Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
You ever wonder what if?

-Warning highly speculative-

China and Pakistan together covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west, and on US and coalition forces in the wars that followed. and even in providing safe-haven for key leaders and figures in both groups, all while Pakistan played the role of an ally in the war on terrorism.

Everyone knows there was many things wrong with 9/11.... Well, what if?

Nah, it's too far fetched, to far out there to even go further on ATS with it.

Lets not go there, and just say we did, once upon a time.

China covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west? What a complete load of rubbish! I guess the next thing people will be saying is china is Al Qaeda lol You people should start thinking for yourselves and realise that your governments are playing you, playing all of us.

edit on 26-11-2011 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)

Well i don't know, quite abit adds up here, don't you think?

Iran fund & aid the Taliban (arms) and also trains & fund Hezbullah to attack Israel,

Pakistan aids & funds the Taliban

Russia is close allies with Iran

China is close allies with all the above including north korea



Now we have our conspiracy to fight your conspiracy's/propaganda

Yeah, so China are giving money to the same terrorists that have caused a few problems in China, including killings and bombings. Yeah, you have great logic there. Why don't the uk fund the IRA lol

Originally posted by Jay-morris
No, people , leader, whatever killed them people, not commusism. Thats what people just can't see. They have been brainwashed at such a young age that they just go with the flow and say communism is evil. All governments are capable of terrible things, and thats because of the people running or in charge of these governments.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Well, this site is also here for peole like me to shut these fear proaganda people up, or at least tell them why they are wrong. Popele just want china to be bad, to be evil. Maybe because it makes them feel better about their own country going down the drain. Governments have a way of brainwashing their people to believe this and that about other countries, and the sad thing is, it works. Just like communism is evil and bad BS. At the end of te day, communism is not bad or evil, people are bad or evil..

I want to get on with the discussion and debate at hand that Slayer has presented but feel the need to address this and your other quips you have provided us Jay:

You do know you are getting pissed off and angry over someone who gave a clear disclaimer that what they were saying was "highly speculative" right? Then for some reason you have since then gone on a crusade to "shut these fear propaganda people up" and "tell them why they are wrong. (though you haven't done the latter and only have worked on shouting down speculation and opposing opinion and thought).

Sadly, you couldn't refute or discuss why they were wrong and possibly fold such discussion into this topic. The geo-political scene is not some clear black n' white chalk board or Risk board game where the lines and armies are clearly defined.

Back room deals, arms pacts, defensive pacts, treaties; we know only the surface and what ever happens to either be pushed out for propaganda purposes or is leaked out (most likely intentionally). There really is no way to know if China was or wasn't involved -- hence the highly speculative disclaimer made before the poster went down the rabbit-hole.

Also, sticking your head in the sand about the known atrocities that take place under Communist rule shows a very naive understanding of the world and history. While you are correct that it was the leaders of those nations that were the ultimate evil, their evil was facilitated by the Iron Fist of Communist rule.

Do you think if the People of North Korea were able to speak freely, the press was able to report what they saw, and the People were able to make their own choices would still live in such destitute and oppressiveness? Kim Jung Ill maybe the leader oppressing but it is only facilitated by the structure of his Government.

----

Okay, I strayed a bit. Now to follow some links and read up on some fun United China-Stan threesome.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Jay-morris
No, people , leader, whatever killed them people, not commusism. Thats what people just can't see. They have been brainwashed at such a young age that they just go with the flow and say communism is evil. All governments are capable of terrible things, and thats because of the people running or in charge of these governments.

Thank you for clarifying your stance on the other points but, this bit here still irritates me to no end...

People are not brainwashed when they hear real life stories of the brutal nature that those PEOPLE/LEADERS under Communism carried out to maintain control of the "Collective" <--known as communism by living survivors. You know there are millions still around.

Real history books of various sources {Unless they are from North Korea or books written in China under Mao} cover the killings of Millions quite openly and fairly. There is the rub IMO. Contrary to internet Pop-Culture Voodoo opinion.

Communism has actually killed more people than capitalism. {Mostly their own}. Neither are perfect I'll agree but where one forces their people to stay behind a walled in territory like what we saw in Eastern Europe/Berlin or North Korea presently etc I'm sorry but I find it hard for anybody to defend the real world examples of where that type of Governance leads.

See, Communism works great on paper as some sort of abstract academic exercise but again in the REAL real world people die and die by the millions usual by their own hands...

edit on 26-11-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Have you been to China? I have actually spoken to people on this site that actually believe that China is like north korea, with not many westerners living there, which is complete BS. To hold china commusim up against communism china 30 years ago is wrong. I know China is not perfect, but compared to 30 years ago, its a damn site better.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Have you been to China? I have actually spoken to people on this site that actually believe that China is like north korea, with not many westerners living there, which is complete BS. To hold china commusim up against communism china 30 years ago is wrong. I know China is not perfect, but compared to 30 years ago, its a damn site better.

Not to get any further OFF topic.

Where did I say ANYWHERE that China is still like that? Or that they are anything like North Korea presently? I clarified my statement by saying "Red China Under Mao" Come on man, I expected a better argument than that from you.

Having said that, I noticed you completely bypassed the truth about how things are under Communism in the real world. China is now Capitalists and North Korea...Well, I'll let you defend them...

edit on 26-11-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)