What happened to ATS?

I have been a member since 2004. In the past year or so I have seen a lot of flaming and negativity. When I post a thread I clearly state upfront the purpose of that thread yet they got derailed. Poverty and helping the poor is not a controverisal topic but everytime I post about this topics that are close to my heart I get a discussion that is unintended. I am sick of the judgements and sick of people blaming the poor. I hate my threads being derailed.
I feel if a person creates a thread they should be able to have some say in what is off limits. In my posts I do no want any negative judgemental feedback while I hate censorship I feel this is a huge issue.
I have a good repuation on here but I am sick of getting so offended and sometimes even crying. It hurts that a site that I thought accepted me and all people really doesn't. Why can't we have higher expectations than prison planet or those other whacko right wing sites. I am pretty sure most on ats are not right wing whackos.
What can be done to fix this problem. I post a lot about those things that are close to my heart I don't want to have to feel like I should creating threads due to this. If we have the censorship sensor why can't we have an off topic sensor or something that does not allow posts to get way off topic. I am poor, disabled and gay so I am SICK of hearing negative judgemental comments about these subjects. I post to help others understand something or because I feel something is interesting. I hate the fact that my posts end up being self defensive and a long speech about human compassion. What can be done? I am VERY frustrated!! This is supposed to be an OPEN minded forum. NO NEGATIVE COMMENTS. Thanks.

I understand how you feel. Too often I make a response that is logical or well thought out... and the thread dies. Almost Like I am the kiss of death...

I think a lot of it comes from so may members not being critical thinkers, or being able to be objective, or just being able to make a convincing argument and support it... so they turn to insults or red herrings to divert the argument or debate.

Sadly, so many member's paradigms are framed in only YouTube or the Internet... and not with a historical or academic or literary perspective.

I know I am not alone, for it has been a long time since I have seen the names of some of the strongest contributors to ATS, some of which are almost legend here...

In my humble opinion, ATS took a sharp turn into uncharted waters when they went Live on Facebook in a bizarre merge of two subcultures from opposite ends of the earth. I prefer the old dark ATS over its current bubbly form.

I have also seen the posts in threads turn vicious against individual members with no attention to the OP or the topic whatsoever. Just a hit and run mentality with no desire to contribute. It is especially prevent in the Political Forums.

I just hope ATS does not add a "what's on your mind?" status update feature. Hey everyone! I just farted. Neato!

reply to post by jibeho


That is exactly what happened in my thread I was suddenly being judged. I felt caught off guard because I felt I did the respectful thing and posted a seperate thread on an issue that branched off from another thread. This is my escape for the judgemental world. I get so disheartened when I am judged so much in real life that this board helps me feel more accepted.
I live in the bible belt very conservative area and people here are not very intellectual. I get on here for the intellectual outlet I need. I believe there are always several solutions to any question or problem presented yet some on here just want to resort to stereotypes.

reply to post by dreamseeker


Where you see "right wing" people i see just human beings. Where you see Prison Planet as full of right wing whakos, I see the government people infiltrating Prison Planet for that purpose.

Sometimes you just need to pull back the curtain a little. You will be suprised at what you find

I have not been here very long so I will tread lightly with my opinion.

Over my short tenure as a member I have noticed that many individuals simply can not agree to disagree without getting defensive. The mere suggestion of performing fact based research before forming an opinion is barely tolerated. It seems as if many individuals would rather spend their time coming up with creative ways to disparage each other via off-topic arguments rather than put their energy into well thought out logic and debate.

Perhaps most individuals do not know the difference.

Perhaps there should be pre-registration membership requirements.

Popularity.

Popularity happened to ATS.

I agree with OP. I am pretty new here and enjoyed reading many threads before I joined. Then when I posted something that was very dear to me, something that was a very personnal experience I got ran over. Total disrespect of my feelings. I don't care if you don't agree with my views. I do take it personnal when you attack me for what I believe.

