Calling Out Jewish and Christians- Please Answer ONE Question

Originally posted by Raivan31

Originally posted by OneNationUnder
Each religion is right. Each religion is wrong.

I love reading how some bash Christians and some bash Jews --those have no clue where they are in Spiritual Development. Then there are those who say there is no God, or religion and that is the easy way out and the lowest point in our Spiritual Development. They have a long way to go.

Each religion is right and wrong. God puts us on a journey here on earth where He thinks we need the most help to further advance in Heaven. We choose to come here and we need to learn all we can while here as there is no such thing as reincarnation. This belief is part of the lowest form of Spiritual Development as it aids in the "If I don't get it right this time, there'll always be another time" teaching, and that is wrong and actually part of Satan's teaching. On Judgement Day our bodies are reunited with our souls. If there was reincarnation, which body would our soul be united with?

I'd start with the religion you feel the closest to because that's probably where God is guiding you. Be careful not to heed the call of Society but listen to the call of your Conscience.

Wowzers! contradict yourself much?

You start by saying that god puts us where we need to be to further our spiritual development and you also add that no religion is right or wrong and then follow all of that up by stating that reincarnation is not real, reincarnation is a part of certain religions.

You've proven yourself as a 'basher'.

Seems you've a way to go to learn a bit of humility. Your attitude would be closer to what most people consider to be satan.

I shouldn't have been so smug about this, i know but at least i got the message across.

I would HATE to have this body for all eternity!! How about the developmentally disabled with horrific disfigurements?? Your saying they must keep those bodies for eternity? That sounds like hell to me!

Originally posted by FrankieNinja
reply to post by WhoDat09

 

And you call yourself a Catholic? Heck, Im NOT Catholic but if I were, and stated what you just did, well, that would just make me NON CHRISTIAN by definition because you do not believe in "Christ"

No he said he was raised Catholic....Not a catholic now....

reply to post by rogerstigers

Which Scripture?

All of them, then make the choice that makes sense to you. How else would a person with a brain make this choice. I mean inheritance is no way to choose a religion, is it? Oh... Apologies to the majority out there. But do y'all get the point?

Personally my favorite is the Upanishads. Least confusing of the scriptures anyway, at least to my mind

Well, I'll answer the Question.

Christ said he was the only way to the father and salvation. So I am going to say Christianity is right.

I won't claim to know the plans or the mind of God, but Christ is pretty clear in this.

my 2 cents.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Wow! TWO pages so far and you are the ONLY one who has answered the question!!!!! I wish I could flag you, thanks for passing the reading comprehension test

If I may...

Your question is something like asking, "Some say traffic lights are red, some say green, and others say amber-- Who is right?"

Are you not satisfied that it may be all three? Is that "dodging the question?"

Is the only answer you will accept an answer which is one of dissension among the religious?

I posted along those lines, but an answer of dissension is the answer that seems to grab your interest-- and speaks to the point you are trying to make. So, how about going out on a limb yourself-- and make your point clear?

In other words, if you are seeking to start a fight, climb into the ring; and if you are not trying to start a fight, consider that several posts have have expressed the answer requires restating the question. That answer, then, falls on you to change you assumptions.

this is a red herring meant only to foment division and strife among common peoples.
Your issue should not be about causing divisions but in uniting through a common cause, i.e., sin and what it does to a person and society.

Here is a story about Wilbur Webster White as told by his students while White was working under the Y.M.C.A. in India while working with Hindu students.
One day a young Hindo said " I cannot understand why you Christians are aleways claiming that there is only one way to be saved and only one." He was thinking of course about Hindu, The Buddhist and the Mohammaden way of life. Then he added "What difference does it make, for instance, how I get to the second floor of this house; whether I go up the staircase, or take the lift, or climb up a ladder and come in through a window?" At first" said Dr. White "I could think of no adequate reply. Then it came in a flash: "There is only one way to get to the second floor of this house, and that is to overcome gravity!' "

You should spend more time contemplating your own issues with sin and overcoming the difficulties that exist in your life as a result and less of drumming up useless args to divide those you disagree with and seek more common reasons to come together as a people to overcome them through spiritual guidance in the "gravity" you encounter in being a divider and not a peacemaker, eh?

