Obesity Pandemic - Infectious, or Personal Responsibility?

reply to post by Evolutionsend

If we stop buying it, they'll stop making it.

Contaminated food is a big problem - but it's not the only source of prion infection, nor is it the only source of contaminants that create prions inside our bodies.

The NCD Pandemic and obesity are not just about diet and food.

.....Half the disease agents we're all exposed to come from vaccines and other medications.

EG., see: What Is Coming Through That Needle? The Problem of Pathogenic Vaccine Contamination

reply to post by wiredamerican

... I do believe obesity is a genetic condition

Obesity is more often epigenetic, and not carried in the DNA. ...Genetic researchers usually just look at the proteins involved in disease - because proteins are gene products, they kind of reverse engineer to find the gene and assume that if the protein is faulty the gene must be buggered. But that's not the case - far more often, faulty proteins have been infected by other infectious misfolded proteins.

reply to post by soficrow


This whole "obesity and high-cholesterol is caused by prions" doesn't make sense to me, Sofi.

Dyslipidemia, such as high-cholesterol or low-cholesterol, is generally caused by down/up-regulated LDL receptor sites, not from an over/under production of cholesterol. Familial Hypercholesterolemia, genetically derived high-cholesterol, is NOT caused by a gene that causes an overproduction of cholesterol. No. It's caused by a malfunctioning gene regulating LDL receptor activity. Therefore, LDL-Cholesterol builds up in the blood.

Not to mention that serum cholesterol concentration depends heavily upon thyroid production and metabolic rate as well.

I'm not saying Prion Disease and high-cholesterol aren't associated/correlated. It just doesn't make much sense to say that the concentration of serum cholesterol is altered by prions, much like it doesn't make sense to suggest dietary cholesterol has much effect on serum cholesterol. If Prions ARE causing increased cholesterol synthesis, then 1 of 2 things will happen: Either 1) The Prions will USE the extra cholesterol produced and/or 2) The body will compensate by producing less in other places, most likely the liver. In any case, there is a compensatory response that keeps serum cholesterol in check.

And, as far as obesity goes...can you please describe the biochemical processes associated with Prion Disease and Obesity? I'm really curious.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


....You describe bits, parts and aspects of healthy metabolic functioning along with disease-cascades, and conclude:

In any case, there is a compensatory response that keeps serum cholesterol in check.

Apparently not. There are several classifications of cholesterol diseases.

And, as far as obesity goes...can you please describe the biochemical processes associated with Prion Disease and Obesity? I'm really curious.

I'm sure you are. Unfortunately, chemistry is totally inadequate to describe the processes linking prion disease and obesity. Cutting edge work in the field is multi-disciplinary, integrating numerous scientific specialties from physics to systems analysis and beyond.

If you can wrap your head around the idea that a protein's shape determines its function, NOT its chemical make-up, you might begin to appreciate the disease processes.

reply to post by soficrow


Basically - if it comes from a monopoly corporation or from the government it's probably very, very, bad for you.

I agree with the previous poster that we cannot push 100% of the blame to only one extreme, both are at work here. Ultimately, at the end of the day you decide what goes into your mouth and your children's. I do believe that fast food corporations, chain stores, and the government purposefully refrain from educating us on all the dangers of these foods and drugs but that doesn't mean the information isn't out there. The vast majority of people in the US own a computer, and most that do not own one have access to FREE internet, the library. In a way, to me, it is shameful that we have almost all known information in the free world at our fingertips yet people are willfully ignorant. When McDonalds got sued for causing 2 teenage girls to become obese they said (paraphrasing), "It is common sense that fast food is bad for you, it's their fault", while it is not common knowledge that McD's has all sorts of chemicals, additives, and dangerous substances, it is common knowledge that a fast food diet is bad for you.

reply to post by Celestica


These disease agents are in the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat AND in the medications available to relieve disease symptoms.

