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Dear Americans: A lesson in proper English.

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posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by arbiture
 


Not quite sure why you think there is a class/caste system in the UK. A caste system would have people born into a system where social mobility was impossible, like India. The UK has no such thing. The illegitimate offspring of a chavy mother can rise to be CEO of a FTSE 100 if he applies himself. Likewise, the son of a CEO could find himself homeless and broke.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by arbiture

Originally posted by studio500
I appreciate English & US English both by way of spelling and pronunciation.

I do wonder however how these changes came about.

Could it have been due to early perhaps slightly illiterate settlers or could it have been the result of influence from other languages?

I'm facinated by language but in the end I think the US way just adds a little idividuality which I think is cool.


I would not say the reason was because settlers were any more or less literate, but a combination of the general diversity of where most American's originally came from; someplace else. And while there is no doubt what I call an American persona, a dominant national culture, there are very distinct regional differences. And for those of you (you know who you are) who love to deride my country, and use such worn-out lines as the only American "culture" can be found in a lab petri dish, let me ask this; Regardless of if you wear blue jeans or drink coca-cola, I assure you most people on Earth not living in a cave all their life KNOW WHAT THEY ARE! THAT is the culture that has conquered the world. Not our military, or god knows our politic's, but Starbucks. For me I prefer if we do anything that is "imperial," I much prefer it not be "take over, but take-out".

Most Americans until well into the 20th century came from England, Ireland, and Germany&Italy. In that order. Keeping in mind dialects morph for a lot of reasons, our country was much larger and had many more isolated areas then say the UK. In fact in Minnesota you could hear people speak German, along of course with English, in the far western Minneapolis metro area, (say 50 miles west) and many rural areas well into the 1960s. Also Americans are just that because, we adapt to our culture by contributing to it's linguistic diversity. How and why do you think we "invent" so many new words in "our English" every year? Because we make up new words when we need to, or in socio-linguistic's the spirit "move's us". New technology and change's in society dictate what we need to do, and being creative people we just do it. And that also means regional diversity, though because our communications has become more real time, hence certain aspect's of our national-social mosaic is more amorphous then say 30 years ago it's still considerable, and typical.

Also from my point of view, and I have more living relatives in the UK and Germany then I do at home, I find it interesting there is still such a preoccupation on class, almost akin to a caste system in England as compared to the US. I noticed the same as much in New Zealand, though not as much in Australia when I lived down there for several years. (By the way I learned in my view more about my own country when I lived overseas then I ever would have imagined. I'm glad I took two years to study in Australia when given the chance. I learned not just about that country but a lot about that was an eye opener, and a gift unto itself) Needless to say the "variation" of English in Australia was, well Australian. And though spelling down under is in effect "British English" the fact that the spelling has not changed for the most part is Australia never broke from England forcibly. But just try suggesting there is no-such-thing as an Australian culture. Where ever you come from, it'll be a long swim home, if you survive long enough to try. Perhaps the reason Americans spell words more phonetically, the way they "sound". Perhaps because of the influence of so many different different language's from immigrants, and the fact we both commandeer and invent words as we feel like it, is a good sign.

Language evolves because evolution is as much a part of linguistics as bacteria, or anything Darwin was honest and smart enough to recognize, and brave enough to talk about. One thing is unmistakable. A diverse and evolving organism or society is a much more robust, and stronger, capable, compared to so-called "pure" entities.
edit on 26/11/11 by arbiture because: word-fart. Hey, it's late and I'm tired, OK?



Yes we use English spelling for the most part but it's the meaning of those words that can change drasticallly to England.
www.appliancespares.com.au...

And you must have missed the cutlure so here's an idea.

There's no formal or entrenched class distinctions in Australian society.

Australians are informal, open and direct and say what we mean. We are also seen as people who believe in the principle of giving people a fair go and standing up for their mates, the disadvantaged and the underdog.

The fact that Aussies are so fast to back each other up or stick up for a poster, regardless of where they come from, who's copping a pounding on this site would show that to you.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by arbiture
 


Not quite sure why you think there is a class/caste system in the UK. A caste system would have people born into a system where social mobility was impossible, like India. The UK has no such thing. The illegitimate offspring of a chavy mother can rise to be CEO of a FTSE 100 if he applies himself. Likewise, the son of a CEO could find himself homeless and broke.


Here's an idea. English politicians, like those of the U.S, drive around in black cars which is a sign of aristocracy, though positions are no longer birth rights. Take Australia for example where our politicians drive around in white cars.

There's a one form of caste if you know what I mean.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by steveknows
 


Er, ok... That makes no sense at all... Besides, only ministers get cars, the other 500 useless morons in the Commons make their own way to "work". Some cycle, others walk, others catch the train. What's your point?



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by steveknows
 


I never criticised Ozzy rules or anything else, nor did I defend Sherlock, just pointed out he usually adopts a rather dry, ironic style of posting which seems to have provoked a similiar response.

Never the less, what your saying is "but he started it first!" and retaliate against a whole group rather than the person, rather than just rising above it. You obviously got offended by his comments, but felt it okay to stoop to the same level and rail against others who have no beef with Oz. I like Oz!


No you didn't but sherlock did and then you had a go at me for reponding. Cut it out. Can you read what you've posted and please see the double standard you're trying place on the thread? You might actually not have use of your site but there's actually some laugh emicons in there. Also you just might be applying emglish humour to Australian humour and it is abviously you who has been offended and the fact that you take sherlock as joking and me as not most likely makes that the case.

