US/China and Pakistan. No False Flag needed!

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posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 02:30 PM
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Special Report


Hello again..
I wanted to draw your attention to a growing issue that has a potential for drastic consequences for all of us. Let us begin with this latest story out of China. No, it's not the thrust of this thread but it is a sign of whats on the horizon IMO.


China rushes thousands of police to restive Xinjiang

BEIJING: China has rushed thousands of special police forces to Urumqi, capital city of northwestern Xinjiang province, where it is battling to contain separatist East Turkestan militants, some of them trained in neighbouring Pakistan.

Thousands of special policemen have been transferred to Urumqi from the regional public security department, state-run Xinhua news agency reported without specifying the reasons for the deployment.

The fresh deployment would be in addition to stationing of Snow Leopards, China best known anti-terrorism unit in Urmuqi as well as in the border town of Kashghar, located close to the Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (POK).


So while many are focused on OWS/Police Brutality, Black Friday and the ongoing issues with Syria and or the Missile defense question in Europe China has been continuing to deal with separatists in the Province of Xinjiang {AKA East Turkestan}

For those of you who are less than familiar with the Province in question...

Xinjiang is a large, sparsely populated area, spanning over 1.6 million km2 (comparable in size to Iran or Western Europe), which takes up about one sixth of the country's territory. Xinjiang borders the Tibet Autonomous Region and India's Leh District to the south and Qinghai and Gansu provinces to the southeast, Mongolia to the east, Russia to the north, and Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India to the west.


The issue of the separatists has flared up once again and once again China responds with force. Neither side seems to be in any big hurry to negotiate to resolve their issues peacefully. The indigenous largely Muslim Uyghurs people and the relatively recent influx of mostly Han Chinese seem to be a growing and continuing issue the Chinese Government finds itself continuously struggling to resolve.

Hundreds of deaths have been the result. China and many other observers have noted an increase of support by certain groups in Pakistan. The Pakistani Government which China has provided support to has yet to crack down on said forces. {This reminds me of the game Pakistan has played with the US/NATO forces in Afghanistan regarding the same type of issues}

One would think that China would have learned from the lessons the West have. Pakistan is a real cesspool for these types of groups and no matter how much Financial Aid or Military assistance they are provided with Pakistan will not move against these elements within their borders. Even though they the Pakistani Government have been and continue to be the target of these groups as well.

I'm somewhat caught between the mostly Islamic indigenous people of East Turkestans stance and China's right to deal with their own internal matters without outside interference. The controversy of the province should be left between the two parties involved however and this should be of evertone reading this concerns. The elements within Pakistan and {possible ISI influence} raises a massive Red Flag not only for China but the US/NATO not to mention also India.

Now, Pakistan is basically split between two opposing worlds really. There are those in Pakistan {Mostly modern urban city/town dwellers} who would like to have closer ties with the West and outside world vs those who are {Mostly rural dwellers} the majority of whom are of a stricter Islamic belief.

As we here in the West focus on our issues another powder keg is being ignored. I don't blame people for being confused on the issues. We here in the West get conflicting information all the time. I can only imagine how it is over in China..



Pakistan needs Afghan 'counter-measures': Musharraf

WASHINGTON — Pakistan's former leader Pervez Musharraf warned Wednesday that his country's spies will need to take "counter-measures" in Afghanistan if US troops leave it unstable or it becomes too close to India.

On a visit to Washington, Musharraf described relations between the United States and Pakistan as "terrible" but defended the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency that American officials have accused of supporting extremists.

Musharraf, who has lived in exile since stepping down in 2008 but hopes to launch a political comeback next year, insisted that his country's historic rival India was working to turn Afghanistan against Pakistan.

"Since our independence, Afghanistan always has been anti-Pakistan because the Soviet Union and India have very good relations in Afghanistan," Musharraf said at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.


I dunno. I trust this guy about as far as I can toss him. The ISI has had their hand in Afghanistan going back years if not decades. So seriously, who is this guy trying to fool? I wonder what rock he crawled under back in 2008.

