Help Form An International Employee Owned Company Designed For The Profit And Benefit Of All - inclu

i haven't read the thread but you might want to read this book called The Molecular Business. Some good insight to creating a new more fair sustainable business model IMO...

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This company currently needs many different assets. The following positions are currently open: Web developers, Purchasing agents, Sales and Marketing, Investors, Attorneys... Please contact me via U2U with inquiries if you have interest in any specific position or do not wish to post your qualifications publicly. There is more to this than has been divulged publicly. This is a valid attempt to launch a large viable company. I have previously secured a one billion dollar letter of credit for a business venture. Hopefully you will realize the sincerity of my dedication to the fulfillment of this endeavour by that statement alone. ( I have also met both Bill Gates and Steve Case on seperate occasions if that lends me any credibility? )

There are many co-operatives in Britain.. the largest is the Co-operative Group that has a turnover of around £10bn 5000 shops/supermarkets is the largest farmer in Britain and even has their own political party.

The Co-operative Group Ltd. is a United Kingdom consumer cooperative with a diverse range of business interests. It is co-operatively run and owned by its members. It is the largest organisation of this type in the world, with over 5.5 million members, who all have a say in how the business is run and how its social goals are achieved. The group comprises a family of businesses, including: Food, Travel, Financial Services, Healthcare, Funeral care, Legal Services, Motors and Online Electricals.
en.wikipedia.org...

So going by that example (tho it is probably too center left for most) it certainly is not an impossible dream and I really hope it works out well

wishing you all the best

My initial thoughts on this are very positive, I wish you success and hope you can bring what seems to be an already well thought out concept (if I am reading correctly between the lines) to fruition.

To my mind one way to ensure the business commences on a strong footing is to focus on one market sector/product and ensure all the ancillary requirements of day to day commerce: sales/marketing, logistics, company structure (charities pay no corporation tax in the UK for example) etc etc are in place and work. At this point it will be simple to streamline new products and services in.

A danger I can identify immediately is akin to the OWS movement that is occupying the area outside St Paul's Cathedral in London which has no identifiable leader, it would be a hideous mistake to have to make every small decision by committee. If the company comes to reality it MUST have a strong identifiable figurehead, if nothing else for the media to latch on to.

In terms of the corporation itself, as mentioned above charitable status has many benefits in this day and age, even registering as a religion in the states might sound crazy, but the Scientologists have successfully avoided taxation for years and seemingly all they do is sell books and pamphlets to vulnerable people to generate revenue (I know I am being glib!). I am certainly not advocating that we rip people off, more encouraging that we use the established systems readily available globally to set the business on the strongest footing possible. There is no reason a set of ideals could not translate into a 'set of beliefs' and be presented as a religious movement. It is an area that needs specific and comprehensive examination prior to commencement of the movement to maximise the final output in both dollars and the contribution of the individual. (another example is an Industrial and Provident Society where the members of the society have equal shares and voting rights, again this is a UK form of legal entity for corporations and may or may not have global equivalents.)

In terms of an altruistic project that has had mixed success I can give the example of myfootballclub 'The world's first web community owned football club'. They set out to smash through the modern day models for ownership of football/soccer teams in the UK and base the club on an international basis by recruiting members who pay a small annual fee ($50 approx.) to be a member and this in turn garners them full voting rights on every aspect of the community. I followed the project from its inception when many thousands worldwide signed up and have seen it go through various stages of development, there are definite lessons to be learned from them; predominantly that is how to balance the need for day to day management of a business entity with the altruistic and inclusive nature of one member one vote.

There have been times when they have got so bogged down with the minutiae of banal detail (what colour socks the team should wear!) that decisions just simply could not be made. Also because of the reality of being involved in daily decisions and the fact that this simply is not good fun a LOT of original members quickly left the project. A risk here would be that many thousands of people initially get involved and become disenchanted and leave, reducing our ability to function at a preferred level and in some areas potentially devastating certain products, innovations or even something as crucial as legal representation....

There are certainly lessons to be learned and to my mind this whole essence of structure is the most crucial of all.

On a lighter note, a potential product to trial could be a 'skills exchange' ?!? It would allow people to tender their time and abilities either pro bono or for a fee to allow us to firm up the structure and company model with a live product - I know, I know, structure again! I seem to have been bending your ears about this for my whole wall of text

Anyway good luck and I have pm'ed you.

A lot start with good intent. but then go bad.
you would have to work hard to stop the ones at the top
embezzling and selling out to other companies.

you would need cctv on all goods in and out.
nothing would go bad for the first 5 years.
then as you get to big !

it is human nature to hunt for them selves.
greed takes over.
its like a pride of lions.
the top one eats all he won't and the next down gets the rest.
to pass it down. until the workers get scraps.

ever one should get the same pay.
but those at the top are good with propaganda.
they make you believe any thing they say.
that's how they get the jog in the first place.

you have to fined a fair way that can not be abused.

Originally posted by buddha


you have to fined a fair way that can not be abused.

