What drives a woman to do this?

I love seeing everyone claim they would "defend themselves" in an instant, blah blah blah, when the fact is when faced with a gun, most people will just wet their pants, maybe hold their hands up to try to ward off the bullets.

Even more, claiming you would just up and KILL your own mother? Are you kidding me? Just think about it.

If my mother whipped out a gun and started shooting my brothers and me at Christmas dinner or something, it would just be so insane, I would not even be able to get my mind around the fact that my OWN MOTHER was pointing a gun at me. Much less actually react at all, it would be so far out of left field. I might get out, "WTF are you doing?" before I got lead poisoning.

reply to post by CaptChaos

maybe hold their hands up to try to ward off the bullets.

That sounds ridiculous, but it actually saved a classmate of mine. He was a 16 year old arrogant punk, and he cut off a biker in traffic. He got caught at a red light, biker pulls up beside him, pulls out a pistol, aims it at his face and pulls the trigger. My classmate put his hand up instinctually and the bullet ricocheted off the bones in his hand, tore all the way down his arm and exited out his elbow. The guy was aiming straight at his face, but he only had an arm injury. Pure dumb luck. They never found the biker, and the kid from my school had a couple of surgeries and a sling for a few months, but he fully recovered.

You never know. Follow your instincts.

For those that say stupid stories like this are cause for gun control. If that same biker walked over and shoved a bowie knife in his throat, he wouldn't have survived! When people want to kill, they kill. the weapon is unimportant, they will find a way. Cars kill thousands of times more people than guns, we can't ban those. Prescription drug abuse in Florida kills 7 people per day, guns usually don't even kill one. Should we ban prescription drugs too?

Killer = Leader.

Shock and trust are powerful weapons.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I do not understand why you think it is worse if a woman does this...

I'm not sure where you got the idea I was suggesting it was worse simply because she was female? The killing of her children as their mother certainly adds an aspect to this and the horror of it all. However, worse? I certainly wouldn't say I'd feel any better about this story if the father had been the one to start shooting everyone in reach.

No, her gender doesn't make it worse per say, just a bit harder to understand given the very real mother/child bond issues that men really can't entirely share. I am male so it's not a slight against guys, just an interesting aspect to a sad story.

Not every mother/child bond is a good bond. Nor does every Mother actually have a bond with her children.

The Mother/Child bond should probably be redone as the Child/Mother bond, as the one from Child to Mother is more certain and unlikely to be pathological even if it can develop into a pathological state.

reply to post by Aeons

Good point with that and I sure can't fault the logic. Perhaps it does make more sense to think of it the other direction as Child -> Mother first. I just can't help but wonder why we're seeing more of these happen. So senseless and so far beyond any standards or norms for the sheer brutality of it all.

Just one of many, multiple, and various stories that have come about in modern history that show what the female gender is capable of. Yet, let us not forget that it is, of course, women who are the caring, nurturing, innocent, angelic gender of the two--at least according to the multitudes who refuse to open their eyes.

Women are capable of violence. When they commit it, they have no more excuses than a man.

The crime isn't less significant or more forgivable by a woman's hand.

You don't need to attack me as a woman. I am loving and caring. I am also responsible for my actions.

Good enough?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Aeons

 

Good point with that and I sure can't fault the logic. Perhaps it does make more sense to think of it the other direction as Child -> Mother first. I just can't help but wonder why we're seeing more of these happen. So senseless and so far beyond any standards or norms for the sheer brutality of it all.

You are seeing more of them happen, because there is more media attention.

People probably didn't recognize family annihilators in the past. People would find bodies and assume that the woman could not have done it. That sort of thing.

Statistics are pretty clear the violence is going down. Though I would not jump up in joy about that yet, because I suspect that some of that trend has to do with the upside down population pyramid in the countries claiming it.

You would be surprised how, "Crazy" a woman can be when she does not have enough sex. Every little issue is magnified 100X and she will go off like a hair trigger. I see it everyday, working security in a shopping centre everyday. No woman will ever admit it though...

