Does the entire job system need an overhaul?

This is something I've been considering lately. I mean, let's face it, most people work not because they want to but because they need to in order to survive. If you don't work, you don't have any money and struggle to survive on basic welfare programs. Cut those and a person would be begging for food in order to survive. In a normal economy, everything is golden and things are going well. But in a tough economy, issues arise. Right now, you have 3-4 people chasing 1 job. It's not fair when everyone truly needs a job. And even when a person does have a job, 9 times out of 10, they're just a warm body in an office, a pawn on a chess board. They could easily be fired if the company they're working for isn't making enough money. That's another thing. Our entire system is based on greed and making the most money possible at whatever cost. Not only is it greedy, but it's inherently selfish and unfair.

The current economy truly is a pyramid scheme. The idea is to work hard and you will reach the top with lots of money, hot babes, and fast cars. But here's the issue. The top cannot support very many people, there will always have to be people on the bottom. Let's think about it logically. If 10% of Americans were suddenly millionaires, price inflation would pick up because there's more money chasing the same amount of goods. It would further decimate the middle and lower classes while the upper class has a lower quality of life than in the past. A lose-lose situation for everyone involved.

I have no idea what to replace the current system with, I only know that the current system is unsustainable. Perhaps a Zeitgeist resourced based economy would be implemented, where basic goods are free and people volunteer to keep up the system. But that would require a lot of giving by many people and with the current selfishness in the world, I'm not optimistic.

reply to post by mossme89


Since with the current job system anyone working min wage jobs must work about 80 hours a week to survive, I'd say the system is a sham to provide all the mindless labor we need around the country. Raise the wage....and someone might drop one of their three jobs. Then we would have a labor shortage and they would need to raise the wages even more to attract workers, which is how it should be to begin with.

The "system" itself is being overridden for the purpose of better commerce. People need jobs so badly they're willing to put up with failing corporations and companies just to have one.

The system is built insanely and is doomed to failure.

Management material these days is synonymous with having distinct sociopath tendencies in many companies.

The hardest and best workers are passed over again and again, while the higher end of the mediocrity scale is where most promotions come from.

Above all, the producers are given crumbs while the folks who do very little take home payments of 50 to 100 times what the actual workers make.

Yes, the job system does need an overhaul because due to its flaws it can not be merely repaired. The entire job system in a capitalist society derives from wage slavery, this is the basic glue of the capitalist system. The american dream of everyone going to work etc is a fallacy, its as utopian in my eyes as communism is in the eyes of many others.

A Zeitgeist style system could work due to our knowledge of environment and the way it affects our "human nature." The monetary system plays on peoples greed due to the belief in the paradigm of consumption. If you take that away however, the equally as powerful (or even more so) personality trait of man will come through. Compassion over greed is a possibility.

Yes, the job system needs a reset with a minimum and a maximum wage!!!!

A min 20,000 and max 1,000,000 is just not on! Its criminal.

For me the Max should be 10x the min!!!!

The min should be sufficient to enable workers to pay ther bills, rent, mortgage and still have some change for incidentals!!

And the rest scaled within!!!

Tax should be simplified!!!

I'd agree our system needs reform although like the OP, I am hard pressed to come up with a single viable solution as to what can replace it. Occupy and others want Marxist Socialism. Hard core Republicans want purer and less regulated Capitalism. It seems to me, BOTH systems have been proven total and unqualified failures in numerous examples around the world in the 20th Century. Since even the most optimistic ought to agree those systems are mutually exclusive to each other, we can't even hope for a compromise. It just isn't workable.

The problem here, in my view, is that capitalism just ran amok. Profit wasn't good enough anymore...It has to be MORE profit than last quarter, every quarter, or a company is seen as a failure and on it's way down. By definition that means higher prices and fewer employment opportunities as that logic plays out year after year... So how to fix it??

Hopefully wiser heads than ours here will come up with a solution. Just dont' ask the idiots in Washington. They CREATED this nightmare. Every last 'R' and 'D' among them. They're the last people who should be allowed to even sit in on discussions let alone craft "solutions".

reply to post by mossme89


I think you have some good points, but you should know eventually most of us will be unemployed due to increasing automation. Why pay someone minimum wage to flip a burger when I can get a robot?

reply to post by Evolutionsend


It sucks. I'm 18 and just filled out some job applications to try and get a job of winter break (in college, it's 6 weeks long). It's basically all OBEY OBEY OBEY. You should have seen some of the questions!

