Help with Translating Ancient Mysterious Artifact

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Just throwing one out in the ballpark, but what are the chances of the Etruscans having contact with the Caananite traditions? In particular Phoenician...

Curiosity has me off on a tangent with theoretical theorem, none the less perhaps I'm off too far and wonder what those of you think.

Let me quote Wikipedia, here

"Phoenicia" is really a Classical Greek term used to refer to the region of the major Canaanite port towns, and does not correspond exactly to a cultural identity that would have been recognised by the Phoenicians themselves. (Wikipedia source)

The Etruscans were a fairly short lived civilization, and they lived on the west side of Italy. They had an influence on Roman culture but they don't seem to have influenced the powerful Caananite civilizations.

Yes there is a bit of a time line set off for these two cultures. The Etruscan seems to have gotten organized around 800 BC while the Caananites were busy around 4,000 BC and are thought to have been overwhelmed by others around 1100 BC. The possibilty of trade between the proto-Etruscans and the remnants of the Caananities is a possibility of course, perhaps even the inclusion of some post-Caananite survirours into the Etruscan melange. Since written records are rather sparse about that time and on that subject we are left to speculate

Glad to see the concept of a possibility is being entertained. Focus on diverse spectrum of the era ands its cultures seems to me our best chance.

That connection as slim as it may be, for one reason or another was my starting point.

reply to post by ADVISOR

Hello...Is there anything I can do to keep this thread moving forward? We have had some very interesting discussions thus far...with some promising directions posited. However, I still feel that we are not much further in achieving our initial goal of unravelling this mystery. I know DRUID42 had some very indepth analysis and research throughout, as have many others...but perphaps some fresh eyes and thinking are needed; does anyone know of any additional linguistic, archeological, historical...or even metaphysical expertise and/or opinion they can bring to this discussion? I will be happy to supply as many additional photos as may be requested.

I know there is someone out there who can translate or decipher this enigmatic artifact.

-TAT

reply to post by IAMTAT


i very nearly forgot this. over a scotches i asked this question but i could only remember the middle script. what i got was

its an allographic script so probably dacian or thracian or "trojan" because it seems to say iasio [aka iasion] of coriti or of attica. iasio was the savior, the healer, the prophet. husband of demeter, father of plutus the greek god of wealth. blown to bits by zeus.

don't know if thats a help or not

reply to post by Parta

Dear Parta,
I'm reminded of Abraham Lincoln's reply on hearing the report that U.S. Grant was a heavy whiskey drinker:
“Tell me what brand of whiskey that Grant drinks. I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals.”

Thank you for your taking the time to attempt a translation on this; your's appears to be the first success thus far. (I'd be happy to buy you a fine scotch if you can translate this piece.).

Please don't stop if you have the time and inclination to continue a translation. It has been my suspicion throughout this analytical ATS process that what we were dealing with was possibly some form of Tracian or archaic Etruscan.
Regarding your reference to Iasion/Iasius, would you mind pointing out which portion of the script relates to this?
-TAT

Originally posted by IAMTAT

I'm reminded of Abraham Lincoln's reply on hearing the report that U.S. Grant was a heavy whiskey drinker:
“Tell me what brand of whiskey that Grant drinks. I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals.”

Thank you for your taking the time to attempt a translation on this; your's appears to be the first success thus far. (I'd be happy to buy you a fine scotch if you can translate this piece.).

