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US police will now be able to come in Canada

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posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Can you say North American Union?

More BS from Harper and Obama, the two Bilderbergers sellouts.

Border deal fuels concerns in Canada

Armed U.S. police officers will for the first time be allowed to operate in Canada along with the RCMP as part of far-reaching changes in Canadian-American border operations to be unveiled next week by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and President Barack Obama.

The joint action plan to be announced at the White House will also break new ground by introducing exit-entry records that will track the movements of everyone who leaves the United States or Canada, with the information available to authorities in both countries.

In the months and years ahead, the deal between Ottawa and Washington will reshape security, travel and commercial arrangements at the border in a variety of profound ways — some of which have already raised alarms among Canadians.



The pilot project, Holder said, will improve the two countries’ ability to deal with the “unprecedented” threats along the border from terrorists, human smugglers, illegal firearms traffickers and drug dealers.

TOTAL BULL. Terrorists? You mean bankers? Human smugglers? You mean tourists? Illegal firearms traffickers? You mean gun owners? Drug dealers? You mean pot smoking hippies?


Again, to all the naive people who voted for Harper and Obama : SHAME ON YOU.
edit on 30-11-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Nothing new. If I remember correctly the militaries have been allowed this leeway for some time now. Bi-lateral cooperation. It's not like the American police can just jump the border and act independently. As the source says, they will have to act with the RCMP. Think Due South in reverse.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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I am.......
very angry to say the least.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Ive been following this type of cooperation for some time.

Operation shiprider was the pilot program between the RCMP and US Coast Guard. That program dealt solely with maritime borders and concentrated in the pacific northwest and the great lakes. It cross trained officers on both sides in each others laws and procedures. If the RCMP was in pursuit of a vessel that crossed into US waters, the Canadian vessel could continue pursuit. Once they crossed into US waters the RCMP officers act as US Coast Guard, falling under their authority. In the reverse the Coast Guard falls under RCMP authority.

The follow up testing was done in Michigan - Ontario. Detroit and Windsor started a pilot program that created essentially a joint task force for local / provincial law enforcement. It put officers onto both sides of the border and allowed them to work joint investigations. The legal system on both sides were involved to ensure each nations guarantees and protections for each others citizens were being upheld, which they were. From what I have read the court system in both countries at that level were comfortable with the manner each side did their investigations, lending legal precedent to the cooperation on both sides.

The next step was the joint task force based in Northern Michigan that dealt specifically with smuggling on the Us Canadian border on the great lakes.

Things progressed until the incident in Niagara Falls New York and Canada. Niagara police (US police) responded to a priority call (domestic violence with a weapon). Long story short the suspect managed to get into his van and a pursuit started. Because of the felonies involved (and the officers not thinking this through) no officer involved in the pursuit nor the dispatchers bothered to notify US Customs / Border Patrol and also failed to notify their Canadian counterparts a pursuit was coming that way. For some reason 4 US officers contiunued the pursuit across the border into canada. Of the 4 cars, 1 stopped at the border, the other 3 continued the pursuit into Niagara Falls Canada.

During that portion the suspect in the van ended up hitting and killing a Canadian citizen, and the van wrecking out. A foot pursuit started with an Ontario Provincial Officer, who was the n shot at by the suspect. He was eventually captured and booked into a Canadian jail for charges.

Canada was a bit torqued, and had every right to be. Diplomatic protest was filed for violation of Canada's sovereignty.

Fast forward to a couple years ago. The Us and Canada, in order to jointly combat terrorism, toyed with the idea of essentially merging the countries customs and border agents and streamlining entry laws between the 2 countries (which has been occurring for some time now). The goal was to essentially remove the US - Canadian border checks, instead relying on the points of entry into the 2 countries via airplane / ships etc.

While that was being worked on the US and Canada signed a security agreement that would allow the armed forces of either country to cross the border if requested by State / Provincial authorities to assist in disaster scenario's. That agreement was signed I think 2 years ago.

The newest agreement on border security is to expand the ship-rider program idea onto land. The pursuit policies / laws in Canada and the US are virtually identical. The latest "test" is to allow law enforcement from each side who are engaged in certain types of pursuits the ability to maintain pursuit into either country and break off when appropriate jurisdiction units get involved.