The sentiment is correct, the reality is perhaps that there will be abuse of any system and any corporation, as you have said 'human nature' makes this reality. The trick is to minimise the impact of such abuse, usually achieved via accountability and cross overs of the roles and responsibilities of employees . A determined individual will however find a way to corrupt themselves to achieve their goals!

Trust with accountability is my preferred way of operating

great idea. i've got some good ideas that might help but need to get some shut eye will be back tomorrow.

reply to post by ANOK

Sorry, I guess I should have given the example with my text. The Co-Op Group of the UK.
Executive renumeration

They are still a co-op but pay very good "wages" to their top executives. I could be missing something but this sounds very corporate to me, while supposedly still having the social goal of lower prices and profit sharing for the customers.

en.wikipedia.org...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Statement on the Co-operative Identity, promulgated by the International Co-operative Alliance (ICA), defines and guides co-operatives worldwide. It contains the definition of a co-operative as a special form of organization, the values of co-operatives, and the currently accepted cooperative principles that direct their behavior and operation. The Statement with the latest revision of the cooperative principles was adopted by ICA in 1995.

According to the Statement, a co-operative is defined as "an autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through a jointly owned and democratically controlled enterprise." Co-operatives "are based on the values of self-help, self-responsibility, democracy, equality, equity and solidarity. In the tradition of co-operative founders, co-operative members believe in the ethical values of honesty, openness, social responsibility and caring for others."

So, should we then create something similar to a Co-operative but on a Global scale with profit for it's members being one of it's primary goals?

reply to post by CaptainKostr


If it is your intention to create profits for the benefits of each individual then a co-op is certainly a strong contender, a good resource for more info is: set up a co op and in particular there is a guide here.

EDIT: Forgot to say this is a UK guide but the principles must be the same throughout the world - hopefully

and from wikipedia Poptech

PopTech (also known as Pop!Tech) is a nonprofit open innovation laboratory and network of thought leaders who are dedicated to finding, incubating and accelerating ideas, people and projects that change the world. PopTech consists of a global community of cutting-edge leaders, thinkers, and doers from many different disciplines, who come together to explore the social impact of new technologies, the forces of change shaping the future, and new approaches to solving the world’s most significant challenges.

they are a cooperative and have a global outlook, more interesting reading.

Please Note:
One of the many goals of this discussion is the actual implementation of these idea's. The formation of this organization will hopefully employ billions of people worldwide. Those who wish to participate in the fruition of this organization will be given opportunity to become owners for your efforts. This is a real ground floor opportunity to become part of something truly worthy that will change our world.

For those wondering: My role and intention here is not to become the head of a multinational company. I wish to be employed by this company. I will disclose all information and assets gathered privately from this discussion to those who wish to participate in it's realization once we have a winning business model. No private information obtained through ATS U2U personal messages will be released without prior consent. This is indeed not my business, and my idea's should not be given any more weight than anyone elses.

Suggestion:
As to the question's of what should or will we produce first? This should really be discussed as a group once we have obtained what we believe is a viable business model. We wouldn't want to give our idea's to the competition before the game has even started would we?

I have several unique concepts that will allow extremely innovative idea's and thus large profits to flourish once we have a working business model. I will of course share that information with those who follow this discussion through to it's logical conclusion - the beginning of a new business. Because this is a company owned by the people, of course my idea's are no better than anyone elses and would of course need approval by the group.

Whew, I'm up way past my bed time so please forgive me if I have rambled. I'm in the U.S. and it's 10:43 a.m. and I haven't been to sleep yet.

Originally posted by coldkidc
reply to post by theovermensch

 

It would have to be non-profit and absolutely no investment of the funds in the community pool...to nip it in the bud accounts would have to be fixed funds - not even any interest (that's how it starts...)

Why?

Just because it's worker controlled they can't make profit?

Nonsense, there are many worker ran businesses that make profit, very successfully. And guess what? The workers get to share the profit.

The MONDRAGON Corporation is a corporation and federation of worker cooperatives based in the Basque region of Spain. Founded in the town of Mondragón in 1956, its origin is linked to the activity of a modest technical college and a small workshop producing paraffin heaters. Currently it is the seventh largest Spanish company in terms of asset turnover and the leading business group in the Basque Country. At the end of 2010 it was providing employment for 83,859 people working in 256 companies in four areas of activity: Finance, Industry, Retail and Knowledge. The MONDRAGON Co-operatives operate in accordance with a business model based on People and the Sovereignty of Labour, which has made it possible to develop highly participative companies rooted in solidarity, with a strong social dimension but without neglecting business excellence. The Co-operatives are owned by their worker-members and power is based on the principle of one person, one vote.

secure.wikimedia.org...

Are employee-owned companies more successful than traditional businesses?

The Employee Ownership Association

Socialism can work, you just have to learn what is actually is, not the propaganda that you've been fed.

