Hitler Was a Socialist!!!

reply to post by korathin


Uh yeah.. but Hitler is anti communism as well.
What point are you trying to make?



And that is conservative that is based on a lot of things, but excluding some of the nationalism that is so inherently RIGHTWING. Most agree he is much further right.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by thehoneycomb

 

Actually I am a libertarian. Unfortunately my love of being truthful and without agenda gets me into predicaments where buffoons try to label me a liar and a socialist because I speak the truth and they don't like to hear it.

Then your having a major lapse of judgement if you aren't lieing. Because you went with my "Hitler is to the Right of Stalin" to certificate that Hitler was right wing. That is either typical leftist pathological thinking or your being intellectually lazy. But since you think Hitler is a right winger, please explain step by step your rationalization for such thoughts.

reply to post by korathin


Read the excerpt text and understand something.

Um.. because Hitler was far right. Anyone with common sense is aware of that. It is just a tactic by right wingers to pass him off as leftist. It is even debatable that he was a socialist. You guys only think he was a socialist because it was in the title of his party..

To most people, Hitler's beliefs belong to the extreme far right. For example, most conservatives believe in patriotism and a strong military; carry these beliefs far enough, and you arrive at Hitler's warring nationalism. This association has long been something of an embarrassment to the far right. To deflect such criticism, conservatives have recently launched a counter-attack, claiming that Hitler was a socialist, and therefore belongs to the political left, not the right. The primary basis for this claim is that Hitler was a National Socialist. The word "National" evokes the state, and the word "Socialist" openly identifies itself as such. However, there is no academic controversy over the status of this term: it was a misnomer. Misnomers are quite common in the history of political labels. Examples include the German Democratic Republic (which was neither) and Vladimir Zhirinovsky's "Liberal Democrat" party (which was also neither). The true question is not whether Hitler called his party "socialist," but whether or not it actually was. In fact, socialism has never been tried at the national level anywhere in the world. This may surprise some people -- after all, wasn't the Soviet Union socialist? The answer is no. Many nations and political parties have called themselves "socialist," but none have actually tried socialism. To understand why, we should revisit a few basic political terms. Perhaps the primary concern of any political ideology is who gets to own and control the means the production. This includes factories, farmlands, machinery, etc. Generally there have been three approaches to this question. The first was aristocracy, in which a ruling elite owned the land and productive wealth, and peasants and serfs had to obey their orders in return for their livelihood. The second is capitalism, which has disbanded the ruling elite and allows a much broader range of private individuals to own the means of production. However, this ownership is limited to those who can afford to buy productive wealth; nearly all workers are excluded. The third (and untried) approach is socialism, where everyone owns and controls the means of production, by means of the vote. As you can see, there is a spectrum here, ranging from a few people owning productive wealth at one end, to everyone owning it at the other. Socialism has been proposed in many forms. The most common is social democracy, where workers vote for their supervisors, as well as their industry representatives to regional or national congresses. Another proposed form is anarcho-socialism, where workers own companies that would operate on a free market, without any central government at all. As you can see, a central planning committee is hardly a necessary feature of socialism. The primary feature is worker ownership of production.

www.huppi.com...

Authoritarianism, fascism, anti communist, anti liberal, anti marxist. No one with common sense would consider Hitler left wing. Of course Hitler is right of Stalin.. way right. I'd love to know how that is a lapse of judgement. I hope that answers all your questions so you can join the other few in this thread that have harped on incorrectly for ages.So do you get it? Now you don't have socialism, now what makes him leftist to you guys? Have a goodnight.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

Adolf Hitler
"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

Nationalism is neither left nor right wing.
excessive patriotism; chauvinism.

Actually if anything Nationalism, or excessive nationalism(as it could limit an individuals rights within a society) is a leftist construct.

Either way those pesky communist right wing Chinese nationalist sob's and their invasion of that pesky, nationalistic communist Vietnam would like to greatly disagree with you. Either cite reality and stay away from Academic circle jerks or give up. I want to hear your rationalization as to why Hitler and the Nazi's are right wing. Then again we have two radically different world views. Even a cursory examination of my previous statements would have illuminated that fact clearly to you. For example you would call Neo Conservatives and Social Conservatives "Right wing", I would call them leftist trash. I don't see the difference between different styles of thuggery.

reply to post by korathin


Trust me.. if there is one thing I have learned it's that you can't take HITLER'S word for it.
What was he gonna say to the poor Germans who, shortly before the build up to war were starving, "this is going to be a fascist regime." No, of course not, he is gonna say, it's socialism YAY.
It wasn't, nothing can change that. No amount of wishing.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by korathin

 

Trust me.. if there is one thing I have learned it's that you can't take HITLER'S word for it.
What was he gonna say to the poor Germans who, shortly before the build up to war were starving, "this is going to be a fascist regime." No, of course not, he is gonna say, it's socialism YAY.
It wasn't, nothing can change that. No amount of wishing.