So far, everything I have seen on these programs has been on the up and up. Both sides have expressed concern over the rights of their citizens, and the laws I've seen governing all of this has that as their top priority and is specifically called out / noted in legislation on both sides.

If you dont mind me asking, why would people have a problem with this? I ask this because of my background. I dont see any issues or sovereignty issues for that matter since its clear that if American police / coast guard enter Canada we are operating as Canadian law enforcement and are bound by Canadian laws, and vice versa when Canadian officers enter the US.

Obviously since I do law enforcement there are aspects I might be missing, which is why im asking the question.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your point of view.
edit on 30-11-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 07:07 PM
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Here is some more info -
Ship-Rider Program - US / Canadian Coast Guard / RCMP Program

American Police Pusrsuit enters Canada

Canada - US working on cross border police pursuits

Canada - US joint military border crossing

Windsor - Detroit Border Police Task force


As a side note I will say that Canada has been very strict on what information is available to US law enforcement (traffic stops / working accidents). During our training we cover how to run information from Mexican or Canadian Nationals. With Mexico its hit or miss depending on the size of the city the person we have stopped is from.

For Canada we are told that we can run the info but it could take up to 2 days to get a response. To date ive never had any issues with either country.
edit on 30-11-2011 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Great post with good info, thanks. What burns me up is if I hop on a plane to Europe departing from Halifax, or from Vancouver to Asia, I don't fly over the US. I resent the US having access to info about me. Do they give us info on all passengers flying over Canada between Alaska and the lower 48? I highly doubt it, because if they did, we'd have heard US senators spewing forth about it in no uncertain terms.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 09:43 PM
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Mr. Harper is on my list for citizens arrest FOR TREASON. He must be arrested.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by aboutface
 


Actually to the best of my knowledge Canada does get info on US citizens. Keep in mind that NORAD is a joint operation between the US and Canada. Canadian intelligence services has probably the closest working relationship with their US counterparts than any other country on the planet, with the UK being a close second.

We can get warrant hits if we run a Canadian who is wanted and vice versa. Last I saw Canadian law enforcement who runs a US citizen get NCIC hits as well.

An interesting example of just how close the US and Canada are can be seen on 9/11. Everyone knows about the US closing down all US airspace. All inbound flights that didn't make it into US airspace before the closure were essentially told to find the closest airport - pilot discretion. What was interesting was Canada's response. We all know they took in a LOT of flights. What was not widely reported was Canada actually closed their airspace as well at one point, because of the events in the US.

I respect the view of Canadians, as well as Americans, who see agreements like this as a slow erosion of national sovereignty. I also understand Canada gets lumped into the mini US viewpoint, causing a further erosion of a national identity separate from that of the US.

I guess what i'm trying to say, and this is meant with all due respect, is most Americans understand Canada is a sovereign nation but on a personal level Canada is viewed as family. When I lived in Michigan for college we made many trips into Canada. Aside from crossing the border, we never felt unwelcome or that we were in another country. For us it was no different than driving from Michigan into Ohio. 2 separate states with their own laws at the state level with protections to citizens at the federal level regardless of state.

If we did a side by side comparison of law enforcement from each country there is not that much of a difference. Even the rights of an individual to have a lawyer etc are almost identical.

I guess my question is -
Do Canadians find these agreements unacceptable because they dont agree with them, or do they find issues with these agreements based on the possibility of further losing "national identity"? Is it possible people have issues with the agreement because they dont make the distinction between the US Federal Government and State Government?

Because this topic deals with 2 countries, the Federal Government must be involved. However, the laws that would govern the officers under the agreement are taken from local / provincial / state laws.

Just curious..



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
Mr. Harper is on my list for citizens arrest FOR TREASON. He must be arrested.


If you dont mind me asking, why treason? Under the agreement US officers are subject to Canadian law enforcement standards and vice versa. We aren't going to be patrolling Canadian streets. All this does is allow law enforcement on both sides who are engaged in a pursuit that crosses the border and meets certain criteria the ability to continue until respective law enforcement can get involved.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Great Post,and thanks for the Links.



