Too white to study medicine

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
reply to post by RedGod

 

The admissions process was based on race, not economic status. While there may be a certain overlap in these two categories, it clearly states that Indians from two provinces and Africans and coloureds from all provinces would be favoured. There was nothing at all about favouring people from underdeveloped parts of the country, therby making your point rather redundant.

Did Africa and India suddenly flourish while I wasn't looking? Or am I reading the article wrong?

reply to post by Maslo


You have to understand how racism works in South Africa, it's backwards which I guess makes it OK according the Rothschilds/Oppenheimers and the ANC.

Affirmative Action programs are generally put in place to help minorities and the disenfranchised. In South Africa AA, helps the majority, which is directly inverse to the primary goal of such programs. BEE is another one of the ANC's weird programs that require all businesses to be majority "black" owned and between BEE and AA sets the rules for university entry.

So of course all this crap flows down into the education system in South Africa. If I remember right the determination rules for university qualification starts generally with race;

1st choice: Black
2nd choice: Asian/Coloured/Indian
3rd choice: White/European

Then there are rules to determine merit;

1st choice: Upper 30 percentile of Blacks
2nd choice: Upper 20 percentile of Asian/Coloured/Indian
3rd choice: Upper 5 percentile of Whites/Europeans

What this does is deliberately take Blacks who have 70% or better and fill most of the universities, the 80% or greater Asian/Coloured/Indian students generally get most of what is left over. If anything is left over after all this, the Whites/Europeans get in.

When it comes to reverse racism, South Africa is the "Zoo Extraodinaire." They still have a problem with Xenophobia amongst themselves, in that the allegedly native/indigenous population, rape and murder people migrating from Zimbabwe, Nigeria, Mozambique, etc. At one point the Zulu, Xotha, Soto and Bantu were all killing each other off.

The ANC fosters this kind of racism as it keeps the country divided on issues of race amongst the population. If the population were to truly examine their government and act upon what they found, the ANC would be short lived. They would probably be hacked to death with axes, crushed with pangas or as Winnie Mandela developed and promoted, necklaced using an old tire and some gasoline (which I have personally seen done).

Imagine what would happen in any first world country where all other races were denied education, unless there was space after whites and the whites were in addition given a lower entry grade. Oh wait, that did happen, it resulted in nationwide protests called the civil rights movement. Since this wasn't right for the US, Canada, Europe or anywhere else, why is it OK for South Africa?

Because we live in Bizzarro World!

Cheers - Dave

Is it just me, or does it seem as though white people today are paying the consequences for what our great great grandfathers did way back in the day? I’m pretty sure my great great grandfather didn’t have slaves. Give it a good 20-30 years, and white people will be the minority. Does that mean that I will get all those wonderful opportunities I can’t get now because I’m white?

Originally posted by Maslo
So I guess racism is OK when its against white people? Disgusting...

edit on 28/11/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

It's really funny how upset white people get when they're discriminated against. ...this girl didn't get into some college because they're trying to make sure they help black people too. But this one little thing is "DISGUSTING!".

Where's your thread about all the blacks who don't get jobs because they're black???
That happens waaay more often and is definitely the more prevalent social issue.
You don't have enough disgust about that to make a thread?

Originally posted by Propulsion
Give it a good 20-30 years, and white people will be the minority.

and the beat will go on.
I'm sure there's some other planet in the universe where the blacks and browns are the power majority and the whites are slowly "taking over". And doesn't that point out the silliness of the whole race argument?

reply to post by 1ifbyland2ifbydebitcard

It's really funny how upset white people get when they're discriminated against.

Shouldnt they?

Where's your thread about all the blacks who don't get jobs because they're black??? That happens waaay more often and is definitely the more prevalent social issue. You don't have enough disgust about that to make a thread?

I dont see what can be done about it short of outlawing it (which it already is). If people are racist, nothing much can be done. But the state should never be racist. There is a world of difference between hardly provable racism between people in private lives, and institutionalised state-sanctioned racist discrimination such as affirmative action. This is a public university, not private company.
Besides, white people are a minority in South Africa, and they are also a minority among the countrys higher class. So this is surely not an issue there.

Originally posted by RedGod
Did Africa and India suddenly flourish while I wasn't looking? Or am I reading the article wrong?

Statistically, white people are more likely to be economically better off in South Africa, while black people are more likely to be poorer, but the economic background of an applicant isn't being used in the admission criteria of this university. It's solely race based.

A middle-class black or coloured applicant from an affluent area is going to get preferred at the expense of a white applicant from a poor background.

If they were trying to give people from less well-off backgrounds a leg-up into higher education, then there are much better methods of doing so, which wouldn't have included race-based discrimination.

Race will always be an issue in life. Anyone who believes otherwise is seriously neive and gullible.

Most of us are educated and morally civil enough to differentiate between color and content of character.

This is a quote I read somewhere but am unsure of who wrote it.............

"The spread of knowledge and education has taught mankind little in the art of self control and even less in living with one another"

To be honest the more knowledge some have is used obviously to create uncivil and unethical actions of double standards such as this topic.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Meritocracy was sacrificed on the altar "fairness, equality, and inclusion". This is why the world currently is in a nosedive.

I disagree with race discrimination for schooling, unless its law school. It's essential to make sure that everyone is represented in a law school. Black, white, arab, gay. This is because we need every type of laywer to ensure everyone gets fair representation.

Hypothetical Example: Law school must admit 5 blacks. Student X is white. X is more qualified than all but 2 black students, but less qualified of any white student. X doesn't get into school. In law I can agree with this. Med school, that's stretching it.