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
reply to post by ANOK

 

Sorry, I guess I should have given the example with my text. The Co-Op Group of the UK.
Executive renumeration

They are still a co-op but pay very good "wages" to their top executives. I could be missing something but this sounds very corporate to me, while supposedly still having the social goal of lower prices and profit sharing for the customers.

edit on 1/12/11 by LightSpeedDriver because: Typo

Not sure if that is a truly worker owned cooperative, or just private companies cooperating, yes like a corporation.
I'll have to look into it more.

Well, i am quite interested.

This seems like a positive movement. I hope that this become very successful, and creating a business model is a very important step, but you do need to have a focused group of individuals first.

The complexity of the undertaking is not simple.
I don't want to get to far ahead of the idea so I will put some thought into the subject.

A Highly Profitable - Global Co-operative - Owned, Operated and Controlled by it's members equally? So far this sounds Great! If you're interested, now is not the time to be shy! Providing those interested are serious, this will become a reality relatively shortly.

Skills...
I'm Happy to report that we have recieved messages from a number of different people on multiple continents interested in participating in this venture. The parties interested possess skills seemingly equal to the task. However, we need more people! A wide variety of skills will be needed - what can you bring to the table? If you are unable to use ATS's U2U to send a message, please feel free to make contact via [email protected]

Our skills combined will make this happen!

Hey Cap, take the Social Enterprise questionnaire here;
I did.

In doing so I make the first structure proposal based upon the following definition:

An autonomous association of persons united voluntarily to meet their common economic, social, and cultural needs and aspirations through a jointly-owned and democratically-controlled enterprise.

This fits the bill and I believe it can be the only legal structure entered into on the basis that the intended corporation and its resulting profits are for the benefit of the employees. But....... we all know George Orwell, if this sort of enterprise is created, traditionally some animals are more equal than others. It would have to be discussed whether dividends are truly equal shares of the financial pot or like John Lewis a retailer in the UK a percentage of salary is paid as a dividend. This means all parties benefit and do so in line with their pay grade, John Lewis traditionally pays its staff their 'dividend' in March and it has ranged from 8 to 22% of annual salary. I like this scenario for financial reward as it means everybody benefits and you would not have people who worked a low paid job receiving an out of proportion bonus (to their salary) and leaving the company.

The issue I have with the model in the company above is that there is no true one share one vote, all 'lower level' meetings and decisions are claimed by an ex employee to be senior management paying 'lipservice' to the grunts. All topics of discussion are SMT defined and any true innovation is not allowed to foster support by the mere fact it cant actually be discussed.

I mentioned earlier the other extreme of this type of mutual with myfootballclub.co.uk where every decision is/was belaboured and results in crushing slowness to act. There must be a middle ground and it is quite possible to achieve it with like minded souls trying to achieve the same goals. I think therefore:

1. A CO-OP must be established
2. A constitution must be established by the 'founding fathers' that irrevocably sets the principles of the CO-OP and is next to impossible to alter for future generations. This must contain all definitions of areas of responsibility for the CEO in particular when and where he must take only advice from the members votes, when and where he must adhere to the specific results of a members vote etc etc
3. A charitable wing of the CO-OP to be established with 5% of annual profits to be dispersed to charities that members nominate with actual financial distribution based upon exact and precise Proportional Representation of votes by employees. Also to run at zero charge to the charity.
4. Set schedule for quantity and frequency of dividend to employees and whether this is as an exact 'one share one equal dividend share' or rather as a percentage of annual salary.
5. Define precisely any membership costs.
6. Define termination of 'employee' status, define commencement of such status e.g 3 month trial needed etc etc

Ok, agree or disagree, but add, alter or review as you see fit . Lets start the conversation.

reply to post by spacedonk


Nice start. Good general guidelines for now.

I will work on some idea of products, just generally so we can get an Idea.
There are areas that this type of movement could move into more easily than others.

The internet gives it a good advantage, as being established on.

I am under the idea it will be more of an umbrella, covering different areas.

Software and technology seems natural, but there are complications.
Also to consider is a content business. Alot of the skills necissary would seem to be more available.

As for a product business, distribution channels might be a problem, but they can be worked with.

Service business seems to be the least viable for this type of group. It can almost be ruled out, because of the global nature.

I think when there are more people the areas of strongest start-up can be assest.

It is very important to start strong. I cannot stress that enough.
It is understood that alot of companies lose money in the first year(s), but it important to get the capital flowing, when it starts.


Creating a strong core will make the rest easier. Just some thoughts to consider.

I was also wondering, is this "exclusively" ats members ??

I am unclear on that. I think there is lots of possibilities, will check back tommorow.

Originally posted by KingAtlas
I was also wondering, is this "exclusively" ats members ??

I am unclear on that. I think there is lots of possibilities, will check back tommorow.

My greatest hope is that everyone in the world will join in this, and that it be worthy of joining.

ATS is full of "outside the box" thinkers, willing to push for the truth and deny Ignorance. I couldn't find a better place to start something like this. Here we have a large multinational group of free thinkers ranging in age and gender. We have such a wide range of skills here that we can provide valuable insight into virtually anything.

******* Please note *******
As no opposition has been presented we will hereby and henceforth be known as a Cooperative.