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Calling Out Jewish and Christians- Please Answer ONE Question

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posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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First off ive never seen a question truly answered here at ATS. There will allways be someone trying to debate even the most simple of things. But let me answer your question with a question. Would god condemn me to hell simply because of what region of the world I was born in? I was born in Texas and raised as a methodist christian. Im not sure what methodist means but so it has been. What would happen if I was born in a muslim country and my parents raised me to be muslim? Would god cast me out simply because where I was born and followed the teachings of my parents like every child does?
Someone will probally debate this statement quoting something from the bible that says his word will spread all over the world before the end of time. Well muslims certainly have heard of christians since its the 2nd largest population (muslims being 1st). But their origins do not teach them to embrace it.

I cant see a creator casting some forrest pygmies into hell because they never heard of jesus/ mohammed/ or waiting for the 2nd return of christ. Why would a loving creator condemn those to eternal suffering because they were born in the wrong geological location. Does that make any sense?
edit on 1-12-2011 by Foxy1 because: spelling

edit on 1-12-2011 by Foxy1 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by AllUrChips
 



Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet.


Dont know if somebody else pointed this out by now, but.....
Jews dont even consider Jesus as a prophet.


That's what I'm saying sk0rpi0n - he doesn't have a learned base to debate from. Just set-in-stone uneducated opinions and no desire to learn from those who have been educated / educated themselves on the subject.

He could choose "none of the above" based on study, but instead loosely bases his opinion on various factors unrelated to an educated stance. For instance being "forced to go to Church", where simple logic says he was to young to be left at home alone. He chooses to look at it as "forced to go".

It's useless to have a deep debate with that type of logic, where opinions are set-in-stone void of simple logic and without a solid base to debate from.

Of course it's a personal matter / opinion - so I suppose a persons opinion is true for them. Just like mine for me - but if the logic breaks down out of context, the question's based on an unknown result, and the stance is loosely tied together with obvious non-existent facts (Jew's believe Christ was a Prophet) - then it's hardly worth debating.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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This is an eternal question pondered and debated by some of the greatest minds throughout history. But not by me, until now. So here it goes.........
It see only one way to resolve it!

Gladiator style! or more true to modern times I reference the greatest of all futuristic movies of all times EVER in the whole universe, even the universes in other demensions.....

Excape from New York!!! The John Carpenter masterpiece.

Let the Christians and Jews battle it out with nail studded ball bats and metal trash can lids

Since both factions recognize the same God it will be sanctified and results ordained


Another problem solved!!! Thank you ! NEXT!



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Pearj
 



Here's some information from the Chosen People Ministries:

Messianic Congregations FAQ

chosenpeople.com...

"How is a Messianic congregation different from a synagogue?"

"Just as there are many kind of synagogues that may differ significantly from one another, the same may also be said about Messianic congregations. However, the overarching difference between mainstream synagogues and Messianic congregations is that Messianic congregations consider the New Testament to be revealed Scripture along with the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament). Therefore, Messianic congregations consider Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah to be fulfillment of the prophecies of the Hebrew Bible, which mainstream synagogues do not."

edit on 1-12-2011 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Neither and Both are right. Religions were original put here for control and limiting our choices. I think that Jesus was a real person with really good ideas, and possibly "star touched" more activated DNA and therefore more in touch with his spiritual side. The message that he was trying to relay got twisted and is the "christian" religion we have today; although slanted in a specific direction. Can't really speak about the Jewish religion, although they have "kinda" the same book, just with more chapters, books, and slanted in another particular direction. Even Muslims have another book that has some of the same stories as the "christian" book.

All of these religions have both good points and bad points.

I don't subscribe to any religion or cultus, or rather try to take the good of all religions and try to toss out the nonsense.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by AllUrChips
So I have a question for you christians or people of any religion(just figured mostly christians on here) that I even stumped a pastor with. Its not that hard of a question either. WHO is right? Which of your religions are right? The christians say that you must accept jesus christ as your lord and savior to go to heaven. Jesus is the SON of GOD according to christianity. Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet. NOW, Im no expert, but if the jews are the "chosen" ones, and they actually LIVE in the "holy land", then who is right? Are the jews not going to heaven because they do not believe that jesus was the son and died for their sins? Are the christians wrong, and Yeshua(translated to joshua) is the son? And those are just the two main religions, thats doesnt even include muslims and allah! So that is my question, WHO IS RIGHT? Jews or christians.
edit on 30-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)
I don't see how this question stumped anybody. It is very simple. The truth of Jesus is spiritually hidden from the Jews until the time of the Gentiles is through. When Jesus returns, the spiritual blindness will fall away "as scales from their eyes" and they will see him whom they pierced and they will know the truth.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by AllUrChips
 

QUOTE (Im pretty sure your dodging the QUESTION I asked. Just like all christians do when asked this.) END QUOTE

"Just like all Christians do"??????