At the same time if she put that she was a race that is very under represented, I could see the reason for selecting her. Most people prefer to go to a doctor that is their race and gender. If the med school hasnt had a Samoan attend it's school in 3 years and one applies that is intelligent, they should be admitted. It's a rare circumstance, but I would agree with it.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Why can't people understand that making such a big issue out of race is only going to perpetuate and exacerbate any racial schism within society ?

This is exactly what I believe. If we want to actually eliminate racism, which is not possible in our generation, but for future generations, then we cannot keep separating the races in so many aspects. You cannot fill out any form without having to check of fill-in your race. For medical reasons this is understandable, but why for so many other areas?

And that is not the biggest problem area for racism, however I do not know what the biggest problem is. I used to think that racism would always perpetuate simply because as children grow up, they may associate an entire race by the actions of a few as opposed to many. It is at least possible. I suppose that parents teaching their children that everyone is equal is the best way to go.

As far as the article goes, hmmm...I just know that the NAACP would be offended if there were national attention placed on an "all-white" scholarship, and that is a problem from where I stand. How can we all be equal if organizations such as this one keep singling people out? I know that the majority of people are not racists, at least not to the point that they would discriminate based on color.

So what are we left with? We are left with happenings like the one in the article above.

One of the most frustrating aspects of this story is the Double Standards. Can you IMAGINE if somebody who was black was turned away from the scholarship because of their race?

Originally posted by SilentNoise
reply to post by PrimalRed

 

Actually it's for school, not scholarships. Scholarships can discriminate anyway they want, but being accepted in to secondary education should only be looking at grades, not what color your skin is or your gender etc.

I completely agree.... And then to take it away after realizing they are the "wrong race"? No.... They gave it to her...They need to honor that.

I wonder if it would be worth her talking to the ACLU....?

Hahahahahaa, everybody here on each side has the whole thing wrong. We're MISSING THE BIG PICTURE.

Originally posted by Maslo
Source

The University of Stellenbosch reversed its decision to grant a pupil a place in medical school - after discovering that she was white, not coloured, as she had mistakenly stated in her online application.

The 18-year-old applicant, who asked that she not be named, achieved six distinctions in her Grade 11 exams and, in September, learnt the university had accepted her application. But, on October 13, Dr Ronel Retief, the head of academic administration, phoned her to verify her race.

So I guess racism is OK when its against white people? Disgusting...

When will the people learn that two wrongs dont make a right? How can this kind of racial discrimination be legal in 21st century?

edit on 28/11/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

As a white pre-med student from a middle class background I partially disagree with you. Affirmative action is necessary in normalizing the presence of a previously shut out group of people be it race, gender, economic background, disability, etc. Without making special accommodations to bring such people into a profession they previously were essentially barred from then the process of desegregation takes much longer (if it happens at all.) Affirmative action doesn't mean taking an illiterate janitor at McDonald's and sending them to med school, it is a method of equalizing the playing field for those who may not have had an as privileged background.

I was fortunate to be raised in a stable two parent home. We weren't rich, but my parents were college educated and had an income that allowed us to live comfortably. My parents couldn't afford private school, but they moved to an area with a good public school system. My parents had the time, resources, and concern that allowed me to participate in lots of after school activities. They were also able to be involved in my clubs/teams/etc. Many of my friends weren't so fortunate. Whether it was having to go home after school to watch younger siblings, needing to get a part time job to help make ends meet, having parent(s) with more than one job which prevented them from staying after school, having an abusive/chaotic/destructive home life, or their family just not having the money for all the fees those activities required. They were by no means stupid, and several were smarter than me. I was by no means Ivy League bound, but at the end of high school I had a much nicer application package that was in many ways influenced by my middle class background.

A lot of these inequalities weren't inherently economic, but ended up impacting them financially. Without the leg up that affirmative action provides, many would still be stuck in the cycles that make poverty endemic to families/communities/etc. Test scores are not the sum of the individual, and the reality of economic influence on them means that equally intelligent people would be locked out of many opportunities for reasons out of their control. Not everyone can make their lives into an Oprah Book Club memoir, and to expect that of people disadvantaged beyond their control is unfair. So I am in a position that is for the most part disadvantaged by affirmative action, but I am a staunch supporter of it. Without it many good people would be stuck continuing a cycle that they are penalized for being born into.

That said, I do feel that affirmative action should not be permanent (the only exception IMO being those from a low economic strata.) Once the presence of previously unseen/unallowed minorities is at a reasonable proportion to the society at large then I feel that the biases that necessitated affirmative action in the first place will not be present at a level that will unfairly disadvantage a candidate.

*steps off my soapbox*

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by UnlimitedSky

 

that there are no differences between the soul that wears a white body and the soul that wears a black body

Bingo! Any seeming differences are cultural overlay from environment, but the soul within contains the spark of the Divine!

What a sweet feeling bubbles inside me when reading your reply.

If it is a spark, then it cames from the same fire as all other sparks. I like to see the soul as a drop of that Divine Ocean. Therefore all drops come from the same ocean and is in fact the same ocean.

Racial, sexual, class, religious and all other forms of discrimination falls away when we realise that. Also, add to that the fact that a soul might have worn a black body in a previous life, whereas it may be wearing a white body in this life. Where is the better or the worst now? A mere illusion!

reply to post by Maslo


She lied. Maybe she will lie about something else.

The core to any university is honesty. Lack of honesty is not good.

That said, I won't lie. I've done similar. Just not an exact lie.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Maslo

 

She lied. Maybe she will lie about something else.

The core to any university is honesty. Lack of honesty is not good.

That said, I won't lie. I've done similar. Just not an exact lie.

edit on 29-11-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

Once again, her lie (or mistake) is not the reason why her admission was rejected. The reason is her race, as per university policy.

I guess this just goes to show that the USA isnt the only one with these issues.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


So, I was reading that incorrectly.

My mistake.