He's like a bad penny if you asked me. In a related but conflicting story on the subject...

Taliban commanders say Pakistan intelligence helps them

(Reuters) - Pakistan's security service provides weapons and training to Taliban insurgents fighting U.S. and British troops in Afghanistan, despite official denials, Taliban commanders say, in allegations that could worsen tensions between Pakistan and the United States.

A number of middle-ranking Taliban commanders revealed the extent of Pakistani support in interviews for a BBC Two documentary series, "Secret Pakistan," the first part of which was being broadcast on Wednesday.


Meanwhile the US/NATO and China have a common issue and the same potential enemy. Yet, the Chinese want to play the popularity game on the International stage. This stance doesn't help them nor the West. Here are a few related ATS threads posted on the subject so as to hopefully understand how this situation has been expanding .

Blasts in China's Xinjiang region

Blasts in China's Xinjiang region
Several explosions have hit the north-western Chinese province of Xinjiang, state media has reported. It said there was sporadic gunfire after the blasts, but there were no immediate reports of casualties. Earlier this week, 16 Chinese policemen were killed in an attack on a border post in the province, Xinhua reported.


China says Xinjiang attack linked to Pakistan

old.news.yahoo.com...
BEIJING (AFP) – A deadly weekend attack in China's restive Xinjiang region was masterminded by "terrorists" trained in Pakistan, the local government said Monday....

Fourteen people were killed in two attacks at the weekend in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar, and five alleged attackers were in turn shot dead by police in the wave of violence.


Protest In China - China blames "terrorists" for attack in Xinjiang

BEIJING (Reuters) - A clash at a police station that left at least four people dead in western China's restive Xinjiang region was "a terrorist attack," a government official said on Tuesday, but an exile Uighur group accused police of firing on peaceful protesters....

Police in the desert city of Hotan "gunned down" several rioters who attacked a police station, Xinhua said on Tuesday, the worst violence Xinjiang has experienced in about a year....

But a Germany-based exile group, World Uyghur Congress, disputed the official account. It said 20 Uighurs were killed -- 14 were beaten to death and 6 shot dead -- and 70 arrested when police opened fire on a peaceful protest, leading to fighting between the two sides....

Beijing, wary of instability and the threat to the Communist Party's grip on power, often blames what it calls violent separatist groups in Xinjiang for attacks on police or other government targets, saying they work with al Qaeda or Central Asian militants to bring about an independent state called East Turkestan.


The only real reason China has come out on their side is basically because the Pakistani Government parrots what China wants to hear. Meanwhile that's the same game Pakistan has played with the West. They just Parrot what sounds good in the hopes of gaining more financial aid and military support. So China isnt being all that smart here IMO. They are falling into the same trap everybody else has. Then on top of all this Pakistan is a Nuclear armed nation. This has been glossed over by many who support Pakistan's covert support for Islamic extremists both in Afghanistan and now in Xinjiang.

China Ultimatum to US? 'Any Attack on Pakistan is Attack on China'

Source
China has "warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China", The News daily quoted diplomatic sources as saying.

The warning was formally conveyed by the Chinese foreign minister at last week's China-US strategic dialogue and economic talks in Washington, it said.

For his part, Gilani reiterated Pakistan's support for its policy of 'One China' and said his country fully supports China on the issues of Taiwan and Tibet.

During her briefing today Jiang skirted questions about Pakistan-China signing new defence agreements. Asked about assertions by Pakistan's Ambassador to China Masood Khan before Gilani's arrival that new defence deals would be signed, she said the two sides signed agreements in economy, technology, finance and energy resources.

"As to specific cooperation, please refer to relevant companies," she said, adding that China is actively implementing pledges to help pro-disaster reconstruction and exerting utmost to help tide over difficulties."



The Nuclear issue...

So while many here at ATS talk about a potential "False Flag" incident in Pakistan so the US/West will have an excuse to take action. They reality of the situation is much, much more alarming...