I do not know where you live, or what kind of resources you have at your personal disposal, but I do know that the vast majority of this world's people are not in a position to "choose" whether or not to breathe air, drink water and eat food.

...Whatever you may think you're doing, you're just allowing corporate-industry to program your understanding and your thoughts. The "blame the victims" strategy is all about evading corporate liability - you're not just buying into it, you're helping to promote the bs.

reply to post by soficrow

Don't you think 200 pounds at 8 years old is fairly "blatant"?

Blatantly obvious the parent is overfeeding the child. And yes, I did read the OP. You say don't blame the victim and I agree. I don't blame the kid. I blame his negligent mother.

reply to post by soficrow

These disease agents are in the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat

So how come I'm not as fat as my neighbor? She's huge and I'm pretty sure we drink the same water and breathe the same air.

I am convinced, OP, that something besides exercise and diet is going on. a few years back I was with family, watching an old home film from the late '50's. My youthfull mom and dad were at a family party. Womenfolk were in the kitchen making heaps of mashed potatos, roasts, meatloafs, and breadrolls. Everyone there, men, women, pregnant, parents, and middle agers, were all --skinny-- . I mean, the way those Hollywood actors with their unreal figures are, now. Skinny. Not fit, not average.
I used to watch reruns on a TV station, of old Soul Train shows. Everyone on there is.........skinny. Not average, not fit, skinny.
I began noticing increasing weight gain with the general human population around the late '70's.

reply to post by Domo1

So how come I'm not as fat as my neighbor? She's huge and I'm pretty sure we drink the same water and breathe the same air.

And I'm pretty sure all your exposures are NOT the same - timing counts a lot too, especially for fetus exposure and children's exposures. ....I used to eat non-stop, and never gained an ounce - drove all my friends crazy. Just means different bodies have different ways of processing the same stuff.

But obesity IS a common symptom of now-pandemic diseases - not an absolutely guaranteed to happen symptom, but common nonetheless. Pandemic too.

reply to post by soficrow

But obesity IS a common symptom of now-pandemic diseases

Perhaps it is the cause and not a symptom.

reply to post by Saucerwench


I hear you.

FYI - besides the prion -> cholesterol -> obesity connection I described earlier, there are numerous microbes that cause obesity. Last time I researched it, I found 9. And NONE of them are regulated.

One of my favorites has been known to contaminate vaccines AND commercially available food chickens:

An avian retrovirus, RAV-7, causes a syndrome characterized by stunting, high mortality, and obesity.

and a good experiment for anyone to try if you can. Get ahold of very old footage, whether it be from your own family etc. I suppose still pics as well as moving film. From prior to I'd say abouts, 1973. Give-or-take. It looks like the population on another planet........

reply to post by Saucerwench


I don't think anyone is going to claim that the world isn't getting fatter. It obviously is. That (in my opinion) is because it is so much more convenient to get fast food (bad food) then cook yourself. Also all these modern conveniences keep us from actually working all day. How many people go home, microwave a horrible meal and spend the night watching TV? Probably about the same number of obese people.

I disagree with the OP. I think it's time to start blaming fat people for being fat. I'm getting a smidgen of beer belly and it's my own damn fault. I admit, why can't people who are obese?

reply to post by soficrow


That's actually an interesting link. It's an interesting thread too, but I really do believe that much of the ills of the world are caused by obesity, and that th majority of obese people are fat because they eat too much. NOt all, but most.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

....You describe bits, parts and aspects of healthy metabolic functioning along with disease-cascades, and conclude:

In any case, there is a compensatory response that keeps serum cholesterol in check.

Apparently not. There are several classifications of cholesterol diseases.

The overwhelming, vast majority of cholesterol disease, a type of dyslipidemia, is characterized by having high levels of HDL and LDL cholesterol in the blood. When someone is described as having high-cholesterol or hypercholesterolemia, they quite literally have hyperlipoproteinemia.

