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Death

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posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by DrinkYourDrug
Agreed. I would suggest that anyone who hopes for an eternal afterlife hasn't really thought it all the way through. Once you've seen everything there is to see, done everything there is to do, for the ten trillionth time, and realise you're just getting started on eternity, you're going to want to get off that ship.


Then again, when you were an embryo, and then a fetus, you could've never imagined driving a car, falling in love, or being blown away by a beautiful experience that you'd been completely unprepared for. By that stage of your development, your whole understanding of reality could be summed up as visceral impressions - if anything whatsoever - and certainly nothing that compares to the level of textured cognition that you possess now. And yet, it was the fullness of reality for the you that you were at the time.

Now, I certainly don't feel as if I have to defend the fact that once your initial 9 month gestational development phase completed, you automatically transitioned from that limited, almost parasitic level of corporeal life to the fully viable level of life that you enjoy today. It gets ludicrous at times on this forum, but let's agree - even if only to prevent aimless digression - that you were born, and that since being born, your capacity for experience and associated rumination has progressively developed from year to year. Let's also agree that your present capacity for experience and associated rumination far exceeds anything that you could've possibly achieved while in utero.

What I'm trying to accomplish here is to point out that you've already made a similarly extreme (and automatic) physical transition as a human being; one that didn't require you to cease to exist in specific identity, or lose any of what you'd gathered to yourself in physical development to that point of transition, even as it revolutionized your capacity to experience what it means to exist. Now, I know that it may seem a bit counterintuitive to the mind that is fully engaged in development via corporeal existence, but to suggest that corporeal death can't be compared to or possibly even progressively associated with the extreme automatic transition of birth is to suggest that redundant, predictable (and similarly automatic) progressive development itself is either divine micromanagement or lucky chaos - which seem to both be pretty extreme views to hold when aggressively considering the clear evidence to the contrary. Unless you demand that the human being, alone, defies the entire existential structure that hosts it, and for no reason.

The difference between your own progressive development, and the kind of progressive development that exists around you (trees growing, seeding, dying, and being replaced by other trees as an in-kind progressive development of trees in general) is that you're building, and have been building, quite a substantial catalog of not only impressions and experiences, but also uniquely configured associations between all that you've experienced and perceived, and these configurations are unique to you, and only you. They are much too contextually isolated to be simply passed off into - who knows - an ethereal data vault that contains similarly isolated configurations from literally every other human being that's ever existed on this and/or every other possible planet, universe, or reality confine. Not if your progression is to follow the in-kind protocols of all other progressively developed wholes that surround us.

This is due to the fact that authorship, for these configurations, is a primary aspect of identity, and as actively produced (and in most cases specifically tasked) configurations with no logical halflife - dynamic eternal physical existence, as it were - the requirements involving identity are primordial in significance, making inimitable Identity a survival essential that won't allow dissolution of authorship (presenting that authorship as a primary delineation vanguard) regardless of the philosophical arguments to the contrary. It may seem a bit complicated, but it's akin to what keeps a cow from having kittens, or vice versa. Identity is critical to existential emergence and survival.

What this all means is that it is pretty likely that your conscious identity - the combination and impact of all the experience and rumination influenced configurations you've created, joined in common authorship as an identified whole - will survive the coming physical transition intact. Much like the emergence of the viable you (sans placenta) when you were born. Don't forget that you were hardwired into that placenta, but when the time came, it became just like your present body will become; unnecessary and something you left behind as you began a completely new version of conscious life.

We live on after death, but who knows what that means. We only know what other embryos think it means.
edit on 12/1/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 1 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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On Death
Kahlil Gibran

You would know the secret of death.
But how shall you find it unless you seek it in the heart of life?
The owl whose night-bound eyes are blind unto the day cannot unveil the mystery of light.
If you would indeed behold the spirit of death, open your heart wide unto the body of life.
For life and death are one, even as the river and the sea are one.


In the depth of your hopes and desires lies your silent knowledge of the beyond;
And like seeds dreaming beneath the snow your heart dreams of spring.
Trust the dreams, for in them is hidden the gate to eternity.
Your fear of death is but the trembling of the shepherd when he stands before the king whose hand is to be laid upon him in honour.
Is the shepherd not joyful beneath his trembling, that he shall wear the mark of the king?
Yet is he not more mindful of his trembling?