Elite US troops ready to combat Pakistani nuclear hijacks

The US army is training a crack unit to seal off and snatch back Pakistani nuclear weapons in the event that militants, possibly from inside the country’s security apparatus, get their hands on a nuclear device or materials that could make one.

The specialised unit would be charged with recovering the nuclear materials and securing them.


So if any Extremist groups were able to gain control over some of Pakistan's Nuclear stockpile it would not just be a threat the US/West but potentially also China. There is common ground here which both sides need to set aside their differences and deal with Pakistan's lack of willingness to go after those who are fermenting the problems within their borders and get on the ball which would also help with the ongoing conflict in Afghanistan

The US/West and China have common ground here....

Your thoughts?
edit on 25-11-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 02:43 PM
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It is fact that china and pakistan are holding millitary drills as we speak!
I have also read in recent days that not only is china having an economic crisis happening, it is thought the country will split in two groups. They are having massive uprisings and protesting there as well.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 25-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: add link



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 02:52 PM
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Seems to me if there was going to be a "false flag" against Pakistan already would have happened when we went after Bin Laden.

No action will be taken agianst China because we buy and borrow their junk for some reason people love being "The boy who cried wolf" that's not to say something is going to happened within the next 10 to 20 years US and China will be at war or have a "limited" conflict.

The best scenario would be a new "Cold War" with China but that will never happen as long as our economies are tied together.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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Ah yes another fly in the ointment. China never used to be so foolish as to overlook a mutual problem that could be solved by getting someone else to do their dirty work. I like how Pakistan takes our money then gives support for our enemies.

I agree that this has the potential to become rather ugly. Let's hope that it doesn't too many folks with nucs over there.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


can the U.S. bomb 12 countries at once? Im thinking if the OWS protesters need jobs, Uncle Sam is gonna start hiring!



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 03:06 PM
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I don't think China likes Islam any better than the West. What China does in the Middle East is mainly posturing.

The next big conflict between China and the U.S. is the oil reserves found in the South China sea, that is a lot closer to the Philippines than China, and also claimed by Vietnam as well. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. I think people in the U.S. are not going to be all that willing to continue to provide military support for the oil barons.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


S&F Slayer - Informative, well written and sourced - allowing ATS members and readers insight and understanding into (another) potential world powder keg.

This is why I joined ATS - wish I could hoist up more than one flag.

Kudos and thanks.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by TylerDurden2U
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


can the U.S. bomb 12 countries at once? Im thinking if the OWS protesters need jobs, Uncle Sam is gonna start hiring!

No but NATO sure can

second.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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Excellent thread Slayer.


I don't trust Musharraf either. He's a smarmy little bastard that was double dealing the entire time he was in office. The ISI has always supported the Taliban and never stopped, despite Bush's threat, "You either with us or with the terrorists." He paid lip service to the US while pocketing our money and letting the ISI pee on our legs.

The Chinese threat that an attack on Pakistan is an attack on China is fairly worrisome though. Seems like lately the commies - Russian and Chinese both - are growing some balls. They may very well get neutered if they keep it up.
edit on 11/25/2011 by OldCorp because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 03:34 PM
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Pakistan again?Playing the same hand with China as with us.Heck the whole world seems a lit fuse nowadays.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Awesome thread star and flag!

This alliance is often overlooked, and deserves more attention. I was always suspicious of these two countries individually, but this following story kind of made me think:

China Gives Pakistan 50 Fighter Jets


Pakistan — China has agreed to immediately provide 50 JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan, a major outcome of a visit by Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani to Beijing this week, Pakistani officials said Thursday.


This struck me as a timely decision since it was announced right when the recent round of saber rattling between Pakistan and the U.S. was escalating. Your thread definitely helped connect a lot of dots, thanks.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Pakistan is going to give up a nuke or two
to terrorist groups and that is when SHTF..

When a rouge nuclear weapon goes off in
some city either in the USA. or China.

Militant Muslims hate all infidels American ones
chinese ones, all of them.

If we do not start working together
to stop THAT problem it is only going to get bigger..