You're linking protein synthesis with hypercholesterolemia. You're saying prions up-regulate cholesterol synthesis to propagate. I'm saying, if prions are USING cholesterol that is being manufactured, total levels shouldn't be greatly affected. (on a side note, it would make more sense, to me at least, to describe the observation as this: High cholesterol promotes Prion propagation, much like high glucose promotes cancer growth; not the other way around.)

But, yes, there are compensatory responses that keep cholesterol levels in check (when we're speaking strictly of cholesterol and NOT lipoproteins.) Associations, such as prion disease and high-cholesterol, do not have an arrow of causation. And, as such, can not conclusively determine cause and effect without further experimentation. To say that Prion disease is causing hypercholesterolemia, or even obesity, based solely on correlation is a logical fallacy, especially when you can't even describe the biochemical processes that drive/promote such correlations.

If you can wrap your head around the idea that a protein's shape determines its function, NOT its chemical make-up, you might begin to appreciate the disease processes.

Fine. So how do misfolded proteins affect the biochemical pathways that drive fat deposition and obesity?

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by soficrow

 

That's actually an interesting link. It's an interesting thread too, but I really do believe that much of the ills of the world are caused by obesity, and that th majority of obese people are fat because they eat too much. NOt all, but most.

Saying fat people are fat because they eat too much is like saying an alcoholic is an alcoholic because he/she drinks too much. NO SH!T!!! That type of tautological reasoning forms the basis for why obesity treatment fails time and time again (and if you don't believe me, go do a little digging on the efficacy of intentional caloric restriction on obese patients and you'll see just how ineffective "eating less" really is).

Researchers have tried to tackle obesity as a psychological problem (no self control, eating too much, too lazy, gluttony and sloth), but they forget that physiological processes heavily influence the psyche. In other words, you're metabolic state will drive what you eat and how much you eat. Period.

There's a paradox that quite accurately describes what I'm speaking of.

A Nutrition Paradox — Underweight and Obesity in Developing Countries

How do you explain obese, over-fed mothers of under-fed, semi-starved children? It's not a simple "eat less" solution, my friend. Mothers don't purposefully starve their children while they eat themselves into obesity. That goes against the very nature of motherhood...and evolution itself. The only way to describe it is to say PHYSIOLOGICAL processes are driving obesity, not PSYCHOLOGICAL.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by Celestica

 

These disease agents are in the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat AND in the medications available to relieve disease symptoms.

I do not know where you live, or what kind of resources you have at your personal disposal, but I do know that the vast majority of this world's people are not in a position to "choose" whether or not to breathe air, drink water and eat food.

...Whatever you may think you're doing, you're just allowing corporate-industry to program your understanding and your thoughts. The "blame the victims" strategy is all about evading corporate liability - you're not just buying into it, you're helping to promote the bs.

edit on 29/11/11 by soficrow because: wds

I never once said "blame the victims" what I did say was we cannot put all 100% of the blame on the government, and we cannot put all 100% on the people. It takes two to tango. I live in the United States, and in the United States we do have moderately unsafe water and air. But you combat these things with a healthy diet. You combat these things with organic foods, and detoxing agents. One of the beautiful things about America is that it's citizens control the market. THEY make what YOU buy. If I stop buying something, how can they sell it?

I do take slight offense when you say I am allowing my mind to be programmed. I could easily say that your mind has been programmed by paranoid conspiracy theorists.

I am not buying into anything. All I said was my own personal opinion. I am not promoting anything, especially not the "trust the government with your life" life style.

Edit to add: Did you miss when I said
Basically - if it comes from a monopoly corporation or from the government it's probably very, very, bad for you.

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by Domo1

 

So how come I'm not as fat as my neighbor? She's huge and I'm pretty sure we drink the same water and breathe the same air.

And I'm pretty sure all your exposures are NOT the same - timing counts a lot too, especially for fetus exposure and children's exposures. ....I used to eat non-stop, and never gained an ounce - drove all my friends crazy. Just means different bodies have different ways of processing the same stuff.