I'm sorry - are you saying that this woman might have annihilated her family because she wasn't getting it?

Mr. X or Mrs. Y wasn't getting laid often enough, so they were just on a hair trigger and had to shoot their family to death.

Or is this Masturbation....it saves lives.

All the rest of what I have to say surely violates the terms of service.

"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Shakespeare
.The Bard's words...plus she must have been mental.

It is a well understood phenomena, most parents that kill their children and then commit suicide do that out of a twisted feeling of love, they can not bare to die without "taking them along", this and the fear of not knowing what will happen to the children. This has been studied by psychology in parents that survive the suicide attempt.

Altruistic filicide is murder committed out of love to relieve the real or imagined suffering of the child.

from Filicide-Suicide: Common Factors in Parents Who Kill Their Children and Themselves

Maternal infanticide studies in the general population (20,38,44,45) found a predominance of unemployed mothers in their early 20s.

from Child murder by mothers: patterns and prevention

Ultimately the principal reason for most crimes, suicide, murder and most psychiatric disorders is simply this artificial construct we call society. This is aggravated by the fact that man has altered the factors of his own natural selection, without a goal beyond social survivability.

It is also of note that the rate of suicide in American Indians and other more "natural societies" increase and continue to be above the normal after acculturation starts with "normal society". Note also that in some of those "natural societies" mothers did kill their offspring upon birth (for a multitude of reasons).

As o thought exercise I give the fallowing. We all know the concept of the starving artist and how most artists only get recognition after death, I propose that if things remain the same and we go taught an obligatory decline in demographics, creative traits will start to decline in the general population.

I also believe that some other "nasty" mental characteristics liked to genetic makeup like a predisposition to psychopathy, violent crime and rape did served some purposes on humanity's violent past. Note that genetic predisposition can be countered by environment factors (like upbringing).

reply to post by Panic2k11


Does it not occur to people that these people aren't being 100% honest?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Guilford County... makes me think of Gifford. I wonder if there isn't some type of psychic warfare going on here.

reply to post by Aeons


Statistical studies in general have a consideration to that factor. In any case since they have committed a crime and are probably already convicted from it, providing any rational would not benefit them in any way since they will not be directly named, even if we would consider that it was a tactic to get some sympathy from the person doing the interview it would at best be a weak argument.

What it seems to indicate, is that those persons, as most of us, have no trust in society in general, and in particular to raise their children. There are many other motivations that would categorize it as an act of love, when I hear this type of news I always remember the case of Japanese women caring children, some babies, jumping from cliffs to escape the USA marines during world war 2, in fear of what would happen in case of capture.

With the impending victory of American troops, civilians often committed mass suicide, urged on by the Japanese soldiers who told locals that victorious American soldiers would go on a rampage of killing and raping. Ryukyu Shimpo, one of the two major Okinawan newspapers, wrote in 2007: "There are many Okinawans who have testified that the Japanese Army directed them to commit suicide. There are also people who have testified that they were handed grenades by Japanese soldiers" to blow themselves up. Some of the civilians, having been induced by Japanese propaganda to believe that U.S. soldiers were barbarians who committed horrible atrocities, killed their families and themselves to avoid capture. Some of them threw themselves and their family members from the cliffs where the Peace Museum now resides.

...

Marine Corps officials in Okinawa and Washington have stated that they "knew of no rapes by American servicemen in Okinawa at the end of the war, and their records do not list war crimes committed by Marines in Okinawa". Historian George Feifer, however, writes that rape in Okinawa was "another dirty secret of the campaign" in which "American military chronicles ignore [the] crimes." Few Okinawans revealed their pregnancies, as "stress and bad diet ... rendered most Okinawan women infertile. Many who did become pregnant managed to abort before their husbands and fathers returned. A smaller number of newborn infants fathered by Americans were suffocated."