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's etc... They're all wrong!

Anyone with half a brain knows that the universe rides on the back of a giant celestial squid called Trevor.

IRM

Poppycock!

The correct answer is of course four elephants and a gigantic turtle

reply to post by AllUrChips


Thing is - after Jesus was born, it was free game for belief after he stated the truth. Jews are held accountable to his words just as much as Christians. The chosen people existed in the old testament. Now we are all equal in the eyes of God and we all need to come to him the same way.

If you stumped a pastor with that easy question he must have not been very well educated with the Bible.

Both Jews & Christians to a certain extent are right, the truth will be seen by the modern day world as just an opinion though, so there is no way to 'prove', as you can easily prove false things using the Bible if you are good enough with twisting the meaning the way you want.

Judeo-Christians is basically the short answer.

Jesus was Judeo-Christian, his followers were Judeo-Christian, modern day Christian groups that know nothing of the Jewish religion also know little of Jesus. The Jews were given a promise by God that they would be protected, tithed, that 1/10th of them would always survive, which is why the devil always attempts to wipe them off the face of the earth (in an attempt to make God a liar), because God cannot lie the Jews will always survive. Taking in the true teachings that God taught the Jewish people combined with what Jesus taught after he established his church is where Christians logically should be, but many supposed Christians have drifted away, who's to say who is right and who is wrong, because I do not believe you need to commune using a priest I would say you should ask the Master of the universe the question yourself, the Creator of the universe alone can help and show you if you just ask, and no you do not need to ask in a specific fashion, you don't need to recite a wrote prayer, just ask from your heart a yes or no question, if you ask a vague question don't be surprised if you get a vague answer.

Direct answer to OP question:

The Jews were right, in that they were the "oracles" of God who were chosen to deliver the words of God to men. The purpose of the word was to reveal the coming of His Son, and to show the futility of man's efforts to be perfect and righteous. In their writings, we see the most righteous man (Job), the wisest man (Solomon), the strongest man (Samson), the most innocent man (Adam), etc. all failing to attain perfection and falling to sin and temptation. In the symbology of the Bible, such as the Ark of the Covenant, we see the shadows of things to come in Jesus, which is the solution to the problem of man's falling short. All men die, which is the first indication you have of all men being born in sin due to the fall of Adam. This corrupted body and spirit are not the same as that of Adam. In Genesis 5 we see that we are made in the image of Adam, not God. That image of Adam is the fallen one, not the original one that was made in the image and likeness of God. Hence, our fallen state would condemn us to eternal death without a redeemer.

The second part of the plan is to bring God Himself to Earth in the person of Jesus Christ, one of the Trinity. Only God could be perfect in obedience, and only God could be used as an infinite sacrifice to give eternal life to all men.

Therefore, the Jews are correct in the planning phase, and the Jews had of themselves a Jew named Jesus who brought them salvation. He came to the Jews first, but they would not believe Him in large part. Therefore, He said the first (the Jews) shall be last (last to be believers as a group in the last days) and the last (the Gentiles, who were going to find out about Jesus late in the account) would be first (the first to be accepting the new gospel of Jesus Christ).

The life of Jesus also demonstrated the futility of man to follow the commandments. He made it plainly clear to us when He told us, for example, that if you even look upon a woman to lust after her you are committing adultery. If you even hate your brother in your heart you have committed murder. If you have sinned in the least amount, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. The Jews in Isaiah noted that all of our righteousness is as filthy rags.

