Intolerance by those preaching tolerance (the tram ride)

reply to post by blupblup


I really wish more people was like yourself and judged people on personal basis and not on a thing such as skin tone or race the world would be a far more peaceful and in harmony if people shared this view

Peace

reply to post by iHaveAwoken

I can only go by what I have been told. She picked up the boy on her way back. I wonder why she was allowed to leave as well because it appears these sessions sometimes 'stir up' a response.

I am not knowledgeable about mental illness so the terms used go over my head I just know she has problems which her and her partner did not inform anyone of the serious nature of it till this event.

It's the stiff upper lip and the stigma mental illness carries I suppose. I hope that helps.

Originally posted by iHaveAwoken
reply to post by monkofmimir

 

I totally agree! Death threats aimed towards her are disgusting ! I do not and did not state that this woman deserves what is happening to her in terms of any threats she is receiving. What I am interested in is her mental state and mental capacity. Colin states that this is the reason why incident happened. From a professional point of view it stirred my curiosity, hence my reply to his post.

I will again state though that you cannot use mental health issues as a shield to avert yourself from total blame when you have wronged.

edit on 1-12-2011 by iHaveAwoken because: Ps i agree the pros do get it wrong sometimes! Just like any one can.

I agree. My OP is an attempt to shed light on the why and not to excuse the event. Nothing in this world is black and white so I hoped the information and background my stop some of the more extreme comments.

Originally posted by theruthlessone
Comment from: parrallel on: 22/9/2011 @ 19:08
Keep up the good work on the EDL thread matey! I cant even be bothered to justify myself to those idiots who disagree with the EDL etc! Have had 2 warnings today from mods so im gona skip posting that thread and just watch you take no prisoners lol

I got this off your comments section on your page yes sounds like you dont agree with the EDL

edit on 22/9/2011 by theruthlessone because: (no reason given)

Believe what you want - I don't mind. Like I said, I was sympathetic to the EDL's cause, and still am sympathetic to many of the members who are true patriots ignorant of the true agenda behind the EDL. If I was EDL I wouldn't be ashamed to admit it believe me.

As for the apparent offense I've caused you - ask yourself exactly what you're so offended about. Did I say you don't belong in England? Did I say you're a lesser person because you are mixed-race? Did I say ANYTHING derogatory to you or about you?

No!

I simply stated a fact. Ethnic identity is non-negotiable. Neither you nor me can alter or redefine identity - it's far bigger and more established than two individuals. If I met a 5ft tall man who claimed to be 7ft, and then told him I thought he was actually more around the 5ft mark, would he be right in telling me that he can call himself 7ft tall if I wants and that I'm being offensive suggesting otherwise?

English ethnic identity is the same thing - it is not subjective, nor is it defined by the State (like British identity). Identity is an objective truth - it has to be to have any meaning.

Blupblup – you may think you know what responses I’m going to give, but likewise. We never get anywhere, but nevertheless I still enjoy debating with you. Denying ignorance is a noble cause and I’m addicted to it. I’ve condensed your post a little and opted to address the more pertinent points only – hope you don’t mind:

Originally posted by blupblup
Well the Black woman didn't say anything racist and the Racist woman was clearly pointing out that anyone who is not white cannot be British... again, this is not the case.

True! ‘British’ is a political, civil term – not an ethnic one. However, whilst an ignorant thing to say it is not racist even by your definition:

Originally posted by blupblup
As for the definition of racist... "hatred or intolerance of another race or other races"

Originally posted by blupblup
She also goes to say "Go back to some N*gger country" and changes it to "N*ggeragua"
She doesn't quite go the whole hog but the intent was there.

Yes, people see and hear what they want to. There are certain self-proclaimed do-gooders who would like Emma West to be every bit the villain in their ongoing inquisition against the ‘unenlightened’.