Then please teach me all of the things Hitler did, line by line that makes him right wing? If what he say's doesn't matter, please do state what he did(and don't forget his nationalization drives and land seizures).

reply to post by korathin


Look it up yourself if you want to learn so bad. I'm done educating for the night. Especially people that are incapable of admitting when they are wrong. I've given all the proof I need to. All you even ever brought to the table was yours and hitler's word that he was a socialist when every scholar or person since can look at what is actions were and say otherwise. Our leaders say we are democratic and a republic.. yet in a hundred years I bet people will say, not the people really didn't have a choice. You have to look at the big picture sometimes,instead of taking the evil dictators word for it. Night.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by korathin

 

Look it up yourself if you want to learn so bad. I'm done educating for the night. Especially people that are incapable of admitting when they are wrong. I've given all the proof I need to. All you even ever brought to the table was yours and hitler's word that he was a socialist when every scholar or person since can look at what is actions were and say otherwise. Our leaders say we are democratic and a republic.. yet in a hundred years I bet people will say, not the people really didn't have a choice. You have to look at the big picture sometimes,instead of taking the evil dictators word for it. Night.

edit on 2-12-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

Admit being wrong to what? You haven't proven anything. All you did was put up a shiny graph that is questionable once you actually examine it's pretenses. Then your propped up a link about nationalism. How can one take your arguments seriously when they have no relevant meat to them? You keep stepping outside the issue. If Hitler/Nazi's where right wing, it should be an easy thing to prove based upon their actions while governing Nazi Germany.

excerpt of wikipedia's topic on Hitlers 4 year economic policy
Methods

The Four Year Plan favoured both the protection of agriculture and economic independence. Hermann Göring was put in charge of the Four Year Plan on October 18, 1936 and was given extraordinary powers for an extraordinary situation. In short, Göring had complete control over the economy including the private sector, especially after the Minister of Economics, Hjalmar Schacht, began to lose favour with Hitler because of his opposition to growing military expenditures. During the following years, Germany began building refineries, aluminium plants, and factories for the development of synthetic-materials.

The four year plan technically expired in 1940, but the "Office of the Four Year Plan" (considered a cabinet level agency) had grown to such a power base that the Four year plan was extended indefinitely. Indeed, much of the Four Year Plan's goals relating to economic production were accomplished between 1941 and 1944.

en.wikipedia.org...

In short, Göring had complete control over the economy including the private sector,

What would that be called?

A planned economy is an economic system in which decisions regarding production and investment are embodied in a plan formulated by a central authority, usually by a government agency.
en.wikipedia.org...

Let's play a game! What countries have or had a "Planned Economy"?

Soviet Union
Nazi Germany
Cuba
China
North Korea
Vietnam

etc


Beginning to see a pattern here?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


For crying out loud, most, if not all leftwingers ALWAYS claim that socialism, communism marxism etc are all DIFFERENT, now you are trying to claim they are exactly the same thing?...

I don't need to have any last words, the truth and the facts speak for themselves. You can continue tryng to "deny, deny, deny" it is what you are good at, but the truth will ALWAYS be there nagging in the back of your hard coconut no matter how much you try to deny the truth...

Hitler was a SOCIALIST. There is no ifs, or buts... Not only did he clearly say he was a socialist but what he did demonstrated that he was one.

He had different ideas of what form of socialism should eist in Germany, but it was socialism...

There are many branches to the socialist tree, but they all lead to chaos, death and destruction in the end goal, and HISTORY proves it.

reply to post by korathin


The US economy is just as planned

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


BTW, you are no educator, you are part of the brainwashed, ignorant masses. You want to ignore the lessons of history, but at the same time you want everyone else to forget them, and people like me are not going to forget them because people like me EXPERIENCED socialist/communist dictatorships.

Despite people like you there are millions that listen to the experience of people like me, and will learn instead of turning a blind eye and ear to the truth and to experience.

The only way real socialism will triumph is through a socialist dictatorship, by making people accept the failed ideologies that are part of socialism.