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:05 PM
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Pakistan and China go together a lot like Russia and Syria.

You really can't step on one without stepping on the other.

Tread carefully!




posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


S&F

The scenarios between China and Pakistan are endless.

But this one is more defined.



ISLAMABAD - While Pakistan wants China to build a naval base at its southwestern seaport of Gwadar in Balochistan province, Beijing is more interested in setting up military bases either in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan or in the Federally Administered Northern Areas (FANA) that border Xinjiang province.




The explosions provoked senior government officials in Xinjiang to publicly claim for the first time in recent years that the attackers had been trained in explosives in ETIM/TIP camps run by Chinese separatists in the Waziristan tribal regions of Pakistan. The Chinese allegation was described by many in the diplomatic circles of Islamabad as a clear sign of the growing impatience of Beijing with Islamabad's failure to control radical groups operating within its borders.


China seeks military bases in Pakistan

edit on 25-11-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:26 PM
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You ever wonder what if?

-Warning highly speculative-

China and Pakistan together covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west, and on US and coalition forces in the wars that followed. and even in providing safe-haven for key leaders and figures in both groups, all while Pakistan played the role of an ally in the war on terrorism.

Everyone knows there was many things wrong with 9/11.... Well, what if?

Nah, it's too far fetched, to far out there to even go further on ATS with it.

Lets not go there, and just say we did, once upon a time.




posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Awesome thead!

My little opinion on the matter?
We don't have anything to offer Pakistan that they couldn't get from China. Plus, China won't lay their brand of "imperialism" on them.
Yet.
Pakistan is/was a reluctant ally at best.
Now?

With Clinton and her brand offoreign policy, and with this trigger-happy administration, the SMART thing to do would be not ruffling feathers.

Play nice and leave ASAP. We're bugging out of Afghanistan early, anyway.



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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things very touchy in that part of china at present..
over the past few years there have been several raids by pakistani's across the border into china that have killed many chinese police and civilians..
The chinese wont play nice as chinese citizens - both han and uigher have been killed by the groups from pakistan that raid inside china... People can say all they want about china but when they start killing chinese citizens they better be willing to pay for that china does protect her people..
Pakistan seems to be trying to play all sides against each other..

Thanks for the info Slayer its not often that word gets out on what goes on in that area due to its remoteness and sparse (compared to other parts of china) population S+F
edit on 25/11/11 by Expat888 because: minor correction..early here not had coffee yet..



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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Its one story to be very close neighbors with Pakistan,but having Chinese bases in Pakistan?

It would be akin to having bases in Mexico. For what need ?


In fact, it was in the aftermath of the May 2 US raid which killed al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden in his Abbottabad hideout that Islamabad started playing its China card aggressively, perhaps to caution Washington against pushing it too hard. Shortly after the Abbottabad raid, Pakistani Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani traveled to Beijing


China seeks military bases in Pakistan

Think Pakistan is playing both sides of the sword..........



posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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So if any Extremist groups were able to gain control over some of Pakistan's Nuclear stockpile it would not just be a threat the US/West but potentially also China. There is common ground here which both sides need to set aside their differences and deal with Pakistan's lack of willingness to go after those who are fermenting the problems within their borders and get on the ball which would also help with the ongoing conflict in Afghanistan

The US/West and China have common ground here....

Your thoughts?


There is no common ground, only a tactical ploy meant to create the perception that there is.

China can't set aside their ties to Pakistan without the risks of revealing the true depth of their involvement in Pakistan.

But it is a great get out of jail free card for China IF Pakistani nukes end up in the hands of extremists and are detonated on strategic western targets.

Hey, you invited me.

Just my thoughts, nothing more.

Great thread as always SLAYER.


But probably one I am better off not participating in.





posted on Nov, 25 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Hey, you invited me.

Just my thoughts, nothing more.
Great thread as always SLAYER.

But probably one I am better off not participating in.

P



Not at all.
All views are welcomed. Invitations were sent to those members {who although I don't always see eye to eye with} I do however respect and value their varying opinions.





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