But obesity IS a common symptom of now-pandemic diseases - not an absolutely guaranteed to happen symptom, but common nonetheless. Pandemic too.

Even if exposure was not the exact same amount, if it occurs in almost everything like you seem to believe, than almost everyone would be dead already. If its in all the air, water, and food we encounter on a daily basis, the world obesity rate would be well over 80%.

The Foxo gene is a very good factor that determines your overall health in life. You get one from your mom, and one from your dad. The most common combination is CC, which is a fairly okay bill of health. The less common one is CG, which means a slight better bill of health. The most uncommon is GG, which means you will probably live to 100 and never get sick. GG occurs in less than ~10% of the worlds population.

That means that about 90% of people have an average immune system. If these toxins were as rampant and so unavoidable as you say we would ALL be sick.

reply to post by Celestica


Sorry - I was a bit rude to you, and you didn't deserve it at all. Mea culpa.

Even if exposure was not the exact same amount, if it occurs in almost everything like you seem to believe, than almost everyone would be dead already.

Hang on, it's coming. NCDs, or chronic disease, will kill over 37 million people in 2011 - more than all other causes combined. Up from 36 million in 2008, the death toll is still climbing; 44 million NCD-caused deaths are expected in 2020, 52 million by 2030. NCDs are incurable, progressing systematically from degeneration to disability, and slowly to death. Obesity is one symptom of Pandemic NCDs.

….NCDs are the leading causes of death globally, killing more people each year than all other causes combined. …. Of the 57 million deaths that occurred globally in 2008, 36 million – almost two thirds – were due to NCDs, comprising mainly cardiovascular diseases, cancers, diabetes and chronic lung diseases.
………….
NCDs have become a universal threat. ….in 2011 ...Roughly a third will be younger than 60. Even larger numbers of people are living disabled by these illnesses.
…………
NCD deaths are projected to increase by 15% globally between 2010 and 2020 (to 44 million deaths).

If its in all the air, water, and food we encounter on a daily basis, the world obesity rate would be well over 80%.

You're right, obesity rates are not yet at 80% - they're projected to be 75% in the USA by 2015. And obesity is just one symptom - some people say more than half the world's population already has NCDs caused by exposure to various industrial toxins and contaminants, often without obesity as a visible symptom.

The global incidence and prevalence of obesity increase with every passing year, affecting both developed and developing countries. An appalling estimate of 75% of adults are projected to be overweight or obese in the United States by 2015 ....

Obesity is nowadays being accepted as a state of chronic low-grade inflammation (Xu et al., 2003; Weisberg et al., 2006). This inflammatory state impacts the function of many organs and tissues, from the adipose tissue itself to the endothelium, the central nervous system, the pancreas or the liver, …….long lasting systemic alterations induced by obesity-related inflammation, some of which could be transmitted to subsequent generations…..

Childhood and adult obesity has emerged as a growing problem not only in the United States but also in many countries around the world.

The Foxo gene is a very good factor that determines your overall health in life. You get one from your mom, and one from your dad. ...
...about 90% of people have an average immune system. If these toxins were as rampant and so unavoidable as you say we would ALL be sick.

Most people ARE sick - and getting sicker - and their genes can't protect them. These kinds of diseases override DNA, without changing it, to determine a gene's "expression" - it's called "epigenetics."

There are many uncertainties about (obesity and) metabolic syndrome but one thing is certain - it cannot be explained entirely by genetics or lifestyle factors.
…………………….
Individuality and epigenetics in obesity.

Excessive weight gain arises from the interactions among environmental factors, genetic predisposition and the individual behavior. However, it is becoming evident that interindividual differences in obesity susceptibility depend also on epigenetic factors. Epigenetics studies the heritable changes in gene expression that do not involve changes to the underlying DNA sequence. These processes include DNA methylation, covalent histone modifications, chromatin folding and, more recently described, the regulatory action of miRNAs and polycomb group complexes.

genes alone do not determine body characteristics. The environment may also affect these traits by altering gene behaviour.