The Jews did not recognize that Jesus was their Messiah, even though He fulfilled 333 predictive prophecies given to the Jews in their writings to that time. The odds of fulfilling all of these prophecies is statistically impossible, according to the science of statistics, and yet He fulfilled them all so that we would know that He is the Christ, the Son of God, and is our redeemer. The Jews believed that you must follow the law to the letter to be given a chance to enter into heaven. Jesus pointed out to them that they had not done that, and that He was here to take care of their sins Himself.

Considering all these circumstances and facts, we can see that Jesus was the fulfillment of the law of the Jews, and is their redeemer.

The question you have asked, and the stumblingblock that many have, is "How can I be saved if I don't know Jesus" essentially. It matters not if you are a cannibal in S. America, a Jew in Israel, an atheist in Russia, or a Buddhist in Thailand, God will determine your salvation. You are judged according to the law that you have received, and the way you live your life. Additionally, there is evidence that God will teach you these things after this life (I Peter) and give you another opportunity to accept or reject it. I would hope that, for everyone, the choice will be perfectly clear at that time, and that only the most hardened will reject salvation and "jump into the lake of fire."

This preaching was done to the spirits who were lost in the flood in the time of Noah. What point is it to preach to these spirits if there is no choice? Preaching is delivering the word of God to give faith to others. What is the point of building faith in those who have died if they have no choice?

So, Jew or Christian or any other religion, God will work it out either in this life or the next.

God is love, and loves His creation. Here are a couple of quotes from Jesus so you can see how His love will take care of us all:

"Fear not, little flock, for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."

and on the cross while dying:

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."

And don't forget the good thief on the cross next to Jesus. He went to heaven, but he was not baptized, nor was he justified by his works. He had faith.

The last I checked their were 12/13 tribes of Jacob (renamed Israel).
The Old Testament speaks of these tribes as being the set apart people of God, the "chosen".

At the time of Jesus Christ's ministry on Earth, He came announcing the Kingdom of God to His lost SHEEP OF ISRAEL (descendants of Jacob). In fact, to nobody else. Jews in the Bible referred to  people living in the area of Judea who were some of the tribes Judah and Benjamin and a few Levites. All others lived all over the known world at that point. Jews today mean anybody of the religion Judaism, all of which are anti-Christ because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

Paul's Gentiles are the tribes/nations which had been sent into the dispersions. They were Israelites nonetheless, dispersed centuries prior. The entire Bible is TO and ABOUT "ISRAEL", the people and descendants of Jacob. 

Over the past few centuries, Satan has done a marvellous job of confusing everyone. Jesus came to save those that had been given to Him, which were the descendants of Jacob. By changing the definition of the word "Jew" from a Judean to a Jewish person, most everyone NOW thinks that are the chosen ones and that Gentiles are the Non Jews....when in actuality the division is between Judeans (House of Judah) and the remaining tribes/nations (House of Israel) who are the Gentiles in Paul's epistles.

And we even wonder why Jesus warned the world that the Synogogue of Satan would hide behind the word "Jews".......So we've got today a Jewish (Judaism) and secular country in the Middle East that rejects Jesus Christ, and Christians out in the world who think that they are "Gentiles" when many are actually Israelites. And by all accounts everything is run and owned in this world by "Jews" - censored media, wars started, revolutions funded - yet the Christian nations have been silenced by the "chosen people" myth and the rest have been called anti-semites for speaking up.

Can you see why there is not an easy answer OP? Many Jewish people today do not descend from Jacob and therefore are not of the chosen ones, some do descend from Jacob and will come to accept the Messiah as they have been doing for 2000 years and Christians who do not study the Word of God and are expecting an entire JEWISH country to accept Jesus Christ when He returns, despite the fact that many don't descend from Jacob/Israel and THEREFORE will never accept Him because they are NOT HIS SHEEP. How on Earth do Christians and others still believe that Jewish people, of the religion Judaism, are all the chosen ones of God? Because they'd rather believe a lie than the truth, they'd rather bless a country in the Middle East that has an occult symbol on their flag by many accounts the seal of Solomon...

reply to post by AllUrChips


Jews and Christians aren't the two "main religions" - Islam has more adherents than Judaism. And Muslims believe that Islam existed before Judaism and Christianity - that Adam and Eve were the first humans on earth, and they were Muslim. If you truly want to know the right religion, then let us examine their beliefs in The Creator of the universe.

