values people at the time of translation may have held.
Why do we look to the past for answers? Not sure. So many are present in the NOW.


reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 10:21 PM by Klassified
reply to post by lambs to lions



Had a hard time finding a reference to it:

The Jewish Sages accept the notion that homo-sapiens existed before Adam & Eve, but that these were not endowed with the soul that God breathed into Adam’s nostrils which, in a sense, renders them as being sub-humans, or of the animal kingdom

www.thejewishhome.org...

This is just one reference. I'm sure some google searches will find more.

ETA: This brings a few questions to mind I've pondered occasionally. I don't believe in god but...

1. Is this an ancient record of the existence of two species of humans living together at the same time?

2. And if so, is it possible that there is still a pure lineage of the former still living?

3. Is this a belief commonly held by ancient Jews, causing them to think many cultures on the earth weren't of the bloodline of Adam and Eve, and were therefore no better than animals to be slaughtered?
edit on 12/1/2011 by Klassified because: eta



reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 10:29 PM by burningbelief
reply to post by lambs to lions



According to the scriptures...the earth was made "as of old" by the creator...I have many times wondered if it was another attempt...or did it mean God could transcend time (of course he can since he created time and shall order the end to it in Revelations) and make oil, gas, fossils and soil "as it had beeen there millions of years"....this is a good question for me being a christian. I would like to know the real answer as well. Am anxious what some of our esteemed scholors on ATS have to say.



reply posted on 1-12-2011 @ 11:12 PM by coastlinekid
reply to post by lambs to lions



Why would the supreme being "attempt" anything?

He is supposedly the supreme being!

Believers always humanize their deity...
edit on 1-12-2011 by coastlinekid because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 2-12-2011 @ 07:15 PM by Seede
reply to post by lambs to lions



That is a well thought out question. You know I'm going on ninety now and I had never even contemplated such an idea. Goes to show that we have some good thinkers out there in ATS land.

The way I understand the Genesis account is that this all happened after they were expelled from the garden. I understand that both boys and their twin sisters were born after Adam & Eve were expelled from the garden. I don't think twin sisters are in the bible but it is taught in Torah Anthology that both boys had a twin sister. Doesn't make any difference though, your question is still valid.

Connected to your question is that of the mark that was placed on Cain. The way I understand it is that the mark was not placed as a punishment but instead as a protective identification. The question you have brought forth is a very good one. People lived such long lives in that era that I wonder if that was for future generations who would grow up and become killers or as you said that there might have been other clans out there in that big world. Good thought.
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