So I have stopped sharing anything that is personnal here. And by personnal I mean things that I hold very close to me and define who I am.

reply to post by TheMindWar


I don't mean all right wing people I mean the ones who are extreme. Extremes are bad on either end of the spectrum. On prison planet I was sent a virus just because I did not agree with someone on there how is that for being extreme? I was blocked and banned for speaking my opinions on censorship and poverty. I was never hateful or judgemental just open and honest. There is a difference if you see my latest thread you will see what I mean where some attacked me upfront.

Well yall know when the CIA gets its hands on something it gos in the crapper. I lurked for a long time(2006) before signing up and I also noticed the change in threads and posts when FB was brought to the stage on ATS.

reply to post by dreamseeker


You "live in the Bible Belt... not very intellectual" ... and yet they "resort to stereotypes"... really? Imagine that.

I live in the Bible Belt also... and in my community we have a naval physicist, an engineer that designed submarines, a banker and real estate developer, several EMS and nursing professional... and I don't mean they draw blood but save lives, a couple of architects, and a computer programmer... oh, and a retired professor...oh, and my wife is in charge of a cancer research facility... yup... just a bunch of backwoods rednecks.

I guess I just reinforced the premise of the OP...

reply to post by dreamseeker

Kinda agree and disagree...but do hear what you're saying.

I've been an ATS Member since waaaay back in the day when Simon Gray first set it up as a discussion forum about aircraft and such...over 11 years ago...

I'm also the only remaining original Moderator of the three (krill and greykiller were the other two - long since gone) that were first appointed by Simon...so yeah, I'm pretty much part of the furniture.


We can wax lyrical all day...but at the end of it ATS is like anything else, it waxes and wanes, it chops and changes, new people, new faces...the only constant is always going to be change itself.


People come, go, stay, return...again, change.


If I had one *regret* it'd be that, as a Mod, sometimes I'm too busy doing 'Mod stuff' to get engaged in discussion...time constraints with real life pretty much only offers brief windows of any real engagement...but again, thats life, thats change...


Perhaps then thats a challenge for me - to actually make some time soley for getting back in and engaging...shooting the breeze...getting our teeth back into the discussions rather than overseeing them as much...as ultimately - again like anything - it is what you make of it.



Cheers...and it is good to have had you onboard for so long...

I have not been around as long as you ( I joined late 07) but something I see is that negativity on ATS comes in waves. I am not sure why that it is, but sometimes I notice an increase in trolling, during school breaks.... I do not think there is any coincidence.

I admit, I have seen an increase in crappy posts and I honestly blame the more veteran members such as myself.... I wonder if the newer members see crappy posts and think that is how they are supposed to post as well.

It is members such as you and I who should lead by example. Be the change you wish to see. There are some who have gotten caught up in who has the biggest name or who has the most posts.... It is not about that though.

We are here to provide quality content. Quality over quantity is a big thing and denying ignorance, while not as obvious as it used to be, is still this sites Motto ( I would like to see ATS) have that motto painted on this site in even more places than they do....

The most I can say is to please keep posting. Be the example of the kind of post you wish to see. Show the newer members and everyone else what a true quality ATS post looks like. Show what a true ATSer is capable of. Always respond with civility, even when dealing with Trolls.

Be the change you wish to see.

It sounds like you could stand a small break. I even take breaks from ATS from time to time because it can and does become overwhelming. Those breaks ( lasting anywhere from a few hours all the way up to a week) always leave me feeling refreshed and I am able to go about posting with an open mind again and don't feel the need to beat my head against a brick wall.


But in the long run, things do change a bit.... Members come and go..... Just take a look at my signature. The one thing that never changes is the fact that things will always change....

It will go back to how you like it...But you know, things are bound to change and be different for a while.

Peace and love.

Your post really hit home with me. I have also had my fill of judgments about people who are 'different'. I don't think the majority of people (in the real world) are really that angry and judgmental. It's just that those kind of people are attracted to the idea of an anonymous forum where they can say what they want and not face any real consequences. In real life, bullying doesn't go over so well...

The position I have come to take is that if I'm looking for intelligent and courteous discussion (and I mean courtesy in the real sense, not just obeying the T&C) I'm probably not going to find it here. Yes, there are 'gems'', in the way of posters and threads, but to find the gems, you have to dig through a lot of ... other stuff, much of which is offensive and negative, but doesn't violate the T&C. That's why I don't participate as much as I used to. I don't need the negativity in my life. I used to be a prolific poster, but things change. ATS has changed. It's only natural. I have to either reset my expectations or go somewhere else (real or cyber) for the kind of discussions I want to have, free of hatred, ignorance and rage.