Muslims, unlike any other religion, believe that The Creator is not a spatial or ethereal entity, or, as some atheists, mockingly, say, "a big man in the sky". This is because The Creator existed before everything - before light, darkness, time, space, and all places. Jews and Christians claim to believe that The Creator is Perfect, created everything, and believe that The Creator is a transformer (that is, from existing without a place, to occupying a place). These are mutually contradictory. If one accepts that The Creator created everything and is Perfect, then they must also accept that The Creator existed without a place and is impervious of change/transformation. The Creator created everything means that The Creator existed before light and darkness, Heaven and Hell, time and space, etc. This means that The Creator existed without a place.

Transformation or "change" is, logically speaking, either from an inferior state to superior state, or from a superior state to an inferior. The person is implicitly saying one of the two when they say "God changes/transformed". Christians and Jews claim to believe that God is Perfect, yet, how can they reconcile it with there belief that God changes/transformed? They can't. The Christians believe that God changed into a man and came to earth. Jews believe that God is a man on a throne and rested after creating everything (Revelation 19:4;Psalm 47:8; Matthew 23:22; Revelation 4:9; Genesis 2:2 - you can check these verses at "Biblegateway.com". It has tons of different translators; but these translations are no different, so, no, it's not an interpretation error.)

Muslims believe that The Creator is Incomparable, Transcendent, Eternal, beginning-less, Perfect, Immutable, and All-Powerful. The Creator is not a big man in a sky, or a thing ascribed with physicality. This is known because whatever is physical NEEDS space to exist. The Creator existed before everything, hence, doesn't need anything, and this includes space. Hence, The Creator is not physical. Nor is The Creator in the Heavens. The Creator existed before the Heavens. The Creator existed before all places. The Creator existed without a place. As mentioned earlier, The Creator is clear of change/transformation. The Creator is not a shape, color, texture, or size. The Creator exists without a place and is clear of physicality or physical properties. The Creator is not a corporeal entity.

The jews and christians don't pray to The Creator, but a creation. This is because whatever changes/transformation, is created. The change had a beginning, it was brought from non-existence into existence. Before the change, the change did not exist, and after the change has occurred, the change has come into existence. And anything that was non-existent then came into existence is a creation. The Creator is clear of needing the creations, including change/transformation. In other words, anything that changes, itself has a beginning, thus, the conclusion that Jews and Christians believe that The Creator is a creation.

Muslims don't worship something they imagine in there minds, nor something which is made with there hands.

Whatever you imagine in your mind, The Creator is different from that. The imagination is related to those things that are perceived by the senses. The Creator cannot be compared to what we see in the creations - consequently, a picture of The Creator cannot be formed by the mind. Furthermore, the person who worships an image in his mind is in reality no different from the idol worshiper. The idolater worships a shape he has formed with his hands, and the one who worships a mental image worships a shape he has formed in his mind. Muslims believe that The Creator is not an image nor has has image - but that The Creator created all images and is not similar to any created thing. The Creator existed before there was space; The Creator is eternal; The Creator does not change. That being the case, common sense tells us that the Creator is not an object, is not a form, and cannot be portrayed by a picture or an image.

In brief,

The Creator is not a body or physical/spatial/ethereal entity. The Creator existed before everything. The Creator existed without a place. The Creator exists without a place. Every other religion says that The Creator is in a specific place or all places. This is wrong because The Creator existed before all places, so that means The Creator existed without a place and exists without a place.

reply to post by Reprobation


Reprobation, you may want to look up the history of when the Bible was written and when Muhammad was born before claiming that Islam existed before Judaism or Christianity. Which might explain why the Qu'ran is similar to the Bible in some of it's statements.