Rate these questions from Completely Disagree - Completely Agree.
"I believe authority should always be obeyed and never challenged."
"I see myself as an obedient worker."
"I like following authority."
"My supervisor always knows the best thing to do."
"There is never an excuse to break company policy."
"I believe if I see someone doing something wrong, I should always tell my supervisor."

Of course you put the answers they want to hear otherwise you have no shot at getting hired, but it's pretty ridiculous.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well the biggest issue is that people need jobs to survive and jobs are not available. What about a system where basic amenities like housing & food are provided by the state, so people don't have to worry about that, and wages are tempered. Basically where there would be both a minimum and a maximum wage. The maximum wage would be something like 15X the minimum wage. In a current context, that would be something like $24,000 to $360,000.

I know many people might argue that people would get lazy and just not work, but you'd be surprised how people act when they enjoy something. It's only human to try and progress at life, people would work more to help society than make money, since they don't need it.

It would sort of be like if communism and capitalism got married and had a baby.

I think a constitutional abolishment and re-establishment of the federal government would fix it in the short term. To make sure it didn't happen again would be the real challenge.

Eh I wouldn't say a complete overhaul but definitely some things need to be changed. What we have in it's own way is slightly okay but definitely needs room for improvement. First off would be cost of living I suppose, since I don't live on my own I can't fully speak for it but my co-workers who do are having a bit of a hard time.

no, we need confidence, and that is why it has been so frustrating, it's an elusive commodity

confidence leads to spending and lending, which leads to jobs

I think you may have some false premises. There is no jobs system. Except for those born into vast wealth and indulgent parents, most people have to find their own way. At any time in life, most people can choose to learn skills that will assist them in acheiving- whatever that word means to them. Almost everyone starts from the bottom, or lowest levels. Few people stay in the same job or same field for very long- they are gaining skills and experience and moving on to new opportunities. Many make sacrifices, like wear out of fashion cheap clothing, don't get cable, use the internet at the library- and save the money to afford more training, or a house or a car. Only when they are much older do they begin to enjoy the fruits of their labors and begin conspicuous consumption. These are the same people who keep charities funded. Many people don't work solely to support themselves or out of greed- they enjoy what they do and many professions allow them to help others. They select their dream careers and advance toward them slowly. It is hard to stay focused. It sucks to not have everything you may want when you want it, but it is possible to earn it. Life is totally unfair in tons of ways, but I don't think it's unfair to expect people to work in some fashion to support themselves. There are many commune type communities all over the globe, they will also expect members of their communities to work, sometimes much harder than other jobs. Instead of demonizing something outside of yourself, focus your attention on your own efforts and actions. You can reform society most effectively by reforming yourself.

We might be looking at less hours worked by employees, especially the one's that work a lot of OT, which nowadays is mostly manager positions. Even regular full time employees might get cut to 32 or 30 hours a week. As for pay, there's going to have to be a cap. It's ridiculous how much the highest paid employees get including benefit and perks.

I'm not a socialist or anything, but it's becoming apparent to me that the system needs to change in that direction a bit because of the reality our system is in now. I wouldn't have agreed with it a decade ago. The distinction needs to be made between people that are socialist and people that think we need a system more like socialism. Point is, the current system is failing the people. If it can be changed, it can always be changed back when the opportunity presents itself.

The workers also need to be taxed less, and they could be if our military forces weren't all over the global, but that's another topic.

Originally posted by mossme89
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Well the biggest issue is that people need jobs to survive and jobs are not available. What about a system where basic amenities like housing & food are provided by the state, so people don't have to worry about that, and wages are tempered. Basically where there would be both a minimum and a maximum wage. The maximum wage would be something like 15X the minimum wage. In a current context, that would be something like $24,000 to $360,000.

I'm not sure where the capitalism part enters into that as you are describing a socialist approach. I really don't know what the answers are. I know I absolutely do NOT want any serious form of socialist government in the United States. I'm not going by movies and 3rd party stories handed down. My memories are vague, but they are 1st hand for what the latter half of the 80's was like to live through and communism just sucks. There is no better way to put it.

On the other hand... Well heck... Capitalism has run so far beyond the bounds of common sense and decency on any level that it's pretty well failed us at this point too. Then again, it might be fair to argue that with the mountain of centralized planning, regulation and control, we haven't seen capitalism given a fair chance in a decade or two at the very least.

