Fearless Humanism - The Occupy Manifesto, page 2

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reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:21 PM by Fevrier

You just pretended I didn't just write a page-long post explaining to you exactly why, how, and to what ends the SCIENTIFIC NOTION of PRIMARY PRODUCTION is not hippie crap and is the basis of THE ECONOMY, and also one of the main points of my manifesto.

That, my friend, is a rare thing, pretending a whole page of text didn't happen.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
reply to post by Fevrier

I'm not the one adding the "hippy crap" which by the way I have no problem with in terms of an ideal, but in terms of human nature and reality, I'm only pulling it from the works you have written. Now instead of addressing the obstacles I have presented in terms of you're manifesto you treat me as an ignorant and insult me. Now have I done that to you? No I treated you as an intellectual equal and simply was trying to engage you in conversation. But from they way you continue with the snide remarks of my intellect I can tell there is nothing to be gain from talking to bushwa self proclaimed free thinker like you.

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:29 PM by inivux

Don't listen to worthless, defeatist, pessimists like Mcupobob. Let them wallow in their own self pity and repressed hatred for the world and the so called reality they live in. They will be left behind in the metaphysical sense.

He means well, but is so hopelessly lost in the old ways of thought, that he will probably never find his way out. That is his choice, just as it is his choice to spew the usual insults of "new age hippy crap", as some sort of childlike defense mechanism akin to covering his ears and screaming "I can't hear you".

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Many people are waking up to it every day, and I think at it's core the OWS movement comes from the same place you are coming from, whether or not they know it.

S&F for your incredible articulation and understanding of how things should be, and just how far we have deviated from the virtuous path.

edit on 24-11-2011 by inivux because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:32 PM by Mcupobob

reply to post by Fevrier

Do you mean the manifesto you have presented in the OP? Wasn't that what we where talking about? Are you pretending that I was pretending that we weren't talking about that? Interesting argument. Of course production is the means of a economy, thats why we have the GDP. Of course you're Marxism light manifesto wasn't about production but about the evil of money and competition. You can dress it up with fancy words and "science" but that isn't true its all political ideology.

I disagree with that Ideology, now we can bicker back and forth and by the way you have been using caps lock to simulate yelling at me that talks have broken down. So sir or madam I'll agree to disagree, and leave the thread for you and others to pursuit in talking and expanding upon. I've already given my opinion and thats all I wanted to do.

Besides I'm a little drunk right now and don't care to argue much.

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:37 PM by Mcupobob

reply to post by inivux

I consider myself a realist but also a optimist thank you. I feel the humanity can achieve great things, but in order to reach our potential we must observe reality of the situation and find solutions that within that reality that can bring us closer to the idealism of a utopia.

Of we can just use the school of thought of see no evil hear no evil and just pretend that it doesn't exist and hope it goes away.

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:42 PM by Fevrier

reply to post by Mcupobob

Let me quote myself from my early post, for your benefit:

"You're just randomly adding thought-lines to something that already addressed them. And you're the only one using hippie terms.

Now, to put things into perspective, this isn't about living within means - what is that? And if anyone argues against living within means, they are simply misguided from the start and the discussion is moot.

It's about understanding the true means of production - biological production, human production, social production, mental production - and then designing fully functional societies that non-destructively channel those means into highly productive flows. What is a flow, you may ask. It's a simple term designating the evolution of matter from the biological to the mental, within a society, as it passes through human and social design factors.

Yes, this is your basic hippie crap, I know.

And again, I must tell you to go read up on primary production. It's on wikipedia. And with a third grade thinking level you can miraculously deduce - and this would be miraculous, since most politicians and economist aren't capable of this wondrous feat - that there is no economy without functioning, productive ecosystems, and there are no ecosystems, life, or food, without primary biological production. That's why it's called PRIMARY.

The term economics comes from Greek, and means "rules of the house". But what is the house? Is a house "the house"? Is money the house, is the state, the whole of society? Or is the house the entire biological and mental system we inhabit, of which money is simply an abstract product whose purpose is the easing of design. Design of what?

I'm not gonna teach you about trade and social ties and all that, but it's enough for you to understand that it's all related to, and based on, and LIMITED by primary biological production - hence that is the basis of "the house". Now, if you put money ahead of design, that is, you put it ahead of "the house", of understanding "the house", then eventually you destroy the house, and all the loud-mouthed dummies such as yourself, who like to speak of hippies and winning arguments and being realists, are destroyed when the house is destroyed."