Yes, Christians believe in the Creator by the same definition that you have, not some other.

As far as I know, Muhammad didn't die on a cross or come back to life in order to prove that he was sent by God. He only made statements based on what he claims were "visions" from God.

Did Muhammad perform any miracles? According to this, he only CLAIMED to take a spiritual journey and claimed the Qu'ran as his one true miracle.

www.rasoulallah.net...

So, you might want to study the life and background of Muhammad and ask yourself if his life was really a good model worth truly following.

...

So I have a question for you football fans or people of any sport(just figured mostly football fans on here) that I even stumped a coach with. Its not that hard of a question either. WHO will win? Which team will win the Chiefs / Broncos game in November? Chiefs fans say that if all goes right, they will win. Football is popular in Kansas City. Now, Bronco fans dont believe football is more important to Chiefs fans than to them. Rather they're just amateurs. NOW, Im no expert, but if the Broncos are the "chosen" ones, and they actually LIVE in the "Mile High City" where that game takes place, then who will win? Are the Broncos not going to win because they do not believe in Chiefs fundamentals? Do the Chiefs loose, believing (practicing every day) in their fundamentals? And those are just two teams to play in November, that doesn't even include the other teams! So that is my question, WHO WILL WIN? Broncos or Chiefs?
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Im pretty sure you'll dodge the QUESTION I asked. Just like all Chiefs fans do when asked this. Don't beat around the bush please. Are you playing on bad fundamentals from your Coach? The Broncos (who by the way happen to live by the mile high stadium) don't believe your story. And coach, correct me if im wrong, but does your team happen to claim that NO ONE will win unless they believe in their Coaching fundamentals? Im pretty sure they do.
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I was raised with football, forced to games and found myself not believing once I was old enough to see for myself and make my own decisions. Trust me ive spent time at games. And it made me sick to see that out of two hours, 45 minutes were spent not playing the game. I know they do some good things, and I know the players especially the coach is well taken care of. Ive seen a few coaches houses trust me
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I believe I asked ONE question. I did not create the thread for ME, I opened it to get the answers of you football people, thats what I meant in the title. Also, I told you that ALL Chiefs fans will try to turn this around and spit football sounding rhetoric, but it never answers the question. PLEASE ANSWER the question I ASKED. I will take no questions about my opinion as Ive already made it clear of my stance.
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Coaches are stumped, not even the players can answer for sure... The fans think they know, but they COULD BE WRONG! WHO will WIN the FOOTBALL GAME in NOVEMBER!!? NOBODY SEEMS TO KNOW FOR SURE!!!

Change the context to see the simple break in logic - no one can answer definitively, because the outcome hasn't occurred yet, there are only strong opinions.

Furthermore games have a black and white (win or loose) result, the question your wanting to debate may not be black and white, the possibility exists that both "teams" could "win".

NOW, Im no expert, but...

None of us are when it comes to telling the future. Study to gain your own valid opinion, or don't.

If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.

I choose not to contend.

...

It is my understanding that Yeshua was/is Jesus and that was another way to call him. I could be wrong it was a couple decades since i was in religion class. That would make your question not very clear actually. You should possibly just leave that part out.

After reading more of your replies it seems you are not really interested in an answer you just want to point out how contradictory and stupid it all seems from the outside.

Guess what you are a couple thousand years late my dude, we all know the point you are trying to make. You are not asking an original question. There is no correct or sufficient answer in this.

If you indeed 'stumped' a pastor with this question, he has no business being a pastor. If he replied something to the effect of 'only the Christians, or Jews, or Muslims, etc.' then I would never go to that church. Alternatively, denominations have their purpose and I am not completely opposed to the concept. The only cause of denominations throughout time is differing interpretations of the same God. In general, I believe all monotheistic religions are worshiping the same God. I believe the only thing the one true God calls us (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Zoroastrians, etc.) to do is to 1. Love Him, and 2. Be good to your fellow man.