Maybe we really do just need a total collapse of the system to start all over again. We'll all discover it together, I imagine.

What about making the work week 20 hours instead of 40 hours and actually enforce this. I thought all this technology and advancement in our culture is suppose to make our lives easier, not work harder. Who came up with the 40 hour work week anyway? The best days of your life are sitting at work with people you don't know. Wouldn't you rather be spending time with friends and family?

I get up at 7...run around and prepare my kids for school...I am out the door at 8:30 just to make some guy at the top wealthy. Then I come home at night at 6:00 when it is dark, to just take my kids to bed at 8. The nicest part of the day I sent in a cubicle....I leave in the morning while it is dark just to come home in the dark. What a great life. Is this what life is suppose to be all about? Work? I know my coworkers better than my own family. There is something seriously screwed up about that.

another idea would be to have a set price wage so whatever your making now for 40 hours would stay the same but you would only have to work 20 hours
that would give the same wage now but you would only have to work 20 hour weeks
then if you were inclined to work over time that would start at 20 hours
so if you wanted to buy a car you could work 2 jobs totaling 40 hours and make 2x as much money as now
people wouldn't need credit you could actually buy things with the money you earn
a company would need 2x the amount of employees so that should take a real bite out of unemployment
people would either have 2x as much money to spend on things or a hell of a lot more time to enjoy life or someone could actually afford to stay at home to take care of the kids
heck i guess unfortunately the gov could tax you twice as much but that sure would help defense spending lol
right now i would think min wage should be about 25 dollars an hour at least with current prices people haven't had a cost of living increase in wages since the early 1970s
i would also suggest housing be provided if necessary an actual house if wanted at age 18 free utility's including water heat gas power internet phone all free for absolutely everyone tax should benefit the people that pay it
and retirement at age 50

Forget overhauling it. It needs to be completely replaced. A totally new system needs to be installed. It is too far gone to repair at this point. The problem it it will be a very long time from now that anyone even tries to do anything meaningful thing about it. Too many people making money on the side for anything to be done at this point. I am afraid it will keep on just as it is until it crashes in on its self then and only then will se have a chance to see any change.

Hey guys... when you work, you are basically selling your time and skill level. The more valuable the skill, the more you are paid for that skill and the time it takes to provide it.

If you can flip burgers, great... but it is not highly specialized, so the skill is not highly valued and is only worth about 7-8.00 an hour.

If you can weld, and do maintainance and diesel engine repair... you have a rare and specialized skill and can make 30.00 + an hour.

Now, if you need 600.00 a week to pay your bills... as a fast food worker, you will have to work 75 hours to pay your bills.

As the diesel repair/welder... you only have to work 20 hours a week to pay your bills.

Is that fair... yes. So, if you want top pay... you need to have a skill in demand.

As for the executives that sit in an office and do half the work of the work floor factory worker... perhaps they have a skill or knowledge or ability to interpret data that translates into profits for the company and share holders. If you invest in a mutual fund or retirement fund or 401K... you are probably a share holder... they are making you money.

The best of these people can make their shareholders and companies lots of money by seeing trends, opportunities in markets, by foreseeing potential problems, or cutting operating costs and squezzing out extra profit. They have a valuable skill and they make a lot of money.

Obviuosly there is abuse, but that cuts both ways... there are execs that use the company, abuse funds, and do unethical business transactions. Likewise, there are workers that ride the clock, use the sick days like get out of jail free cards, they take 30 minute "15 minute" breaks, 45 minute "30 minute" lunches, and leave early or arrive late... and somehow forgot to punch in... of course the punch correction is based on the schedule as they were there on time.... yeah right.

If everybody could be a doctor, they would... but most people can't. If everybody could flip burgers... they would... and they do... that's why the skilled person makes more than the unskilled.

reply to post by dean007



You would work 20 hours, but get paid for 40 hours... and so have twice as much money.... No you wouldn't.

The cost of production just doubled under your idea.... if you made one tractor in 20 hours worked... so in 40 hours you would have made 2 tractors. With your idea, you only made the one tractor in 20 hours but got paid for making 2... so the costs of making the one tractor just doubled.

The costs of all items would likewise be doubled... so the increase in pay has been negated by inflation or production costs which are passed on to the consumer.