TROLL ALERT! TROLL ALERT!
edit on 1-12-2011 by RealAmericanPatriot because: Quote inserted for clarity sake.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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This is how I see it and what I've come to believe. At first in the Old Testament the Jewish people we're the chosen. After Jesus's death on the cross and ressurection however this paved the way for people of all creeds to be saved. I do believe that you have to accept Jesus and through him get to God. As for the Jewish and Muslim faiths I just dont know where they will end up. I always hope that the good ones will get to go to Heaven and be with God.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by Reprobation
reply to post by AllUrChips
 


Jews and Christians aren't the two "main religions" - Islam has more adherents than Judaism. And Muslims believe that Islam existed before Judaism and Christianity


Judaism 3,000 years ago
Christianity 2,000 years ago
Islam 1,400 years ago

Your statement is a religious one, the above timeline is what history has recorded give or take a few hundred years. According to some Christian religions Adam was Christian, how about that.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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Christ, himself, stated his Sonship. Either he was telling the truth OR he was a false prophet... He CANNOT merely be a good prophet...

...and the only Old Testament prophecies he hasn't fulfilled are the ones he will fulfill very shortly...

...and the trouble that is about to come on Israel will eventually open their eyes to the Messiah...



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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Im sorry your not finding the answers you seek, maybe you are asking the wrong questions to the wrong people.
Before men had boats and written language; before east met west, each continent believed in a higher power. maybe if I knew more about the universe and had more knowledge I would know why this is. But it is the one thing we all have in common as a people. I cant see god showing his face to each culture through their cultures eyes and saying one is wrong and one is right.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by AllUrChips
 


Judaism is the foundation of Christianity.

This time we live in the Word refers to as the "Time of the Gentiles". Most of the prophets and the Book of Revelation points to a future time of conversion and recognition of the Messiah for the Jewish people.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Foxy1
 


God doesn't condemn anyone to hell. People condemn themselves. Sin is what gets you a one way ticket to hell, it doesn't matter where you were born or what you were taught. That is why everyone is in need of God's forgiveness, because we have ALL sinned.

To answer the OPs non question:

Zech 12:9-10

9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn


Jesus is saying (yes from the old testament, despite the worn out argument "God of the old testament is mean blah blah blah..." God is the same, He never changes. Read Revelation, the "new testament God" kills way more people) that the nation of Israel will turn to Him and mourn for their rejection. Are you sure you asked a pastor, and not a kid in Sunday school? (Unless you asked Joel Osteen, or some other tv evangelist, then its understandable)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by Razimus
 


Davids Kingdom was a thousand years before Christianity. Judaism i.e. the siniatic revelation, is 3400 years ago.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by Nocheechako
 


You guys are still going on with this dogma?

I can tell you one thing.: Jews will NEVER convert, to either Christianity, or Islam. 2000 years of resistance, and 1200 years of resistance, to Christianity and Islam, while developing and honing their own spiritual tradition, should be ample proof of that.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by grubblesnert
This is an eternal question pondered and debated by some of the greatest minds throughout history. But not by me, until now. So here it goes.........
It see only one way to resolve it!

Gladiator style! or more true to modern times I reference the greatest of all futuristic movies of all times EVER in the whole universe, even the universes in other demensions.....

Excape from New York!!! The John Carpenter masterpiece.

Let the Christians and Jews battle it out with nail studded ball bats and metal trash can lids

Since both factions recognize the same God it will be sanctified and results ordained


Another problem solved!!! Thank you ! NEXT!


Indeed

Not a single problem in life that cannot be solved with a lump of wood with nails in.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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Well, the answer to this question is actually laid out in the Book of Romans. Because I don't have a Bible in front of me, I'm going to paraphrase the argument that is laid down there, and you're more than welcome to go back and confirm it for yourself.