Nothing is perfect,as I see,but I dont think its a bad decision to link up with Canadian police. Imagine a scenario when a child is involved,and time is of the essence. I sure as hell would cut through the bureaucracy to see justice catch some bad person,who means harm to a child.
edit on 30-11-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 




Again, to all the naive people who voted for Harper and Obama : SHAME ON YOU.


dont blame me, i voted for Jack Layton, its like as if the elites knew he was going to die, thats they releceted Harper



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 



It's always amazes me how a well thought out FACTUAL and reasonable post can change the whole atmosphere of a thread. What you did in here reminds me of a shark being put into stasis , masterfully done.



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 11:22 PM
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Up here in Detroit/WIndsor they have been for years. And the BORDER PATROL has 25 mile limits and can pull over ANYONE without cause and even get you a speeding ticket. (They hold you for the regular police or mounties if its in Windsor.)



posted on Nov, 30 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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This scares me, and people put all the blame on it being Harper, but it pretty much would have happened no matter what. Harper is the US's tool, we all know that, but his opponents had no chance at defeating him. Liberals had Ignatieff, who had most of canada hating him (Liberals could have had a better shot at winning if they put foreward some random intern), then there was NDP with Layton. NDP has never won the federal election, and they never get anywhere near enough seats to win it. Green Party is a brand new party, and they don't have a big enough following. Elizabeth May had some platforms that were pretty out there, and it had people wary about voting for her. And bloc has ABSOLUTELY no chance of ever winning. They are only in one province. Even if they win every seat in their province, they aren't able to win.

The only parties that ever have a realistic chance at winning are the Conservatives and Liberals. And as I said, the Liberals pretty much threw the election, and gave it to Harper. Even if people did jump the Harper ship, and jump over to the other Major party, the Liberals, they would have been jumping to an actual American citizen, who had lived in the US for 34 years. He definately had a pretty big American Influence. It was a case of picking the devil we know, or the devil we don't.

I wish people stood up and said that the candidates were not good enough. I would love to see a mini-uprising where we tell our parties that we want leaders who will lead the way our country wants to be lead, not the way the states wants us to behave.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by razor787
 


If you dont mind me asking, what part of this scenario scares you and why?



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Sorry, I don't believe that Canada gets info on US citizens except for those marked for observation. Our medical records are supposed to be private, but under this agreement, (it's been discussed before), if I leave the country, the US has a right to all my info? While I agree on the cousin feeling between both countries' citizens, yer gubbermint scares the bejeebus out of me. We Canucks highly value our privacy.



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by aboutface
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


Sorry, I don't believe that Canada gets info on US citizens except for those marked for observation. Our medical records are supposed to be private, but under this agreement, (it's been discussed before), if I leave the country, the US has a right to all my info? While I agree on the cousin feeling between both countries' citizens, yer gubbermint scares the bejeebus out of me. We Canucks highly value our privacy.


From what ive seen Canada does get info on US citizens, regardless if they are on a watch list or not. As I said Canada law enforcement has access to the NCIC, which is the US Federal database that alerts law enforcement in one state to issues / felony warrants out of another state.

It should work the same way when local law enforcement runs an individual.
Local law enforcement has a reason for contact, say speeding. They run the drivers information through their local crime system which interacts with the state system for warrants / issues out of other jurisdictions in the state.

It then takes the info and pegs the federal system to check for issues out of other states / federal agencies. If im not mistaken it should also check the interpol status if someone is wanted internationally. Law Enforcement is able to run foreign passports through the system as well, pegging the appropriate government agency for a return on status.

The fact police in Windsor can run Americans and get warrant hit information tells me the information exchange is the same (with the exception of certain information restricted by individual state / provincial law). What I mean by that is if I stop a person from another state, and I run their info, i'm restricted to basic response. I cant have dispatch scan the other state database for additional info. I am restricted to the info that state's law puts in place.

Was there some type of specific information you were referring to?



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
Mr. Harper is on my list for citizens arrest FOR TREASON. He must be arrested.


uh huh...

and your definition of treason is?

go fill in the arrest warrant application and get a JOP to sign an arrest warrant. If you can get that, I'll personally execute the warrant as I am a peace officer in Canada... good luck...





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