Finally we have a date : December 9

According to Morgan Stanley.

Fiscal Federalism Or Bust! Morgan Stanley Sees Dec 9th As Real European D-Day

His view that without a clear path to a fiscal lender of last resort - or a true fiscal federalism across a united Europe - which ensures solvent governments will never go illiquid, then the December 9th decisions mark a bifurcation point of critical import.

If governments choose to engage on the route to fiscal federalism, we believe that this does not mark the end of the crisis. It could, however, mark the beginning of the end of the crisis, as it would be a decisive first step towards stabilisation and a European federation. The alternative could well be the beginning of the end for the European confederation.

Europe has to choose between debt assumption (enhanced federal control of national budgets accompanied by centralised funding of governments) and a debt jubilee (wide-scale debt repudiation), with all the social, economic and political consequences this entails. Mares' framework for considering the words and deeds of December 9th is critical, though complex, reading to comprehend the tipping point we are at.

Two choices :
- Lose your sovereignty : that means that most of European countries budgets will be CONTROLLED by a central european body... which means that countries will lose their sovereignty... it's like the IMF taking over.

- Break up the euro or European countries defaulting : most banks in Europe go boom, destroying the European economy.

Either way this is gonna end badly.

What will it the elite choose? Me thinks they will choose concentration of power, losing of sovereignty... what the globalists have been after for decades. And this will create hell in the streets... possibly even revolutions and another war in Europe... which the elite would love too.

What Hitler couldn't do with tanks was done with banks. Congratulations Goldman Sachs.

Well, at least it's not an asteroid strike, Jesus coming back, earthquakes caused by CME, a virus that will wipe us all out, or alien disclosure. Whew.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Everybody is blaming the Banks! Fair comment,

But what about the players in these banks that have caused all this?

Lets get their names out there, where they live, work, how they profited personally

Originally posted by kushin
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Everybody is blaming the Banks! Fair comment,

But what about the players in these banks that have caused all this?

Lets get their names out there, where they live, work, how they profited personally

We all know their names. Where they work and how they profited personally. It's already in dozens of threads on ATS and tens of thousands of websites around the web.

But this ain't the subject right now.

And in the last sentence of the OP, I pointed out Goldman Sachs as one of the culprits... a big one at that.

reply to post by Vitchilo


doesn't some illuminati website have a countdown clock that ends on dec 8th? i don't know for sure, only read in passing a thread on ATS on the subject.. let me find.. here

Um I just do not think these countries that lose sovereignty, like Italy, and Greece, are going to accept that to well. Your talking about Greece, the founder of democracy, and Italy the founder of Rome. I do not see these countries as puppet governments to a central Government in Europe, or whatever it is they are dreaming up in Europe..


Traders are in lala land, along with whoever else thinks countries are just going to hand the keys over to the gates






Lets see how this chit storm settles, before we go off the depend with this..

It won't go as planned. never does.

Originally posted by kushin
reply to post by Vitchilo

 

Everybody is blaming the Banks! Fair comment,

But what about the players in these banks that have caused all this?

Lets get their names out there, where they live, work, how they profited personally

That is part of the problem.
In a lot of cases we do not know who the players really are.
Names of businesses do not always get to the person(s) calling the shots.

Take a look here
www.abovetopsecret.com...

it says we have bond maturing in Jan and Feb in Italy that economist are saying its going to be hard for Italy to pay them.

I think Jan and Feb are going to be the months of fireworks


Eather way, collapse is very very close

reply to post by camaro68ss

Eather way, collapse is very very close
edit on 1-12-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Sorry for butting in... I can not help but mentally add an "or".. and that is the bit that has me worried the most.. what they will think up next to avert disaster (for them in terms of control and for us in terms of what they'll think up)

Then again I might simply be paranoid thinking they'll never give up trying to avert a system reset.

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

Eather way, collapse is very very close
edit on 1-12-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

Sorry for butting in... I can not help but mentally add an "or".. and that is the bit that has me worried the most.. what they will think up next to avert disaster (for them in terms of control and for us in terms of what they'll think up)

Then again I might simply be paranoid thinking they'll never give up trying to avert a system reset.

The more shells they throw out there, the harder its going to be for them to remember where the ball is. at one point they will have to many balls in the air and ones going to drop, thats all its going to take. there are so many items in the air right now, i dont know how they keep track

reply to post by kushin


Try the Rockefellers, Rothschilds and the morgans.. Thats a good catch to start with.. These are the boys that pull the shots and own the central banks..
They own the banks, the money, the energy and the government and they are going for world domination...