This is what is said. The Jews are the chosen people of God, and that the Savior was made for them and given to them as a gift. However, the Jews then rejected this gift and so God gave it to the Gentiles (read today: Christians). It says then that the gift, once established inside of the Gentiles will then be given back to the Jews through the good mercy found there so that all might be saved. Then Paul sums it up by saying something to the effect of this being the genius of God, and isn't it marvelous to our eyes.

So, God wants both Jew and Gentile to receive the gift of His mercy and know salvation. Therefore the Jews had to reject Christ so that the Gentiles might be given the opportunity to receive Him. Jesus is still made for the Jews, it's the order that became jumbled.

One last parable of this, and then I'll stop, but it's the parable of the wedding supper. A master throws a great supper (Christ) for all the great people of the lands (Jews), but none accept his invitation. So, he sends his servants (prophets, apostles, saints) out into the streets to gather up all the people that are left (Gentiles) and have them come to this supper to which they never would have otherwise been invited. This parable from the Bible describes how the gift was rejected and passed. The Book of Romans completes the thought by describing how it will be re-established inside of Israel.

Peace...



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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It's hard to accept that Jews, in the physical sense, are still God's "chosen" people, when they:
1. No longer worship at the Temple.
2. no longer have a High Priest or priestly class from the tribe of Levi.
3. No longer have a King from the line of David.

These are the very things that defined their covenant relationship with YHWH
Israel is now just a secular state.

If you believe the New Testament, then you may conclude that references to "Spiritual Israel" refer to a new nation whose citizenship no longer depends on circumcision or having descended from the line of Jacob. This new nation now holds the chosen position that the fleshly nation of Israel once enjoyed. It is open to people of all races who accept Jesus as the designated King of God's Kingdom.
Or you may not.

In the words of Forest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that".



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Certainly you don't think the Jewish people are going to get on here and say that the Christians are right, nor are the Christians going to come here and say the Jews are right. So I don't understand the purpose of the thread. As a Christian I recognize that the Jews were once the chosen race of God, and I also believe that there will come a point in time that there will be a mass Jewish conversion to Christianity.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by AllUrChips
 

Jews were God's chosen people until they kept disobeying God, & ultimately killed his son. Both Jesus & God told us who they were, & God said at Jesus' baptism, 'This is my Son, listen to him'. Jews stopped using God's name when God rejected them, ( it was deemed sinful to use it) as they had rejected Jesus. Jews who accept Jesus are right, Christian's who are obedient to the law are right. The Koran misleads Muslims, because where it doesn't agree with the Bible, the Koran, while written by a man, takes precedence. God warned against adding to the Bible. Muslims & Christian's know that God's acceptable name is Jehovah. (YHWH) & the Bible promises life on a paradise earth, as was given to Adam & Eve. It doesn't say that we will all go to Heaven. The Earth was created to be inhabited, & humans are Earthly creatures, not heavenly beings. 'the meek shall inherit the earth'. The meek are the humans who want God's kingdom with Jesus Christ as king..All who worship God with spirit(an attitude mindful of what God requires from them) are acceptable to God. God commanded 'Thou shalt not kill,' so all those professing God & Jesus, but who kill, are not worshiping God in spirit. To love God is to be obedient. Allah is a word for God. It is not his name. Religion is not good, but God is. They don't go hand in hand if lies like eternal torment are taught. God invites everyone to get to know him, but often, those who search are not taught what is in the Bible. People can understand it if they look themselves. God made a new covenant with man when Jesus died, & Jesus said 'love one another', instead of 'an eye for an eye'. God loves ALL of us who make effort to learn about him. & do as he requires. A special few will go to heaven, but most of us have a earthly hope if we at least try to obey. & God knows we are just humans, & that it is hard in this day & age, but He hasn't abandoned us, we have abandoned him. He will undo all the badness we suffer, & bring peace to the earth. Hope this helps. There is one God, but we have been divided by religion as a means to control. Keep us fighting amongst ourselves, then we prove we need control. Then police states arise, like America right now... God promises to end it for all of us, The Jews lost their favored position, & the Christian congregation was formed from the blood sacrifice of Jesus, inviting gentiles, & people of every faith to come into a special relationship with him instead of the Jews, unless they accepted Jesus.He died, so that we could live forever, as Adam & Eve were meant to pass on to us... Adam was perfect, he lost that, but Jesus kept his perfection until he died. That was the point of him dying. So he could pass on perfect life to all those who had faith in what he did... & that was to die telling us who he was, & Gods name, & how to worship him..



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