Originally posted by blupblup
There was one racist woman in the video clip that we see.... (here's a clue, she wasn't black)

I’d say there were two! I just wish that you and the multicult in general would at least concede that non-whites can be racist too. Such a concession by you would go a long way to building a bridge of understanding between the so-called ‘right’ and ‘left’. I know that you’ll say to me now “yes non-whites can be racist too”, but in practice you’re very reluctant to acknowledge it.

Originally posted by blupblup
Secondly, White people are not the only English people... I don't get your reasoning?
So someone cannot be English and Black? Or English and Asian?
Explain please...

Please see my responses to ruthlessone. ‘English’ (named after the ‘Anglisc’, the ‘Angles’ – one of the founding Germanic tribes) is an ethnic term. It is not open to interpretation or adoptable. It cannot be assigned by any man or authority. It is defined, at birth, by ancestry. I am simply stating fact here. Could I – a white European - become Navajo? If I tried to, would I not be undermining the Navajo identity?

Originally posted by blupblup
When the only people to blame are the government.
They set the immigration policy, they signed up to the EU open door policy.... they give handouts and benefits to people and so on... I could go on.
Point is..
BLAME THE GOVERNMENT
To blame the actual people who are here... is just insane.

I fully agree. I do not blame immigrants themselves – and Emma West should have not. I do however reserve the right to knock racist, disrespectful, ungrateful immigrants down a peg or two. Luckily that type are in the minority. Problem is blupblup, you and your ilk have denied people like me any recourse. You say “blame the government”, ignoring the fact that they ignore us. So what do we do?... set up nationalist political parties and have the likes of you vilify us at every turn? Democracy is dead. So groups like the EDL appear and are also demonized. I’d like you, blupblup, to tell me what people like me are to do (aside from bend over and take it). Emma West’s outburst, I’m guessing, was out of sheer frustration and wouldn’t have happened had the government listened.

Originally posted by blupblup
Free speech stops when hate speech starts.
You do not have the right to abuse someone based on racial, ethnic, or sexual prejudices.
In a civilised society, this is an absolute necessity.

In a free society, unconditional free speech is an absolute necessity.

reply to post by Cythraul

Originally posted by Cythraul

True! ‘British’ is a political, civil term – not an ethnic one. However, whilst an ignorant thing to say it is not racist even by your definition:

Well turning around and pointing at anyone who isn't white and telling them that they're not British and then telling a black woman to "F**k off back home" most definitely is racist.

That woman was a racist.

Originally posted by Cythraul
Yes, people see and hear what they want to. There are certain self-proclaimed do-gooders who would like Emma West to be every bit the villain in their ongoing inquisition against the ‘unenlightened’.

I don't think she is purely a villain or evil, I think, if what we hear from colin42 is true, that she needs help and needs the support of friends and family.

Doesn't change the fact that she's a racist.

Originally posted by Cythraul
I’d say there were two! I just wish that you and the multicult in general would at least concede that non-whites can be racist too. Such a concession by you would go a long way to building a bridge of understanding between the so-called ‘right’ and ‘left’. I know that you’ll say to me now “yes non-whites can be racist too”, but in practice you’re very reluctant to acknowledge it.

Of course they can be racist? I said as much
I said this to the other member, I think it applies equally to you

Originally posted by blupblup
She didn't mention the woman's race.... British people are not "only" white you know.... I know in your little mind they are, the only "pure" Brits are white... but in reality British people are made up of every race and colour.

And yes you would be racist if you said black people were too lazy to work, much like it would also be racist to say white people were lazy.

The point is, racism is racism...I don't condone it whoever is saying it... I really don't, you can try and say what you like... and if this Black woman in the video would have said anything racist (Even if it was because she was provoked) then yes, I would have said that she was also stupid and ignorant.

But again, much as I said to the other member and as much as it would add some credibility to the people trying to defend her (White woman's) actions, this didn't happen.

Originally posted by Cythraul
Please see my responses to ruthlessone. ‘English’ (named after the ‘Anglisc’, the ‘Angles’ – one of the founding Germanic tribes) is an ethnic term. It is not open to interpretation or adoptable. It cannot be assigned by any man or authority. It is defined, at birth, by ancestry. I am simply stating fact here. Could I – a white European - become Navajo? If I tried to, would I not be undermining the Navajo identity?