Alternatively, those who are either polytheistic or athiest are simply and temporarily 'lost'. I firmly believe there will come a day when God reveals Himself, then there will be no doubt among anybody, that God exists and created all. Athiests of course belive in no god. Polytheists belive in false gods. Note, I suspect that the root of polytheism is the worship of what the bible refers to as angels and demons (fallen angels). Some were good, and some were harsh. Enoch is fairly descriptive of how some angels and demons dabbled in the affairs of man. From man's perspective, these entities may seem like gods, mostly because they could demonstrate unworldly powers (aka advanced science). For example, suppose today that an 'alien' came to you and cured you cancer, or walked on water, or made your crops grow. Naturally, many would interpret that as devine actions, when in reality it was simply advanced science that we are unfamiliar with at the time. Some might even worship that being because of its 'powers'. However, God created everything, including science. However, one thing we will never be able to do is create a spirit. All living things have a vessel that is constantly influenced by actions and reactions which can be explained by science. But there is a certain intangible essence of being, which is unique to every creature. It may seem that modern science can 'create' life. But in reality, we simply use tools and resources to create the conditions for life. That life is literally created by God. In reality, we cant 'create' anything. We can only change the shape of things and put them together in certain ways. Therefore, it seem like we create things. Similarly, this is how the ancient aliens/angels/demons convinced early civilization that they were devine. On the other hand, this is how athiests denounce creationism, everything can be explained by science.

I digress... Just knowing that God exists doesnt do much for you. Recall 1. from before. If you truely know Him, then you will love Him. I know that's starting to sound all highfalutin religious and all, but its really not if you think about it. Its very simple. It doesnt matter what denomination you follow. Just seek wisdom and understanding. Once you know, you will love. So, what happens at judgement? Those who know and love go to heaven? Those know, but renounce dont? I believe that those who were faithful and knew God before the 'unveiling' will go to heaven. But here's the catch. I believe those will look upon the unsaved, see that their hearts have been changed, and petition that God have mercy on their souls as well because in the grand scheme of things, we are all equal.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
WHO is right? Which of your religions are right? The christians say that you must accept jesus christ as your lord and savior to go to heaven. Jesus is the SON of GOD according to christianity. Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet. NOW, Im no expert, but if the jews are the "chosen" ones, and they actually LIVE in the "holy land", then who is right?

"Christianity" is exemplified by the life one lives---not the doctrine that one believes. Once you can do that--follow the teachings of love regarding all matters-- the answers you seek will become clearer and you won't need to ask anyone those questions. Also I would suggest that you research what happened to the first century christians as well as reading some gnostic and apocryphal literature.

ETA:
Religion is poison.
Spirituality is not religion.

reply to post by AllUrChips

Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet.

Dont know if somebody else pointed this out by now, but.....
Jews dont even consider Jesus as a prophet.

reply to post by bluemirage5

The Muslims believe their God is one of many pagan Gods they once prayed to. The Jews believe their God is One and has no image.

I'm sorry Blue Mirage, this is incredibly ignorant.

Read a book on Sufism. Islam is monotheistic. Entirely. No question about it.

Islam, if any religion, is the most tolerable of religions for a Jew. Maimonides famously ruled that a Jew could enter a mosque, because like in Judaism, God is not presented in any form. There are no idols, no images, in fact, not even music. At most, there is a sort of hypnotizing art in tiles. But no images.

reply to post by Pearj


That made for some entertaining reading, but I think it's pretty safe to say that if all the "players" chose to sit back and not participate and just wait to see what happens, both sides will lose.

As for the Chiefs, most Chiefs fans I know would tell you that they don't have a prayer right now either.