From Battle of Okinawa @ Wikipedia

Emperor Hirohito personally found the threat of defection of Japanese civilians disturbing.[unreliable source?] Much of the community was of low caste, and there was a risk that live civilians would be surprised by generous U.S. treatment. Native Japanese sympathizers would hand the Americans a powerful propaganda weapon to subvert the "fighting spirit" of Japan in radio broadcasts. At the end of June, Hirohito sent out an imperial order encouraging the civilians of Saipan to commit suicide.[unreliable source?] The order authorized the commander of Saipan to promise civilians who died there an equal spiritual status in the afterlife with those of soldiers perishing in combat. General Hideki Tōjō intercepted the order on 30 June 1944 and delayed its sending, but it went out anyway the next day. By the time the Marines advanced on the north tip of the island, from 8–12 July 1944, most of the damage had been done.[unreliable source?] Over 20,000 Japanese civilians committed suicide in the last days of the battle to take the offered privileged place in the afterlife, some jumping from "Suicide Cliff" and "Banzai Cliff". In all, about 22,000 Japanese civilians died.

From Battle of Saipan @ Wikipedia (special note about possible unreliable source behind the motivation)

Graphical, but not as much as the ones I had seen before.

An interesting study would be if for instance the same applies to pets. For instance Hitler also killed his two dogs. In contrast we have the recent news of the suicidal owner that released 49 animals. A search on Google did not turn anything on this aspect that I think would generate similar motivations.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


There is something very wrong with society. Even this thread. You have one flag and this is about a person killing her own children and yet, there is another thread that has heaps of flags and replies and that thread is talking about racism on a tram.

Do you see what is really happening?

The real issues are left to fall by the wayside, whilst issues that focus on civil freedoms or the economy are huge topics that people focus on...but murders and cruelty are sidestepped?!

Something really wrong is going on with society and people don't see it. It is like a colorful bandaid that people talk about but they never actually take off the bandaid to see what is causing the need to wear one.

In nature, other species will kill their offspring if they feel that it is necessary, due to food or survival issues, instinct or intuition. There seems to be an increase in this unconscious undercurrent where our own species is erradicating it's offspring.

very alarming indeed.

reply to post by Thurisaz


I did not flag the thread because I objected to the OP presentation and the initial replies. That is also what motivated me to contribute to the thread in an attempt to demonstrate that life is not black and white.

In regards to:

There seems to be an increase in this unconscious undercurrent where our own species is erradicating it's offspring.

That does not exactly match reality of infanticide today, more people more events. What we can observe is that the value of human life in general is decreasing, especially old people, this is also cultural Asia and Africa always had a lower standard (but respect their elders more). All this is probably due to demographics pressures and the unsocial globalization, linked to the need of demographics control and the increased availability of contraceptive technology, the erosion of the concept of the atomic family and in this days of uncertainty most people chose to not procreate especially in the West (to me rightly so, if conditions for the offspring will be worst), we can also blame the new pressures society created after the industrial revolution and women emancipation (not bad in itself, but eroded family structure and children care).

One thing I find most disturbing in all this is the replacement by women of children with pets, and how they treat them as humans that and children in beauty contests causes me the same level of revulsion, not on the top of the list but up there...

reply to post by Panic2k11


you do not have to explain your choices to me.

I am maternal...I am female and I am a Mother to two wonderful Children. And I am so materal, I would raise children with love that are not even biologically mine. That is just the way I am but this thread confuses me. I cannot fathom why a Mother would kill.

I don't understand how a Woman could do this... nature is cruel but instinct is part of it and nature helps us to understand cruelty and yet, human beings are supposed to be set apart from the beasts of the field...we are supposed to be better than this.

I am starting to believe that we are not that.

reply to post by Panic2k11

One thing I find most disturbing in all this is the replacement by women of children with pets, and how they treat them as humans...

Women are nurturers by nature... be it children... or be it pets. As for myself... I'd rather snuggle up to a cat or dog... then a cold-blooded reptile. Hope this adds some perspective.