Yes, but it is also generally accepted to mean

of, pertaining to, or characteristic of England or its inhabitants, institutions, etc.


If we track many words back, they also have multiple meanings too... even many words today we consider to be "Taboo" but this doesn't mean that they also don't have multiple meanings, that's the beautiful thing about language I guess.

Originally posted by Cythraul
Problem is blupblup, you and your ilk have denied people like me any recourse. You say “blame the government”, ignoring the fact that they ignore us. So what do we do?.

I haven't denied anybody anything?

The government ignores everybody man.... that's life.

What if paedophiles said that they thought it was unfair that they couldn't look at child porn?
Now I'm not talking about child molesters or rapists, just those who get off on the images of children.... what if they decided that they thought the government was unfair and just went around doing what ever they liked?

It doesn't work man...

You cannot just go around spouting off racist crap at people, there are laws in place to protect people from such things.

Originally posted by Cythraul
.. set up nationalist political parties and have the likes of you vilify us at every turn? Democracy is dead. So groups like the EDL appear and are also demonized.

Well if people handled themselves properly and didn't go around like football thugs beating people up and distributing racist material and so on, perhaps more people would take them seriously and more people would happily join the debate.

I think the figures are something like 70% of British people are concerned and want something done about immigration..... yet how many support the types of party you're talking about?

Not many....

This is the point... many people agree that something needs doing yet hardly anyone agrees with the tactics used and types of people involved in the groups you're talking about... those criminals and out and racists, not a good look man.

I’d like you, blupblup, to tell me what people like me are to do (aside from bend over and take it).

Tell me simply, briefly and in question form, what your actual problem is.
And I'll try and help.

Just droped in to post a new version of the video i was sent. It seems a little longer and there is some more information in it too.

It is certainly a strange one???? It all goes a bit weird after 30seonds.




bye now.

Originally posted by blupblup
Tell me simply, briefly and in question form, what your actual problem is.
And I'll try and help.

Thank you blupblup, but my question was really rhetorical. I know exactly what the problem is and how to solve it. I also know that it will be solved eventually and that I really have no need to persuade people who don’t need or want to be persuaded. My only frustration is that so many well-meaning people have been duped by the instigators of the problem.

There is a secret Global Empire who rule by deception. It was founded by several bloodlines at least 400 years ago and they still dominate the World. They have been behind the public empires of Britain, Russia and America (to name a few) because they long ago infiltrated sovereign governments and took control of them; they then exploited the people and reputation of those sovereign nations. They have enslaved and corrupted through many methods – initially by usury and taxation, through to Democracy and the media. More recently, they have deemed it necessary to irrevocably destroy all nations – starting with what they deem to be the most historically threatening ones to their agenda: Europe. A nation is a specific people on a specific piece of land. To destroy a nation you can either openly steal their land… but what if your Empire is so secretive that it does not consist of a multitude of subjects large enough to actually physically conquer the World? Well then you encourage mass-migration to destroy or displace the people who comprise a nation instead.

The only solution is to expose and destroy that secret Global Empire. Mass-immigration and multiculturalism are a balloon being held under water by that Empire and when their hand that applies that downward force is severed, natural order, liberty and prosperity shall be renewed.

reply to post by Cythraul




Well I was enjoying our little debate and went through point by point and answered your last post and in return I get that?

Awwww no fair





Anyway, if that's what your problem is and that's why all this is happening then I really can't help so...


Cheers

Originally posted by blupblup
Anyway, if that's what your problem is and that's why all this is happening then I really can't help so...

Cheers

I don't expect you to blupblup . Bottom line is, I don't blame or dislike immigrants and I don't have any faith in a Democratic solution. It really is part of a bigger picture... so I don't know why I bother wasting time on specific issues like immigration. Actually, that's part of the divide and distract con. Too few patriots realise that there's a bigger picture and that immigrants are not the enemy.