They have an uncanny way to avert catastrophe, but cry wolf enough, people ignore when the wolf is really here to devour. I would say that based on the markets, the Mideast war posturing, the incompetence and gross negligence of Congress, the Chinese tensions and posturing for an economic trade war, the series of UFO/alien interaction in the media, the large transfers of physical gold, and other things; may indicate that the doom day is really on or about the 9th of December. If TPTB said it is a date, it is a red herring, it will be either a little early- to catch people off guard-, or later- to cause mass panic and a fake out on speculation.

My guess is on or about the 7th is a cyberterror attack, EU announces default on the 9th after US markets close, smart money exits Dec 15th dumping paper assets for real commodities and real estate during Euro crash cascade, worldwide crash happens on or about Jan 21 2012.

One thing is certain, they will need a universal external omni-malevolent force (alien invasion or WW III) to keep power for themselves and create a NWO.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
According to Morgan Stanley.

Fiscal Federalism Or Bust! Morgan Stanley Sees Dec 9th As Real European D-Day

His view that without a clear path to a fiscal lender of last resort - or a true fiscal federalism across a united Europe - which ensures solvent governments will never go illiquid, then the December 9th decisions mark a bifurcation point of critical import.

If governments choose to engage on the route to fiscal federalism, we believe that this does not mark the end of the crisis. It could, however, mark the beginning of the end of the crisis, as it would be a decisive first step towards stabilisation and a European federation. The alternative could well be the beginning of the end for the European confederation.

Europe has to choose between debt assumption (enhanced federal control of national budgets accompanied by centralised funding of governments) and a debt jubilee (wide-scale debt repudiation), with all the social, economic and political consequences this entails. Mares' framework for considering the words and deeds of December 9th is critical, though complex, reading to comprehend the tipping point we are at.

Two choices :
- Lose your sovereignty : that means that most of European countries budgets will be CONTROLLED by a central european body... which means that countries will lose their sovereignty... it's like the IMF taking over.

- Break up the euro or European countries defaulting : most banks in Europe go boom, destroying the European economy.

Either way this is gonna end badly.

What will it the elite choose? Me thinks they will choose concentration of power, losing of sovereignty... what the globalists have been after for decades. And this will create hell in the streets... possibly even revolutions and another war in Europe... which the elite would love too.

What Hitler couldn't do with tanks was done with banks. Congratulations Goldman Sachs.

edit on 1-12-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)

You mean theyre going to turn into the European United States. Wonderful! Now they won't be able to point the finger at us anymore for all the troubles in the world. See Europe, this is what you get for snubbing your noses at the U.S.! It comes back to bite you in the ass. Goodbye soverign countries, you are about to become states instead of countries. You get a front row seat to how we felt when our Federal government took away our states rights to govern themselves in the Civil War.

Were getting closer and closer to that One World Order the christians keep talking about. Yeah, now you see! Were not all gone completely crackers like you thought!

Third choice

Something happens from now until the 9th that extends the terror of the current economical situation even longer. That is the problem with giving a date to something like this, you just don't know what will happen from now until then.

reply to post by kushin

Everybody is blaming the Banks! Fair comment, But what about the players in these banks that have caused all this? Lets get their names out there, where they live, work, how they profited personally

Amen brother! Preach it! I want to vomit every time I listen to the supposedly liberal NPR and the analysts mention "The Market" as if it is it's own soveriegn entity rather then a collective of people behaving badly.

The federal reserve will bail out everyone. They have to, in order to keep countries from moving away from the US dollar. I don't see anything collapsing except the US dollar, so if You have some $, get rid of it.

Oh, that's just dandy. That's my wedding anniversary, and my husband is a stock market fanatic. He'll be going on and on about it over dinner and our intimate little evening will have all the romance of a board meeting.

Oh well, the Euro collapsing was bound to happen soon. Well see if the 9th is that date.

reply to post by Vitchilo

Vitchilo could you please run off some off the other players names apart from Golden Sachs, thanks in advance.

Why can't everyone just say : F*** the debt, we've all been screwed by them in the first place

The elite can lose all their power if they lose the people following them and protecting them.
If only we could open everyone's eyes and make them see how life is more than making money.

Like the devil, the only thing the elite can promise is earthly treasure...a total waste of time in my opinion.

"Boy when your dead, you don't keep nothing but your soul."