Originally posted by ANOK
Originally posted by arbiture
Here again we have a lack of understanding when it comes to both forms or directions of idiocy. Both national socialism and communist's are in effect
the same thing...
No they're not.
The national socialists hated the communists. They fought against the communists in Spain. Hitler put socialists and communists in the camps.
Hitlers main enemy were the Bolsheviks, who became the communist party of the Soviet Union, lead by Lenin.
But you also all have to understand these are political parties, none of them were socialist or communist, even the ones that claimed to be. Those
terms were working class terms, of the people, not governments (even the term 'capitalism' was a left wing created term, meaning the 'private
ownership of the means of production'). Governments simply used those terms to garner support from the people. Just like they do today. The German
Democratic Republic, for example, was not democratic.
Real socialism, and communism, have nothing to do with government. They are economic systems. The original left wingers were mostly
anti-government/state. Even Marx was against government, he just thought it was a necessary evil to get society to a point whereby we could do away
with the state, and all hierarchical systems such as capitalism, altogether.
Talk about misunderstanding history.
edit on 12/30/2011 by ANOK because: typo
A fanatic is a fanatic, I don't care which flag one goose steps under. So the "official" NAZI party line was anti-communist? Extreme right or left
wing it's still the same old bull # if you look beneath the veneer. Misunderstanding history? I've lectured at the US Army's War College, and taught
courses in Psyops, technology and it's impact on 20th century history, and other fields. Also have several companies and worked free lance for the
State Department behind the iron curtain at the height of the cold war. Buddy, I know what I'm talking about. You certainly don't have to agree with
I should mention your absolutely right socialism is an economic structure, or defines an economic component of a country. Arguably, and w/out
question many nations have major socialist aspects and are also democratic. And every nation that many in the US consider "socialist" have elements
that are indeed socialist, Sweden for example, has a all-encompassing social net, that are extensive and include medical care, day care and other
aspects of a huge human services infrastructure that are paid for by much higher personal taxes then anything in my country for example. Yet there is
thriving capitalism in Sweden as well as other countries that has a huge, for the most part private and trust me very successful corporations.
One of the oldest and largest companies in Sweden is a major defense systems producer, which by the way also sold to both the Axis and Allies in
WW-2. Today Sweden produce's arguably the most advanced non-nuclear sub's in the world (Germany a close second in technology and first in production
volume) In fact the air independent sub's that use among other things fuel cells from Sweden are so good the US has "borrowed" for a fee naturally one
or more for training our Navy in anti-sub warfare. It's generally accepted non-nuclear subs not using auxiliary engines, traditionally diesel, when
running on traditional batteries, are quieter then nuclear boats because most nuke subs use noise making cooling pumps. Ours are very quiet, no pumps
at all are quieter.
But communism is just in any way that matters fascism. Both are dictatorships and are much more then just economic systems, were talking a lifestyle
per say. Communism has EVERYTHING to do with government. Indeed it's more then any one component. Marx said that "once the state was established and
everything worked( I paraphrase) the state would wither away" Talk about delusional thinking at best, if not being psychotic. NO ONE INCLUDING A
GOVERNMENT EVER WILLINGLY GIVES UP POWER. No one. If you believe that, you need a serious reality check. History and science are my two great
passions. if you want some interesting fiction, Das Kapital is a real belly laugh. What amaze's me is some actually think such non-sense is part of
any reality at least in this universe. Its literally unnatural as far as how humans react. The USSR ceased to exist not so much because the west
defeated them as much as it was a system that fell apart all by itself. That was inevitable.
Your also absolutely right about the DDR, (ex-east Germany). I have a rule when it comes to explaining other socio-political systems and nations. Its
always amazing that any nation that has "democratic and republic" as part of its official name is neither one of them.
edit on 30/12/11 by
arbiture because: word repeat (I still stutter...)
edit on 30/12/11 by arbiture because: correct spelling fart, again...