For what is it to die but to stand naked in the wind and to melt into the sun?
And what is it to cease breathing, but to free the breath from its restless tides, that it may rise and expand and seek God unencumbered?


Only when you drink from the river of silence shall you indeed sing.
And when you have reached the mountain top, then you shall begin to climb.
And when the earth shall claim your limbs, then shall you truly dance.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


I do believe in the concept of the Akashic Records, or as (I think you call them) the Information Continuum).

But for the identity to live on as strongly as you suggest NE it would suggest that memories themselves are somehow hard wired into the soul. What if they are not.....?

Identity is made up of:

1.your initial personality and

2. your memory of events you were involved in and how they turned out.

If your memory is purely a physical thing stored in the brain, this would explain why (assuming reincarnation exists) you have no knowledge of your previous life when you reborn on this physical plane, yet everyone has such a strongly ingrained personality from the very start. Loss of these memories, at least as being particular to you (here I am assuming after death you do have open access to the Akashic Records), would represent a significant loss of the identity you had built up over the course of one particular lifetime.

What if the the only thing you took from one life to the next were the changes various realizations made throughout life had upon your eternal undying soul, but not the memories which lead to those particular realizations.....?



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


That fertilized eggs have less self awareness than adult humans does not prove or even increase the likelihood of an afterlife where the identity you have created for yourself goes off to live for eternity, no matter how much convoluted language is used to describe it.


What this all means is that it is pretty likely that your conscious identity - the combination and impact of all the experience and rumination influenced configurations you've created, joined in common authorship as an identified whole - will survive the coming physical transition intact.

Your conscious identity is an abstraction created by the brain and ceases the moment the brain creating it dies.

We live on after death because there is nothing that is not who we really are.



posted on Dec, 2 2011 @ 10:09 PM
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Originally posted by 1littlewolf
reply to post by NorEaster
 


I do believe in the concept of the Akashic Records, or as (I think you call them) the Information Continuum).

But for the identity to live on as strongly as you suggest NE it would suggest that memories themselves are somehow hard wired into the soul. What if they are not.....?

Identity is made up of:

1.your initial personality and

2. your memory of events you were involved in and how they turned out.


I would immediately note that the notion of the existence of an "initial personality" deeply clashes with my own belief that progressive development is the only means by which such a sophisticated manifestation can possibly emerge. As far as the memories being anything other than locally stored - locally accessed residual information (brought into physical existence by the "event" that conscious thought is as a reaction/response/initiation expression), again, it'd be easier to allow you your own translation of what my views are, but I have a serious responsibility to ensure that my views on this and associated subjects aren't misunderstood on a public forum.

Memories are not dynamic information, and they aren't conscious. They do not follow the human being into the eternal realm. Memories are static residual representations of the actual dynamic intellect configuration bursts that the brain created either in direct response to what was seen, heard, felt, tasted, smelled, and then immediately associated with memory in most cases, launching a progressively developing event/information trajectory, or in direct response to the active initiation of purely original notions crafted from unique combinations of established residual data clusters (memory) and launched into dynamic existence as a result of the activity that your brain engages in constantly on behalf of your own corporeal whole. What I am trying to say - in my own hyper-cautious manner - is that Memory is like all simple residual information configurations - malleable and divisible - with the only difference being that memory is brought into existence by the very specific event of the highest-level activity (that being conscious awareness) that the brain engages in.

The stuff I call Intellect isn't the same as memory, and is only related to memory in the sense that each incident of Intellect is directly responsible for the emergence of it - much like every event causes the fully textured fact set of that event's occurrence to emerge in immediate response. Memory is stored within the carbon material of the brain itself - as local as all residual data within the Informational Continuum naturally is - for the very critical additional reason that the brain employs that residual information in its relentless effort to ensure the survival of the corporeal whole that maintains and nourishes that brain in return. It's very simple - as far as anything is simple for the brain of the most advanced corporeal category of brain-equipped material beings - but it's not hard to lose the simplicity of it all when it's your own brain trying to get a handle on how it all has developed in direct reaction to reality's most basic and primordial of corporeal requirements.