Originally posted by Cythraul
. It really is part of a bigger picture... so I don't know why I bother wasting time on specific issues like immigration. Actually, that's part of the divide and distract con. Too few patriots realise that there's a bigger picture and that immigrants are not the enemy.

Well I'm glad to hear you say so.

I think we struggle against the day-to-day things and the things we see and hear around us because we Can and because we can interact and it's something that's tangible.
Concepts and problems like those you mentioned above seem so far removed from us and from our control that people just can't comprehend them and therefore often don't think about them.

This is why people get bogged down in the divide and conquer stuff.. and the tribalistic stuff and you can even see this in effect with football fans and the violence that used to be much worse than it is now.
People like to feel part of something and it's good to all feel like you are united against something, you all share a common bond and common ground and you will defeat the invading/foreign threat.

This goes for race, left/right, sexuality, football..... many, many different things.


Things are only going to get worse too with the economy going the way it is and the financial systems essentially eroding away day by day.

*Sigh*

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by yaluk
reply to post by colin42

 

Mental imbalances does not cause racism it just enhances it. Mental imbalance causes loss of yourself control and being able to think with a clear mind.

if she had sexist tendencies she would have gone off on that. some people would have gotten physical as they don't care too much for words.

Please don't try to excuse her true self that was unbound and un inhibited by her mental imbalance.

the gates to her mind were open and a very dirty part of hers was revealed for all the world to see.

a shame.

freedom of speech though so game on. I would much rather know what a person really thinks instead of putting up a front but that is just me.

edit on 30-11-2011 by yaluk because: (no reason given)

Very rarely is one person so incorrect on so many points on one post.


That's like saying that a homeless shopping bag lady, or man, suffering from a mental illness would have prefered to be a homeless shopping bag lady before developing a mental illness but didn't bother doing it until she developed a mental illness.

edit on 1-12-2011 by steveknows because: Typo

/facepalm

really ?? really?? did that make sense as your wrote it?? if it did... REALLY??

how is that even the same thing?? how? I cannot even begin to understand the mental gymnastics you made to come up with that.

people do not become homeless because they develop a mental illness.... they become homeless they run out of money and can't take care of themselves cuz of the mental illness...

and I knew an old man who at his old age went senile and started giving all his stuff away because he thought his kids were trying to kill him to keep his stuff. so he figured if he gave all his stuff away they would not kill him.. He said this when he was in his mid 50s by his 70s his mind was going.

In this case this man had the fear people wanting his stuff, now that he is old and close to death his dementia set in and he acted on his fear..

and viola I prove my point

jesus make it easy for me.

Wanted: more immigrants to boost British economy

www.independent.co.uk...

Originally posted by blupblup
She didn't mention the woman's race.... British people are not "only" white you know.... I know in your little mind they are, the only "pure" Brits are white... but in reality British people are made up of every race and colour.

Who said black people couldn't be British? Not me.

What do you know about me and my family to make such an insulting assertion about my beliefs?

You are taking pot shots at me that I certainly don't deserve, but then, I'm glad I'm not as blinded by politcal correctness as you appear to be. You are the type that sees racism everyhere. You aren't part of the solution. You are a problem.

What makes someone British? Largely a loyalty to Britain, a thing that many immigrant British people quite possibly, UK passport or not, don't have.

Some of them are even white immigrants.

Go figure.

FYI

Emma has not been released after her second hearing despite being told this is no place for her and is makeing her condition worse.

They have one last chance to get Emma released friday at CROWN court. Failure to get her released then means she is not going to spend Xmas with her family and children.

She is in fact a political prisoner found guilty by U-tube.

For some this will be good news but for those with a heart I am sure you will be as disgusted as I am at the uneven handedness in Britain today.

A guy puts a women in a wheelchair breaking her neck and back because she spilt his cider and not only do they reduce the maximum sentance he will face to 5 years instead of 30 they defer the sentance until after xmas so he can spend time with his family.

Emma who is mentally ill is looking at xmas inside for a verbal outburst. Now that's justice in the UK today.

