I'd like to ask this again. Do we have any members in the Herefordshire area who can confirm or deny the existance and/or of the Nanteos Cup? I'm just figuriing a "local touch" might have better luck.

Having read through this thread a few of my own questions on the subject of the grail have arisen and hopefully someone can clear them up for me.

Is there actually two grails?

Reason I ask this is that I have heard it referred to the cup from the last supper and also referred to as the cup used to catch the blood from jesus side after it was pierced by Longuinius (sp) spear.

When was the first documented referance to the grail?

Can't help but think the Grail lore only surfaced at the time of the crusades, so it may be no more than a huge propaganda drive by the church of the time to encourage european nobles to go and seek glory and fame and on the side dispose of a few "heathens" occupying the "holy" land.

Madadh, I've heard this story too. The tale goes that two cruets (vials now used for water and wine during Catholic Mass.) were used to collect his sweat, and his blood. There's also a tale of a third cruet used to collect his tears, but I've only found one mention of this, and that was in the Encyclopedia Britannica.

As far as "The Church" starting the legend to fire up recruits for its Crusades...well...I doubt it. Such a thing in the hands of English clergy might give them everything they need to break off from the Roman Church.

Also, note that it's the Royalty and secret societies of Europe who keep the Grail legend (whether it be a cup or a bloodline) in circulation. "The Church" keeps a rather hands-offish policy on the "cup theory" and discounts the "bloodline theory" completely, since the only real record they have for any of this is in apocryphal, not canonical texts.

It's more likely that the Nobles recognized the Middle East as a great jumpoff point to expand trade and make tons of money. Either that, or else they got tired of the Muslims already in Europe cutting off trade routes and of course pirating.


[edit on 23-3-2006 by Toelint]

[edit on 23-3-2006 by Toelint]

It's logical that Wales which was the legendary home territory of the Arthurian legends would have been associated with the Grail Cup, because after the Crucifixion, Joseph of Arimathea would have wanted to to put distance between himself and the confrontation-zones of "Romans vs. earliest Christians" so as one of the leading early Christian figures he wouldn't end up as lion food. As a Wealthy Tin merchant, he would have been aware of what parts of Britain (a primary Tin mining area) was outside the Roman spheres, and could have headed for Wales with the Cup on that basis.

Just for clarification.

Those who believe in the cup of valencia only consider the red porphory stone cup, not the jewel encrusted base - as the grail.

Before being vernerated it was a simple stone cup that could date from the time of jesus.

the holy grail is....


nowhere

it never existed

never has and never will

only evidence that can counter my statement is purely circumstancial

there is not one piece of evidence to support the existence of the holy grail.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the holy grail is....


nowhere

it never existed

never has and never will

only evidence that can counter my statement is purely circumstancial

there is not one piece of evidence to support the existence of the holy grail.

Is that mean there are 2 billions mad stupid dumb hipnotised Christians on earth?

Well, Madness, I guess that would depend on whethr or not you're willing to accept the Apochrypha as evidence. The "Grail as a bloodline" theorists certainly do. Aside from the disconneted facts found in their theories, where's their evidence?

In fact, where does the Grail bloodlline end? There's the question NOBODY seems willing to answer! Is anyone in favor of the "Grail as a bloodline" theory willing to call Prince William or Prince Henry a decendant of Jesus? If not, then they have to open themselves to the other options.

I agree with Cl888m Come on england!!

The lord of the Ring! My precious! ´There can be only one lord of the ring and he does not share power´Gandalf

Just a question, if I may:

Now, Jesus was crucified at the age of Thirty-Three (so they say.) My question is, what makes this cup so special?

Surely, by the time Jesus hit thirty-three, he drank from MANY cups, ate from MANY plates, washed with MANY sponges...ya see where I'm going??

Okay, it was the last cup he touched...but so what?

Originally posted by ToelintIs anyone in favor of the "Grail as a bloodline" theory willing to call Prince William or Prince Henry a decendant of Jesus?

I have no problem saying that they could be, maybe they are Jesus and Mary's descendents. What if they are? Does that make them better than the rest of us? As far as I have seen, royalty already consider that to be true, so it makes little difference to me. If they are, then they are far from alone. I have been reading books on the theory of a hidden royal bloodline for over twenty years. It is hard to claim I have seen proof of it, I can only say I have seen a large enough number of historical events and puzzling stories to be convinced that there is something to all the hub bub. I don't know what to make of it all, but the questions about Oak Island's Money Pit, Rennes Les Chateaux's secrets, the shroud of Turin, the Templars, Dagobert II, Rosslyn Chapel, Sinclair's 1395 Nova Scotia journey, Freemasonry's origins, symbols like the skull and bones, etc., have yet to be answered to my satisfaction. But I have my own theories as to the most likely chain of events, which are probably unique ones.
Nothing would surprise me, not even David Icke's Reptiloid overlords... though I am not yet swayed as to their existence. I also have not seen any proof of a current Illuminati running things. Certainly those in power work together to stay that way, who wouldn't? But is that really something shocking, a crazy conspiracy, or just an understandable collusion to retain power?
The Holy Grail, imo, is not a cup, but it has been portrayed as one in Arthurian legend, etc. so as not to arouse interest from those who might seek to destroy it, whatever it may be. Where is it? Even if I knew, would I tell you? I doubt it. But I don't know, and I have yet to read of anyone who does, 'know'.

Originally posted by cl888

.....

there is not one piece of evidence to support the existence of the holy grail.

Is that mean there are 2 billions mad stupid dumb hipnotised Christians on earth?

Well that's a matter of opinion; however it has nothing to do with whether the "holy grail" exists. The grail was a 12th century invention and there was no mention of it before. It is never mentioned in the Bible and I am quite sure you can sincerley believe in a Christian God, Jesus and the Virgin Mary etc without having to believe a magic cup (or whatever it is meant to be).


[edit on 2/5/06 by FatherLukeDuke]

I was just reading a site that proported to translate the Kensington Rune Stone, and that it involved a mention of the Grail.

Well, Nygdan, here's the best translation of the Kensington Rune Stone...just so ya know...okay?

Front: 8 Goths (Swedes) and 22 Norwegians on a voyage of discovery from Vinland (of) the West. We had a camp by 2 skerries one day journey north from this stone. We were out fishing one day. After we came home we found 10 men red with blood and dead. AVM (Ave Virgin Mary) save (us) from evil.

Side: (We) have 10 men of (ours) by the sea to look after our ships 14 day journeys north from this island. Year 1362

Have fun!