I know there was a time when the membership of ATS was respectful and courteous, for the most part, but it was because that's what the membership wanted. They did it voluntarily. ATS (as with any Internet forum) is what the members make it, combined with what the owners will allow. It is what it is. But having expectations that it's something else or should be something else, will just disappoint. Trust me.

I accept it for what it is and post when I see something interesting, entertaining or fun.

Don't let the negativity and judgments get to you. Please! It's not worth it.

reply to post by getreadyalready


No I am not saying that people can't disagree with me. I like balanced opionions I hate thread that only has one set of opionions without presenting the opposite. People need to be mature and responsible with their words. My latest thread is a perfect example where some people disagreed maturely and others resorted to insults.
When a member is hurt buy others judgements that is when it is time to say enough of the insults. To say I am lazy because I am poor, I do not deserve help or that the poor is lazy is plain hurtful. There is no need for that.
I am not sure on what planet it is ok to want human's to suffer? It scares that some on ATS would rather see the poor die on the stree than support them with "their tax dollars." It is beyond sad.
Everyone needs an escape and an outlet. The computer is mine. I present the ideas to discuss them in an intellectual and productive manner. People don't talk about these topics much in real life.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
To say I am lazy because I am poor, I do not deserve help or that the poor is lazy is plain hurtful. There is no need for that.

Couldn't agree with you more.

Personal opinion: One of the potential downfalls of such immediate - and often pretty much anonymous - engagement via the internet is I think people sometimes either forget they are talking with real living people, with hearts, emotions and so forth...or some people, due to the detached nature of internet discussion, aren't so conscious of the impact of their actions/words.
Or - maybe they feel that they can just be a bit of a prick and not have to worry about what they may cause within the other person...

Too much inner-focus, inner opinion, lack of deeper consideration and brain engagement prior to mouth (or fingers as the case is online) engagement...and not enough focus on what the potential ripples are once they've clicked that *reply* button...


By all means we have opinions and a need to share them...thats why we're here...but, that old chestnut: "Tis not what you say, but how you say it that matters".


There's enough poison already in the world...don't see a need to be tossing any more into the mix, or at eachother...



Cheers.

reply to post by dreamseeker


I agree. I have had people sometimes say mean things to me here, and I'll admit, when I first joined, my feelings got hurt a LOT However, as time went on, I learned to toughen up....and I TRY to ignore the people who seem to only get on here to cause trouble (though I'm not always successful!) I don't know why some people do this. I joke and sometimes tease people if it's just something downright silly, but when I know the person is being sincere, I would never do that. I have read many of your posts, and you have a good heart. People suffering is a hot button issue with me too. Just try to ignore and keep speaking out on what you feel passionate about, and don't let let some doofus stand in your way

I don't anything has happened to ats that can't be directly correlated to the evolution of the internet.

The web opens the door for all voices to be heard and expand ... yet within this expansion dilution and repetition are considerable forces that make original and creative thought harder to locate in a sea of copy paste.

Same here ... yet if one is authentically interested in finding the more marginal and original constructs and feelings emoted, they just need to dig into the vast database of ATS. The only thing that's really changed is the need for more effort and a bigger shovel.

Evolution happens, yet it's fruits aren't always the ones we want to eat.

And none of it is personal ... unless of course one chooses it to be so.

I have been on ATS since February of 05 and I know exactly what you are talking about.

From my POV it seems it got taken over by the neo-con ultra right during and since the last presidential campaign. It has attracted a lot of corporate bootlickers that seem to not give a rip about people.

I find these people to be nearly frightening in the way they think. Anything for the people is socialistic hippy mindset and is rejected. Anything humane is rejected. Anything about being kind to nature is seen as a (treehugging left wing liberal). They do not believe in anything decent just aggressive competitive corporate behavior.

I never thought so many could think like this. Its becoming kinda creepy.