If your memory is purely a physical thing stored in the brain, this would explain why (assuming reincarnation exists) you have no knowledge of your previous life when you reborn on this physical plane, yet everyone has such a strongly ingrained personality from the very start. Loss of these memories, at least as being particular to you (here I am assuming after death you do have open access to the Akashic Records), would represent a significant loss of the identity you had built up over the course of one particular lifetime.


Everything that can be directly associated with the physical is purely physical. Again, not easy to defend within the confines of a forum post, but I have done the work and it is published. A memory is purely residual in physical structure, and does not accompany the human being upon death. It remains part of the Informational Continuum, and always will. That said, what each memory factually represents is what is joined in indivisible congress as the fully developed human being. All of the actual intellectual expression bursts themselves. When you die, this is what you'll always have at hand - as well as the full capacity to directly and actively ruminate within the whole of it for new revelation.

I've run out of room, but I hope that what I've stated helps you better understand the relationship between conscious thought and memory. One is "alive and aware" and the other is static informational reaction to an event that's occurred. That event being the creation of conscious thought.
edit on 12/2/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by DrinkYourDrug
reply to post by NorEaster
 


That fertilized eggs have less self awareness than adult humans does not prove or even increase the likelihood of an afterlife where the identity you have created for yourself goes off to live for eternity, no matter how much convoluted language is used to describe it.


What this all means is that it is pretty likely that your conscious identity - the combination and impact of all the experience and rumination influenced configurations you've created, joined in common authorship as an identified whole - will survive the coming physical transition intact.

Your conscious identity is an abstraction created by the brain and ceases the moment the brain creating it dies.

We live on after death because there is nothing that is not who we really are.


On this board, all anyone can do is make statements. The medium doesn't allow for anyone to fully detail why they know what they know. That works for some posters and against other posters. Believe me, the task of detailing the proof that birth and death are not only similar, but actually linked progressive stages that the human being moves through, requires a medium that is much more comprehensive than this forum will ever be. You are invited to U2U me for a link to an ebook that does successfully accomplish that effort. It's your choice to do so, but I firmly stand behind my statement that this is the true relationship between birth and death, and that the fully viable human being must make both transitions before achieving that viability. I've proven it, and I'm comfortable with what I've discovered and detailed within that ebook.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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Death is like a chicken sandwich...delicious and breaded...who know's where we're headed? Spicy or grilled? Delicious and filled.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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We have no way of knowing but one thing I am sure of is that no one has come back (in my family or other peoples families I know) to let us know?



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by redkarma
We have no way of knowing but one thing I am sure of is that no one has come back (in my family or other peoples families I know) to let us know?


If a fetus could ruminate on the truth of life, most would feel around their tiny confines and declare "This is all there is. It's obvious that this is the whole of what can possibly exist, and no one's come back to prove otherwise." Meanwhile, some of them imagine the magnificent nature of the soft voices that seem almost to be speaking directly to them from beyond their own tenuous grasp of reality. And the Mozart...to those fetuses so blessed with daily doses...obviously the sounds of Heaven itself.

Humans see what they see, translate what they do see as best they can, and some hope for something more than what can be proven. Some of that more has come to pass - heavier than air human flight, human rights (in specific circumstances), and a palpable level of global demand for universal social justice - so it's not as if all unproven potentials are innately ludicrous. The impossible has a pretty good track record of upending the definition of real, so I'm always leery of denying what may seem, at 1st blush, to be simple wishful thinking. just so long as it won't violate any established existential tenet in its effort to achieve full manifestation.



posted on Dec, 3 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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I've often wondered if the theory of the big crunch could be right, and when it happens, the big bang happens again, and we do it all again in an endless cycle (might explain Deja Vu).

One things for certain, if I die halfway through a television series I have got into, I will be slightly annoyed.



posted on Dec, 4 2011 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by woogleuk
 


I once read somewhere a long time ago (so I'v completely forgotten the source and a quick search now couldn't locate it) that in Hindu cosmology the universe had so far gone through 4 cycles so far and that we are in the 5th.

As it stands at the moment with measurements of critical density (which can only be made from the viewpoint of us here on Earth, and it is a very very big universe) and theories surrounding dark energy it is not at present supported observationally, but most scientists will admit that they do not know enough about anything to say for sure one way or the other.

I personally lean toward it but this is purely from an intuitive stand. It seems to make more sense and feels a little more logical. But who knows....maybe a cold lifeless universe forever expanding outwards is what we are eventually destined for.......



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