Please don't stop if you have the time and inclination to continue a translation. It has been my suspicion throughout this analytical ATS process that what we were dealing with was possibly some form of Tracian or archaic Etruscan.
Regarding your reference to Iasion/Iasius, would you mind pointing out which portion of the script relates to this?
-TAT

i'll see him at the end of march if he gets his permits. success is not assured.

the scotch was glen breton and the only reason we'd drink. to prove a point. the next beverage i will share will probably be this nasty plum schnappes he makes in his kitchen that gets too stinky to drink if you try to fly it somewhere.

there are only a couple of pieces of real dacian text existing and being a young learned man he has seen it in his learning years. he is no expert as noone is but a few things are known. it's allographic meaning if there are 2 o's in one word, they will use a different form of o each time like the maya. they use logograms for places and people. peoples names will usually include a logogram of "i am". he didn't judge it to be allographic, i looked at it on his advise and i believe it is.

it was quite a few minutes before i realized he thought i meant thracian chersonessos not crimean so he went on about kutels which is an ore mortar with two nubs. they can be really huge or fairly small for carefully processing gold. very finely made stone bowls exist in the region from the late neolithic onward and they have survived beautifully. i will find a picture for you.

anyhow the inscription i could remember was the innermost of the concave. i assumed the i was an i and not a crack. if it is a crack then scrap iasio and if its dacian good luck finding someone to send scotch too.

reply to post by Parta

With Iasion supposedly being the first priest of the Mysteries of Samothrake, would you think it possible that this might be a pagan ritualistic piece associated with early Elusian rites?

reply to post by IAMTAT


i think if you were interested you could plumb the depths of iasio beyond samothrace but his activities with respect to the cult no doubt required a bowl.

over time who knows what people thought or advertised it to be.

oops. forgot the bowl from near crimea

reply to post by Parta


I'm sure you're right, Parta. Thank you so much for sending your thoughts...as well as the link.

reply to post by Parta

An afterthought: What do you make of the Iasius/Attis/Jesus relationship? Could Iasio be another example of Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces?

Originally posted by IAMTAT
reply to post by Parta

 

An afterthought: What do you make of the Iasius/Attis/Jesus relationship? Could Iasio be another example of Joseph Campbell's Hero with a Thousand Faces?

i'd have a hard time seeing dardanus in relation to jesus

I hope you read this. It seems to be something similar to Dalecarlian Runes. It started in Sweden. A sort of special language for the maker to put on there products. Like furniture and especially stone bowls. This went on from the 16th to 20th century. Not a mystery by a long shot but one hell of a conversational piece. I hope I helped you.

I know it's been awhile,but I think I'm closer then most on this.

Vincan symbols.

The Vinča symbols, sometimes called the Vinča script or Old European script (also Vinča signs, Vinča-Turdaş script, etc.) are a set of symbols found on Neolithic era (6th to 5th millennia BCE) artifacts from the Vinča culture of southeastern Europe. The symbols are mostly considered as constituting an instance of "proto-writing"; that is, they probably conveyed a message but did not encode language, predating the development of writing proper by more than a millennium.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by kdog1982


Hi again,
It's funny, I was researching Vinca just a couple of days ago...I can't recall what I saw that inspired that particular search.
I agree; Vinca is a great candidate...possibly with Phoenecian or archaic Greek factored into the mix, as well.
Certainly, earlier research keeps drawing me back to that particular region.

I really wish the discussion had not come so abruptly to an end on this particular thread (I found it fascinating and educational), but I sure appreciate your bringing some new life to it with your insightful comment.
-TAT

It's hard for me to make out all of the characters, nor do I speak any of the languages that it could be, but the script appears to be either Brahmi, Aramaic or Greek (or something from that general sphere of influence). It's most likely some form of Greek

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Sandrokuptos

Thank you for your thoughts. As it stands now, I'm still am not certain which language this is. There are many similarities to Vinca, Phoenician, Archaic Etruscan, as well.

Does anyone know anything about Balkan-Danube Script? I see many similarities.

The problem with speculation on the symbols is that we do not have a region or a time period. Many of these symbols will mean different things in different geographic areas, as well as cultures and societies, and as I said, the particular time.

If it was from China, then it is not likely to be runic, etc...I haven't read through all of the replies, but some symbols look Greek to me, and that was the overall impression I got when first looking at the artifact. But, it doesn't appear to be Greek. I have no clue.

reply to post by JiggyPotamus

I was originally told by the antiquities dealer/owner in Germany that the piece came from the Chersonnes dig in the Crimea.