Originally posted by colin42
FYI

Emma has not been released after her second hearing despite being told this is no place for her and is makeing her condition worse.

They have one last chance to get Emma released friday at CROWN court. Failure to get her released then means she is not going to spend Xmas with her family and children.

She is in fact a political prisoner found guilty by U-tube.

For some this will be good news but for those with a heart I am sure you will be as disgusted as I am at the uneven handedness in Britain today.

A guy puts a women in a wheelchair breaking her neck and back because she spilt his cider and not only do they reduce the maximum sentance he will face to 5 years instead of 30 they defer the sentance until after xmas so he can spend time with his family.

Emma who is mentally ill is looking at xmas inside for a verbal outburst. Now that's justice in the UK today.

wow..!!!

I can't believe it.. they are forcing her to be institutionalized for a rant on a bad day.. and miss the holidays with her children?

She didn't hurt anyone..she spoke her mind.. for how she felt that day..and she gets worse treatment than the arse who put a woman in a wheelchair?

I'm really sad for her and her family collin..and it doesn't seem fair..I don't know what else to say except that this is too much.

She may have crossed the line as far as some people think..but to deny her Christmas with her family is just plain cruel.. get her the hell out of there before they totally pump her system with all sorts of toxins...they don't give a crap about her.. just about making money...and they won't be satisfied that she is ok..until she is totally so drugged up that she has no emotions left.

Unfortunately most lawyers only care about money as well.. ..but maybe you can find one that truly is an advocate for the human rights of someone such as Emma.

reply to post by gabby2011

Her partner says the court erupted after hearing the case and the judges decision. They were outraged at the unfairness but this is not about justice at all. I fear Perry Mason could not get her out.

Her long time partner is at his wits end which is affecting his job and soon I fear his health and their families the same but they are not getting any support other than that they give each other.

This is more about placating the 'tolerant' people calling for her blood.

I suspect she is being sacrificed to placate the racial unrest bubbling away in Croydon at the moment. The problem is it will only cause more as this can only feed the racists on both sides of the issue and Emma's outburst on the tram is incidental to the agendas being pursued but she and her family are paying the price and a high one at that

reply to post by colin42

This is more about placating the 'tolerant' people calling for her blood.

So are you saying she is going to jail?

I misunderstood you.. I thought they were forcing her to stay institutionalized until they felt she was ok ( and I don't always agree with the methods the use to "help")..and I don't see that as fair either.. she needs to be with family for the holidays.

Sorry for the misunderstanding..maybe you could clarify a little.

EDIT:
Its ok..I understand..this was the court case.. I thought you were talking about them keeping her in psychiatric care..and wouldn't let her visit family for the holidays..

My bad..

reply to post by iHaveAwoken

Does this young lady have a formal diagnosis for her 'in balance' as you put it? I would be interested to hear your response. If this young lady does have mental health problems then it is very sad, however, mental illness cannot be used as a shield to hide behind when wrong is done. It is only highly floridly psychotic and delusional people that are not aware of what they are doing or saying. If the young lady in question was so, then I highly doubt that her Psychiatrist would have been happy to let her leave alone, let alone with her young son. From a professional point of view from watching the clip in the video, this woman seems to have mental capacity and is in control of what she is saying and doing.

Oh for crying out loud..I've heard worse things come out of parents mouths at a peewee hockey game.. Get off your high horse..

Should we round them all up and handcuff them for saying nasty things in front of children..some of which are racist?

The holier than thou Racist accusation BS is really pushing it.. and even if she was not dealing with mental issues at the time..I've heard way worse.

People need to learn to ignore angry remarks.. and when they provoke someone who is tired and had a hard day..they should remember what they sound like at times like this when someone pushes their buttons.

By the way...how very presumptuous of you to think she took her child to the doctor with her..maybe she picked him at a sitters after?..or maybe the doctor allows her son along..because he knows she has no childcare..?

Wow ..talking about showing intolerance and judgment ....Did you call yourself a professional?