If you cannot read, tell me, so I can stop addressing you.

edit on 24-11-2011 by Fevrier because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:43 PM by Fevrier

reply to post by inivux

Thank you for the kind words.

I'm not making fun of him, or insulting him, which I could do, but I am trying to address his (non-existent) points and get him to at least contemplate a simple biological reality.

It's shocking that he keeps ignoring me but piles on the "hippie" talk.

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:45 PM by inivux

reply to post by Mcupobob

The solution is a complete paradigm shift in Human thought. It is improbable, but possible.

That means it starts with people like us. Normal, everyday people.

The solution does not start with attacking dissenting, positive opinion with the same regurgitated insults so called "realists" have been using as their weapon for ages.

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:51 PM by Mcupobob

reply to post by Fevrier

So instead of accepting my offer you decided to repeat yourself? Everything you said is nothing but tag lines and talking points without meaning.

Now to repeat myself in a slower manner because I suspect you are metal handicap.

T-H-A-T-S W-H-Y W-E H-A-V-E T-H-E G-D-P.

Production is the only means we have a economy and has only been the means of a economy in fact.

e·con·o·my/iˈkänəmē/Noun:

The wealth and resources of a country or region, esp. in terms of the production and consumption of goods and services.

Its the very definition of a economy. I suspect you should go back to school son.

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 08:55 PM by Fevrier

And what is the basis of production, you absolute imbecile?

If you see empty talking points in my reply, I'm afraid I have to stop talking to you.

I would advise you to quit while you're ahead, but you were never ahead, and I suspect you have it in you to come up with 2 or 3 more drunken replies.

edit on 24-11-2011 by Fevrier because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 09:02 PM by Mcupobob

reply to post by Fevrier

So instead of replying to me directly you decided to hide and insult me again in the thread. Nice. The means of production is through the worker, the worker producing the idea or product of his employer wither it be government, venture capitalist or nature herself.

Now as I recalled I was the one who said to agree to disagree. Anyways since I'm done here and won't reply again. You're idea is dumb and just retreaded ground with no forethought.

edit on 11/24/2011 by Mcupobob because: Still smarter than you when drunk

reply posted on 24-11-2011 @ 09:11 PM by Fevrier

For anyone else reading this, what this genius right here doesn't understand, despite a clear and rather in-depth explanation given earlier, is that any social entity - whether you call it worker, government, product or idea, has as its basis of existence primary biological production.

Now, I am not very fond of putting things this way, a more intelligent expression would be to say that if we are to speak of physical production and life in a biological sense, and this includes the idea of an economy, then the undeniable and unavoidable basis of this is primary biological production, without which life could not exist on this planet.

This is not simply a manner of speech which can be avoided in practice - rather, the misunderstanding and misuse of primary production leads to destruction of life and, if we are to speak in strict physical economics terms, it cripples and reduces the maximum potential production.

In yet other words: maximum production in any given system, no matter what its social structure is, can only be achieved through the best design of biological systems, and this means design using primary production and potentiating primary production (through human intelligence, what else).

edit on 24-11-2011 by Fevrier because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 25-11-2011 @ 08:03 AM by phishyblankwaters

reply to post by sonnny1

I might not believe in OWS,but bravo for publicly trying to change humanity's needs. This gives me hope that maybe those in OWS have a inkling on changing the world for the good,without political mantra,or can I dare say,old political ideology's.......

Indeed, I think it's a clear indication that even in today's beaten down apathetic world, some people are still dreamers and idealists, and better yet, willing to actually protest for change, even if it's misguided or fails, it is a clear indication that if you feel things are "wrong" you aren't alone, and if enough people start investigating the reasons things are "wrong" the more people you'll have willing to ask or demand change.

And since we like to pretend we live in democracies here, that eventually means change will come.

reply posted on 26-11-2011 @ 05:59 PM by The Old American

"The" Occupy Manifesto? So this is official, then? Does this supersede the other...3? 4?...manifesto/declarations? I just need to know which one truly is "THE" one so I can be sure to not have any expectations from the "other" manifestos.

/TOA

reply posted on 27-11-2011 @ 12:04 AM by ThirdEyeofHorus

eco-socialism....I'm not surprised that comes out of the OWS thinking. And yes there is some anti-capitalist thinking in that essay.

reply posted on 17-1-2012 @ 10:45 AM by Fevrier

let's bump this up

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