So back off now please.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by steveknows
 


Er, ok... That makes no sense at all... Besides, only ministers get cars, the other 500 useless morons in the Commons make their own way to "work". Some cycle, others walk, others catch the train. What's your point?


Well then you obviously don't get what I mean. This thread started for fun I'm not about to do a whole page on social perceptions of a population to explain it to you.

or perhaps to make it simple England does have an up there and down here system. A system that Australian politicians try to not project.
edit on 26-11-2011 by steveknows because: Add



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by steveknows
 


Yes, I was offended by your generic attack on all English which is why I asked if we could maintain a modicum of civility.

It's one thing to laugh about how we speak and spell things, but quite another to attack a whole group of people based upon an outdated and erroneous stereotype. You wouldn't do it to Blacks or Muslims, would you?

For what it's worth, I do think Sherlock crossed the line and you're well within your rights to say so, but I think you're out of order by using racial stereotypes, which it is, smiley or no smiley. Attack the person, not the group. All you're doing is lowering yourself to his level.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 12:58 AM
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posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:09 AM
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posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by eightfold
 


What a delight! Thanks.

For one thing, I just learned that it is apparently only in America that people "could care less." Drives me nuts-- at least half say it.

Now, if he can convince everyone-- and I'll know-- I am willing to come over and show you that meat is for barbeque and not for boiling.

I only caught the worm thing at the end-- so must watch it again tomorrow to see what else I may have missed.

Give my best to the Queen.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by Chamberf=6
 


when I lived in california people used ask "what part of Illinois are you from?" Only instead of Illi-noy they would say Illi-noise...We say Illi-noy every one else calls it Illi-noise--go figure



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by Frira
reply to post by eightfold
 


What a delight! Thanks.

For one thing, I just learned that it is apparently only in America that people "could care less." Drives me nuts-- at least half say it.

Now, if he can convince everyone-- and I'll know-- I am willing to come over and show you that meat is for barbeque and not for boiling.

I only caught the worm thing at the end-- so must watch it again tomorrow to see what else I may have missed.

Give my best to the Queen.



I was wondering about that because in Australia it's "couldn't care less"
edit on 26-11-2011 by steveknows because: Typo



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by 31Bravo

Originally posted by Skittle

I speak American, not English.


Really? Can you translate the above from English to American then please?




posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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Besides the odd moronic 'we saved your 'asses' in WWII' comments which is quite frankly crap, I think this thread is a good way of having banter.

Although it seems it isn't just an English vs American thread now as the Ozzies have been ruffled about their sport and a few Canadians are pitching in to argue their ground too. And it's turned into a free for all now.

All in all a very amusing thread. I don't think any of it is personal, although it does highlight one key difference between the Yanks and Brits.

The English can rip into each other and themselves every day and still come out smiling, whilst it seems most Americans on this thread have easily bruised prides when it comes to pointing out a few things. Maybe us English are just used to a bit of banter?

Also - Less of the bragging about teaming up with the French to defeat us. We know you couldn't have done it without the French helping you, get over it.



Now if you don't mind i'm going to brush my extremely crooked teeth and complain about the ruddy weather.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:42 AM
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Oh and I hasten to add - we don't all speak like bloody Hugh bloody Grant.

If I spoke to you Americans in my regional dialect/accent - which is somewhere between scouse and woolyback (Aka Liverpudlian and Lancashire) it would probably sound like so:

'Alright mucker how's tha diddlin'? Y'alreet, does tha' want a brew?'



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:50 AM
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A story I love to tell and, occasionally, told on me--inspired by one of the comments:

I was at an Anglican grad-school with mandatory chapel.

The man beside me one semester, whenever it was his time to lead a prayer, would take on a fine proper British accent; although he was from the American East Coast. I made a too-gentle attempt to suggest he not be so affected in his manner, but failed.

He tried to convince me that, for Church, the British way of speaking was more dignified.

After a week of rolled are's his time was up and it fell upon me to lead the closing prayer.

With my best imitation of a gravely, and gutter-low British English, taken straight from some Monty Python skit, but probably more "Long John Silver" than anything, I launched into it with'n a bold an' a crass vig'r -- nary an are (arrgggh) nor an aitch t' be 'eard.

My classmate took it well, stiff upper lip and all, I suppose.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by eightfold
 


English is not my first language.




posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by 31Bravo

Originally posted by Skittle

I speak American, not English.


Really? Can you translate the above from English to American then please?



Soon to as eat a bug. I reckon I could give 'er a whirl. Which'n' parts you want'n' parsed fer ya?
edit on 26-11-2011 by Frira because: missing quote



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Originally posted by 31Bravo

Originally posted by Skittle

I speak American, not English.


Really? Can you translate the above from English to American then please?



Soon to as eat a bug. I reckon I could give 'er a whirl. Which'n' parts you want'n' parsed fer ya?
edit on 26-11-2011 by Frira because: missing quote


The bit where he spoke American. I.e the invisible bit surrounding the English language.



posted on Nov, 26 2011 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by Frira
reply to post by eightfold
 


What a delight! Thanks.

For one thing, I just learned that it is apparently only in America that people "could care less." Drives me nuts-- at least half say it.

Now, if he can convince everyone-- and I'll know-- I am willing to come over and show you that meat is for barbeque and not for boiling.

I only caught the worm thing at the end-- so must watch it again tomorrow to see what else I may have missed.

Give my best to the Queen.



I was wondering abut that because in Australia it's "couldn't care less"


As it should be! Y'all get it.



And several of my friends and I have, as an inside joke, Winston Churchill's "Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I shall not put!"

We usually quote it when one of us is asked over the phone, "Where are you at?"




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