When you put "the good of the whole always before the good of the individual" in fact you are taking away individual rights which in essence takes away the rights of EVERYONE...

Socialism is bound to FAIL every time, and transforms once prosperous nations into dictatorships if the main premises of socialism are fully embraced...

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by korathin

 

The US economy is just as planned

The USA has been a leftist nation(well center left) since the creation of the Federal Reserve/Currency Reserve Corporation.

Nazi Germany, Soviet Union.. etc where far leftist nations. An example of a far right nation would probably be the USA circa 1880's. As the US before then was more a federation of nations(with some nations being more left wing[south and slavery] and some being more right wing). That said, anyone on the far left or far right is out of their minds. As I said before, a far right winger extremist would be an anarcho survivalist(with anarcho capitalism to the slight left of it).

Frankly spoken, Mad Max doesn't appeal to me all that much. Because if you try to go a wee bit more to the right you end up automatically at the far end of the left side(roving bands of thugs and what not, might makes right garbage).

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


lol, I have tried that "game", and it puts me to the left in politics, but I am nowhere near the left in politics. It puts me to the left because it makes the false premise that all social programs must be leftwinger policies, and they are NOT... Before socialism even existed there were people who would help others, and even in the U.S. anyone could prosper without the help of leftwinger policies...

Programs like that one can be easily manipulated, just like polls.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

lol, I have tried that "game", and it puts me to the left in politics, but I am nowhere near the left in politics.

Programs like that one can be easily manipulated, just like polls.

I was thinking the same thing. Like how the heck did Hitler end up where he did?(I googled it)
www.politicalcompass.org...

He had a planned economy. He did massive land, gold and business seizures. Engaged in Keynesian economic policies...

The thing is when people start to lump together Socialism, Nazism, Leftists and Communists all together in one neat little pile, they are displaying pure ignorance. It's embarrassing to watch. It is basically their way of abdicating the right of doing anything bad EVER in the course of history including natural disasters. It's a willful ignorance.

reply to post by korathin


Exactly, far right would be anarchists, but sane people know that you do need some government and some laws for a nation to function properly.

Many leftwingers have the false notion that conservatives, Republicans, and other rightwingers don't feel sympathy for others, and don't want to help anyone, and that is nothing more than a false assumption.

Having a good heart, being sympathetic and wanting to help others are no features of socialism, or can only be found among leftwingers...

ANYONE from ANY political party can be a good or bad person, it has NOTHING to do with politics...

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The thing is when people start to lump together Socialism, Nazism, Leftists and Communists all together in one neat little pile, they are displaying pure ignorance. It's embarrassing to watch. It is basically their way of abdicating the right of doing anything bad EVER in the course of history including natural disasters. It's a willful ignorance.

Who is saying they are exactly the same thing? However, they do all branch out from under the roots of socialism. It is why they are called leftwing ideologies...

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and walks like a duck, IT MUST BE A DUCK, nomatter if it has a different color than other ducks, or if it is taller, or shorter... Some differences doesn't make any duck any less of a duck just like some differences in leftwinger ideologies does not make them any less leftwing ideologies...

BTW, NO ONE has implied that leftwingers are the cause of natural disasters, that is nothing but a red herring, and shows YOUR ignorance...

reply to post by thehoneycomb

Good Grief, does National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) ring a bell or maybe its more popular name is familiar NAZI Party? I suppose there are some here that didn't realize Hitler was a Socialist and that many in our country are Socialists and that they are all headed for the same fate as Hitler.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
The thing is when people start to lump together Socialism, Nazism, Leftists and Communists all together in one neat little pile,

Damn. You just pinned the Australian labor party

which is why America has been infected and brought to near ruin with that sick Socialist mentality.

rofl!

If America had a socialist mentality (which, IMO, it never had, compared to other countries) - IF it ever had a socialist mentality the states would not be there where they are right now.

With millions living under the poverty limit, not being able to afford health care, working minimum wage jobs, uneducated...the reason why America is so screwed up and "brought to near ruin" is because the Reps #ed it up, ignoring the needs of a starving majority (so to speak) and catering more to a small, already rich Elite instead - plus crazy spending towards defense.

Saying America has been brought near ruin with "sick Socialist mentality" must be the best joke i ever heard here on the forum...tell that the one making $6 hour working some # job who has no health insurance...or tell that someone looking for a job who needs an education or training (which in other, so called "socialist" countries he would actually get paid for).

So..where is that "socialist mentality" in the US? I'd like to see it!